Flatlander
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Posts posted by Flatlander
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By the time Thanksgiving rolled around we had put in around 12 days of scouting trying to locate mature rams. During November our friends had ramped up their efforts too. We invested several days in the northern part of the unit looking in areas that we’d seen sheep before without much luck.It was weird, places we knew sheep should be just didn’t have them. We turned up quite a few coues deer, and even got some of them to know by name and habits.
Coming into the week leading up to the hunt we had shifted further south and started looking in some of the rougher country.One day my oldest son Hunter and I slipped into a spot where we saw some rams years ago to see if we could turn anything up. We found two rams, and one of them looked pretty good from 1.5 miles away. They were remote and in the steepest stuff, but at least we’d found a decent ram. And he was with ewes. So we had hope he might stay put for a while.
The day before Thanksgiving Nash had morning practice and then we went out looking at box canyon. It didn’t take long for us to find a ram that Sheldon had found a week earlier. The big chip ram was definitely the most mature we had seen. He was fun to watch, and pretty easy to find. We found another ram high on the mountain that day, and just before dark, one single full curl ram all alone on top of a distant cliff.
We had heard reports that a big ram had been seen in that country and we were hoping this was him. We were able to relocate him the next day with the other sheep. He was a beautiful full curl with perfect horns, but probably only 6 years old. We liked him, but were hoping we could turn up something on that next level.
Nash and I stayed the night on Wednesday and put in a half day of scouting some of the roughest country I’ve ever seen before Thanksgiving dinner Thursday. Moving around in those mountains is miserable. Roads take huge winding loops and everything is rocky and nasty. We don’t turn up another sheep that day and went back to whip together some turkey and potatoes so Momma didn’t give us heck.
On Friday I decided to go check some country we hadn’t been into yet where we used to see sheep. Lots of miles, on foot and in the side by side didn’t produce anything except a forky mule deer and a lot of sheep cactus (barrel cactus that were eaten down to their core, we had actually watched sheep circle around cactus and eat and eat until cactus were just a stub off the ground).
On the way home I got a text from a guy who had been helping us out and he let me know that a rancher in the unit had seen 5 rams dogging a ewe back near where we had seen the chip ram. Unfortunately, our current #1 and #2 rams were on the move, the good news was we at least knew what direction they headed.
Saturday morning, the day before the hunt started, the crew started rolling in. Gary (Wish2hunt), my buddy Mike, myself all headed out in the AM to find a target for December 1.
Mike headed back where we had seen the ram with ewes weeks before. Gary started up Box canyon and I went down to look where the rancher had seen the 5 rams.
It wasn’t long before I was calling Gary on the radio to let him know I’d found the rams and could use his help sizing them up. Soon, my neighbor showed up with some of his army buddies and they had another ram located, way up high. Mid-morning the radio crackled and Mike let me know he had a big ram on the other side of the river. He climbed a big peak to get signal and sent a pic of a ram we started calling candy cane. He was a young, thin horned ram with his lamb tips that had to be close to 40” long on one side. It looked like a giant dall sheep. Mike kept an eye on him for the rest of the day while Gary, Jake and the army boys kept track of the other rams.
I spent a total of 9.5 hrs watching the group of rams and evaluating each of them. There were two rams that were definitely better than the others. But I have to say that sheep are one of the hardest animals to judge you can imagine. I did my best to figure out what was what and knew that intimately Nash was going to have to make the call.
Nash had practice Saturday afternoon so I wasn’t able to pick him up until after dark the night before his season opened. He joined up with Mike, Gary and the army boys in camp and everyone was eager to start comparing rams. Soon Trphyhntr rolled into camp and we had to get some ear muffs for Nash 😆. (Not really, everyone was super cool and treated Nash like a rockstar). We all shared our pictures and talked it over with Nash. By the time we were done we had it narrowed down from 7 rams down to 2 or 3.
Opening morning we had more eyes and moral support rolling in. Brandon (Denogean) and his family met up with us and one of our neighbors ditched church to come get in on the action. With 12 sets of glass and expectations maxed out we came up with a plan for the morning.
Rich and Gary did a quick run up the canyon to check for any new rams that may have shown up, while the rest of the crew posted up on a couple of ridges where we could get eyes on the high ram and the group of 5 (which was down to 4 at this point).
As the sun broke the radios crackled and the callouts started. The group hadn’t moved an inch all night but the high ram was down off the peak into a cliff band. If those sheep worked down through those cliffs they would become very accessible and we would probably need a better look.
Meanwhile the other rams were happily munching cactus and lounging in the sun. The world was our oyster.
