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Flatlander

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Posts posted by Flatlander

  3. Posted · Report reply

    1 hour ago, MMACFIVE said:

    Many of the current salt sites were well established before Russ started re-suppling them. Are these sites exceptions? Of if I simply add the latest block to a site is it now mine?

    Good question and I don’t know. That’s something everyone’s got to sort out for  themselves. I do know that I wouldn’t plop down a blind 30 yds from a salt I had nothing to with and think that was going to go over well.

    All these dudes pretending that anyone is arguing something else is nonsense. Their feelings for Russ makes people justify their desire to take advantage of his work. I have no great affinity for him or anyone else up there. But I sure do know what will and wont keep me up at night.

    • Like 1

  4. Posted · Report reply

    17 minutes ago, HuntHarder said:

    no distaste here.  I've had good buddies pay him money for buffalo hunts, buddies not pay him to join the co-op and by all accounts he is a great guy.  The fact that you can not see the 12a salt situation as a special situation tell me that you have a bias.  Everyone that hunts that hunt or has helped on that hunt see's what Russ has created.  The fact that he has so many salts along a fairly small stretch of GC boundary does NOT entitle him and his clients to exclusive hunting rights.  It's not like he is doing something revolutionary and everyone is piggy backing off of him.  IMO putting a salt site in the middle of BFE and then walking up on hunters at your salt site is bullshit.  However, I am sure it happens.  The 2nd guy to get to such site has to leave without causing a scene.  It is just the right thing to do.  

    Russ has created a situation where the Buffalo literally leave the park for a short time and hit one of his numerous sites.  To think that you are not allowed to hunt along his salt line is naive at best.  He MIGHT have 2-5 clients each hunt and maybe 2-5 willing to be part of his CO-OP.  IF he has all 10 at his sites, that still leaves 50-60 sites available to hunt.  To think those sites are off limits is absurd.  He has literally conditioned the cattle up there to hit his salts over the last 10 years.  This hunt has turned into a real SHHIIITTTT show to say the least and issues like this will continue to arise if he tells his clients to try and make other hunters leave.  Just a matter of time before one of them gets in a fist fight.  Just because Russ feels like his personal ETHICS trump someone else's, does not mean he gets to rule the 12a/ GC boundary.  

    I have 0 bias for anyone here. If you’d like to chat about my personal feelings toward all the parties, I’m happy to do so privately. I frankly don’t care who’s side I am taking or who disagrees with me. But I do respect another person’s work. Whether Satan himself or anyone else put that salt there, it took time, effort, money and sacrifice. The fact that so many people feel that they should be entitled to those efforts simply because they show up first one morning is absolutely baffling. 

    I don’t contest that anyone owns that boundary or any other piece of public lands. But to set up a blind, 30 yds from a salt someone else put the time in to establish and monitor is BS. The only reason to be there is because of the salt, which somebody out there. The opportunity was created by that person.

    I sure as heck wouldn’t show up at a trail cam and take pics off someone else’s SD card. It’s no different in this situation.

    Established water sources (with or without salt), saddles, roads, etc. all belong to the public and first come first serve makes sense there.
     

    Other guides and DIY hunters can easily throw a salt out and put up a cam. They can hunt any tank in that unit. Walk the boundary. Drive the highway and wait for them to come out in the open. Those are all options, why the heck would they feel the need to go sit somewhere that they someone else established and then get all sideways when that person shows up. Yes it’s legal, still chicken shoot.

    This is the same argument that people use to justify stealing trail cams. It’s on public property, it’s illegal to leave on FS, therefore it’s abandoned property and I am entitled to take it. Technically it may be true, but that doesn’t change the principal of it.

     

  6. Posted · Report reply

    40 minutes ago, HuntHarder said:

    Except you.... I mean he "hauled" all the salt.  Everyone knows the deer don't hit water, it was definitely all the salt he hauled that got the deer going there.  Don't be lazy, find your own waterhole to haul salt to. 😜

    The salt lick in question is not on a water source. There is nothing else there to make a Buffalo come to that spot other than the salt. That is the case for about half of the salts there. But if you have been there, you know this.

    The guys pretending that a salt block next to a public water source is the same thing are the ones building a straw man.

  7. Posted · Report reply

    3 minutes ago, runningbird said:

    I think next time I get drawn for archery deer on the Kaibab I'll put salt at every pond in my area.  Apparently that make the pond my own private hunting spot.  You can drive by 50% of the water holes up there and see an un occupied blind or treestand.  It seems some of you think that implies its off limits to everyone else that didn't place the salt or stand?  

    No one said that.

  10. Posted · Report reply

    1 hour ago, trphyhntr said:

    You pick the unit, a spot on public and there’s a blind with nobody in it. You don’t sit that spot because of that? What About a trail cam, leave that spot 

    It’s not about the blind. If someone else hauled water or salt out there to create an opportunity, I am not going to set up a blind and then try to beat them to the spot they created. 

    Other than being to lazy to build my own salt, why would I need to do that? If I want to sit salt, I will put out my own. End of thread.