Soon Rich and Gary were back with nothing to report but a couple of ewes. The high ram was moving back up out of the cliffs toward the peak again, which left us with the group from the day before. We were able to identify one of the group as the chip ram that Sheldon had located a few weeks before. He was definitely the biggest body and was starting to get our attention. A plan was put in place to close within 300 yards and put this ram down within sight of our full viewing audience. Mike joined Nash and I while we worked to close the distance. However as we moved in, we heard on the radio that the rams were once again on the move. They started moving to the south and the sitters could only get occasional glimpses of them. We climbed the hill above them and worked down the ridge line glassing the base of the hill below. A mind blowing game of cat and mouse ensued, the spotters were pulling their hair out, telling us the tan was RIGHT below us, within archery distance, but we couldn’t find them. Three different times Nash set up on the edge of the bluffs while we tried to look directly below us, without any luck. We caught a glimpse of sheep moving out from the hill 200 yds down the ridge. One ram dropped into a wash and another moved out into the open. Nash got lined up while Mike and I looked him over. It was a 4 yr old ram, definitely not the chip ram we wanted to shoot. We whisper yell at Nash not to shoot and kept working down the ridge.
At this point Trphyhntr has had enough. He grabs his tripod and runs a solid mile around the base of the hill to relocate the rams and help us out. On my way! to find out. The two big rams turned and and had headed back up the hill and were now just 70 yards from us. In an instant, it all came apart. I saw the ram, he saw me and it was off to the races. There was no chance to get Nash set up before the rams were barreling down hill and across the canyon. I felt like throwing up. I was disgusted that we had blown it. Nash just stared. Mike was tracking the sheep in his binos and as they started up the other side says they are 475.
The reality of his statement snaps me back into the moment and I get started helping Nash set up. We try the tripod, it’s not working out, so Nash throws out the legs on his bipod and lays down. He has a perfect shelf and I am amazed as he calmly tracks the rams in his scope. There are three of them together and they have slowed to a walk now. I get a range, it’s 542, and dial the scope while smash stays locked in. The first shot connects, but they run and now we are trying to make sure we are on the right ram as the three all change position and move across the hillside. They move about forty yards and I click the scope an extra 1/4” MOA to compensate and tell Nash to send it. It’s just over his back. Bad adjustment, they hadn’t moved as far as I thought. I range again, correct my error and Nash calmly tracks in the scope. The rams stop and he confirms, “the one on the right”, Mike affirms and I calmly say “kill him”. The sound of the bullet connecting with muscle is unmistakable but we can’t see the hit. The chip ram goes 40 yds and falls, struggles to stand and finds his final resting place under a Palo verde tree on a beautiful bench overlooking his domain.
It’s not how we planned it, none of our helpers heard it (suppressed rifle) let alone saw it. And it was over before we could even tell them what was happening. But soon, they start showing up on the hill. Each taking his own personal time with the old sheep, and the young boy. We tell the story, laugh, hug and when no one is looking I cry a little as I appreciate the magnitude of the moment. All these good men, here in this place, helping show a boy how to be a man.
We hike out together. It’s long enough to make us appreciate it, but we are at camp by dark. We celebrate and meet up with the others. They join us for root beer. Nash calls his mom and his grandpa, and we went home.
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1 hour ago, elkaholic said:Who here really thinks hunting with a crossbow gives a hunter an unfair advantage over a compound bow.?
From a blind or tree stand, way more lethal than a compound.
Spot and stalk, chasing bugles, etc. way less effective.
On drought years when everyone is sitting water, yes I am sure A LOT more deer are getting killed with crossbows than years when water is everywhere.
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What is the reason for banning anything in hunting? Because the more we can exclude others from participation, the more we can tailor hunting around our own interests, preserving our own opportunities at the expense of others.
Yes, a crossbow is easier to use than a compound bow. Yes, a compound bow is easier to use than a traditional bow. That’s why compound guys want compounds excluded. Same reason trad guys want their own season.
The simple fact is that as the population of AZ grows, we will have to find ways to further limit the % of harvest. That can be done in a lot of different ways. Nearly all people will look at others before being willing to change themselves. Crossbow's and compound bows are an easy thing to look at and point to for exclusion. But there are other ways to limit efficacy.
What would happen to success rates if we didn’t allow sittIng water? On drought years, archery success rates are way higher than when it’s abundant.
I don’t have strong feelings about any of the weapon types. But I do think that limiting more and more weapon types or groups of hunters is just death my 1,000 cuts. We can keep trimming back what is allowed, but the growing population will just keep pushing the demand. So we need to work together to develop solutions that simultaneously increase wildlife populations and control efficacy.
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Looking at things, he could draw most the early rifle hunts. Lots of options out there.
10, 3C, 22, even 23N is right there. You guys should go have an awesome hunt.
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12 hours ago, Phil Carr said:I have a hunting partner that has 26 points for elk. Can someone tell me how many people have 26 points or more for elk? Also how many people dropped off the list last year?
We are just curious when he might be able to draw an early rifle bull tag. He would like to hunt unit one but is open to other suggestions. I realize this information is out there but I am just finding it difficult to find.
I would be most appreciative of any help a member can provide.
Thanks Phil
Last year everyone with 26 drew. He would very likely draw if he applied. The 27 muzzleloader hunt would be a sure thing.
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1 hour ago, wildwoody said:But I can't use my cross bow
1 more year
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16 minutes ago, wildwoody said:Dang I got 27
100% for the archery hunt
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57 minutes ago, idgaf said:I am all in for making hunting retro. Traditional bows and muzzys and Fixed power scopes for general hunts.
This would give the animals a chance grow to maturity.
Shoot you hunt that way anyway!
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1 hour ago, PRDATR said:There was a lot of push way back when it was originally proposed as many knew it was bound get abused and had the exact same opinion. But here we are. It gets abused just like signing over a tag to a child so daddy can feel good and post pics all in the name of hunter retention.
😘
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I ate like dogshit but still got my 5.6 tempo miles in this AM.
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GoHunt says 7 for the Peaks hunt area and 8 for the unit wide hunt.
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You bring up some valid points. Posting them here won’t do much to move the needle. You will need to go to send your comments to the commission and probably show up at the commission meeting to make your voice heard.
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Love my Ollin
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9 hours ago, trphyhntr said:Not reading that wall of cope. Didn’t throw anything out there except documented evidence.
So you read it or you didn’t?
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32 minutes ago, trphyhntr said:Personally no, all my friends are straight.
but 3 beer bellied country boys from outdoor life could do it in the wind. It’s time to stop the cope.
and dude are allowed to use airbows here with the permits, right? Blowing through elk at 100 and sticking in trees at 130 behind them. It’s over.
if you can’t shoot a bow apply For general and use a crossbow.
they’re legal For muzzleloader also right? Idk.
Maybe just check one out before you start throwing stuff out there. We have an R10X and my kid who isn’t an expert but also isn’t “beer bellied” couldn’t shoot those kinds of groups practicing for 30 min 3-5x per week.
No idea on airbows. I know people hate them but I haven’t ever seen one in the field. Seems like having to carry compressed air around would be a major limitation. Are these things really having a negative impact on the industry?
Aren’t the trad bow guys making the same claim about compounds? It’s the same concept, just a different measure on the spectrum. Everyone wants their own methods included and nothing more.
I don’t know what the right line is. I hunt with a vertical bow, so no skin off my back. But I also feel for guys who can’t and understand why they want to stay in the game. That makes my odds worse, for sure, but I at least understand it. Seems like you could just eliminate sitting water and take away a lot of the advantage right there while also keeping the efficacy down. 🤷♂️
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37 minutes ago, trphyhntr said:Nah. Dudes are shooting 3” groups with crossbows at 100 yards. It’s entitled guys that want access to prime hunts but can’t use the required equipment
I don’t know if that is true or not. The hunters I have hunted with weren’t getting those kind of groups. But they weren’t like world class shooters either.
Do you know dudes getting those kinds of groups?
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To be honest, I’ve been on plenty of hunts, archery and crossbow. I would never choose to shoot a crossbow over a vertical bow if I had the choice for a spot and stalk hunt. Carrying a tripod and that thing around, trying to cock it and hoping it doesn’t harpoon you in the mean time is horrible.
For sitting in a blind, they are great. A lot easier to shoot. But if I am capable of shooting a vertical, that’s the way I am going.
Kind of seems like a bunch of sour grapes from dudes who think a crossbow is something it isn’t.
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6 minutes ago, AZBIG10 said:I don’t care for this. I’m an archer at heart tore my bicep and tricep ligament 2 years ago still not back into archery. My only option is shooting a kids bow. my next archery hunt coming up should be lope (13 points) Shooting a kids bow to 70yds is my only option. And I’m not putting in for rifle lope and not sitting water. Spot and stalk archery lope is the best hunt out there. I don’t think I would ever pick up a crossbow but don’t close the door on it becuase other people abuse it
Submit comments to the dept. Right now they are hearing one side of the equation.
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Always getting it done. Nice work dude, congrats!
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11 hours ago, trphyhntr said:I will always be in a sheep camp providing moral support and beers
Nothing moral about the support you provide
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1 hour ago, Ernesto C said:I have 7 BP give me your honey holes
It’s gunna take more than 7 pts and at least a couple drinks before I give you any of my holes
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Did some threshold running today. 3 miles at 7:40 pace. One mile warm up and cool down. 5.6 miles by the time it was done.
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Landowner Tags
in The Campfire
Posted · Report reply
Legislature wants to create landowner tags for deer, elk, antelope and … oryx?? Time to stop fighting over crossbows and get involved. Call your state reps.
https://legiscan.com/AZ/text/HB2588/2025