    • Like 1

  11. Posted · Report reply

    13 minutes ago, HuntHarder said:

    With only maybe 10 hunters... He gets to reserve spots on the NF for his hunters?  GTFO with that non sense.  If thats the case, im gonna put salt at each waterhole in my otc unit and then make whoever shows up to that water leave.  You see how dumb that sounds?

    Not even close to the same thing. The only reason he put the client there was because of the salt. There was no water, saddle, fence crossing, etc. No matter how early you get up, it’s never cool to take someone else’s work.

    Lazy.

  13. Posted · Report reply

    44 minutes ago, trphyhntr said:

    No. I wouldn’t be surprised he was pissed, at himself for being late. I’ve had salts, If I showed up to one and a guy was there I’d leave and I’d be there earlier the next day if I wanted it bad enough. It’s really really simple. 
     

    The topic at hand, if you read the azgfd report zac posted I’m not sure how anyone could say Massey was at fault 

     

    I don’t blame Massey. He sat a salt his guide told him to sit. As a guide, to Place a client on a salt that another hunter/guide put out is just lazy. Being a freeloader and using someone else’s efforts to run a business is deplorable. The only reason there is a blind there is because there is salt. So the opportunity only exists or is greatly increased because the salt is there. Chad could have gone up and dropped his own salts out there. He could have put one right where his truck was parked. I just don’t get why anyone would think that it’s ok to use someone else’s work that way.

    I agree, first come first serve is the accepted etiquette and the letter of the law. But I’d still wouldn’t sit in another man’s tree stand, lay in his duck blind, pass shoot birds going to someone else’s setup, or otherwise cheat someone out of their effort.

    I’m really surprised how many people think it’s cool to that. 

    • Like 1
    • Haha 1

  14. Posted · Report reply

    6 minutes ago, trphyhntr said:

    You pick the unit, a spot on public and there’s a blind with nobody in it. You don’t sit that spot because of that? 

    So if you came across a man made salt lick in the woods, with a blind next to it, you’d set up a blind right next to that and sit it? No water, no tank, just a salt lick. That’s the spot you would pick and would be all surprised if the guy who made it got pissed?

    • Like 1

  17. Posted · Report reply

    1 minute ago, HuntHarder said:

    Have you ever been up there on the hunt? 

    Do you think he gets to own all (I think) 80 of them? 
     

    It is kinda like showing up opening day to your blind on a waterhole and a guy already sitting in his blind on a water hole.  Do you think you are entitled to that hole because you set your blind up first?  

    1. Yes, I have.

    2. If he took the time to put out 80 salts, he and his clients have the right to hunt over 80 salts. Do the work, get the reward.

    3. If I hauled the water to that spot, then yeah, dam right I am going to hunt it. And yup, I am going to be pissed if some other dude shows up and plops down a blind.

    I really don’t get all the bitching. If one guy can put out 80 of these things why don’t other people just put out their own? There is nothing that special about salt and a camera.

    Several people on this site have done this hunt successfully without mooching off another man’s work.

    • Like 1
    • Great Buck! 1

  20. Posted · Report reply

    1 hour ago, HuntHarder said:Anyone with any kind of courtesy knows that its first come.  No one gives a goat's dick who put the salt out.  Russ has put out a million pounds of salt, but doesn't own them.  

    Anyone with any kind of courtesy doesn’t sit someone else’s salt. That’s some low, lazy BS. If this was a whitetail and that happened, they would be roasted.

    The fact that Chad is trying to profit off the work of another man’s back is stealing plain and simple and it tells me everything I need to know about his character.

    Zac didn’t need to stay there. He didn’t need to confront that asshole. That should have been Russ. It should have started and finished with the paid professionals who started and prolong this dick measuring contest. The hunter’s were just pawns in their childish rivalry. But that could have gotten real ugly, real fast.

    • Like 1

  21. Posted · Report reply

    Shockingly Heffelfinger follows the same logic that Newberg and Rinella do that somehow miraculously influencers have no impact on hunting pressure or opportunity loss.

    Ironically he was plastering pictures all over Instagram from the Meateater and Newberg Christmas parties.

    Nice to know that our PR dollars are being put to good use.

    • Like 1

  22. Posted · Report reply

    I listened. I really like Matt’s point about social media leading to hemorrhoids.

    Seriosuly though, a lot of good points out there. I find it baffling how these influencers refuse to acknowledge that their productions lead to hunter crowding and loss of opportunity. I also didn’t realize previously that Pitman Robinson dollars were spent by adjacencies on advertising. That makes me want to throw up.

    • Like 3

  23. Posted · Report reply

    5 hours ago, yotebuster said:

    Dang.  So where do you guys draw the line with property rights?  
     

    Ok.  So just 50,000 acres pieces of PRIVATELY owned land?  That’s the only ones you want the government to blackmail access out of the owner by “shutting down” hunting on it?!?  
     

    The epitome of government overreach is me telling YOU what you can and can’t do on your own land.  
     

    Either lobby for change in corner crossing and then strap your boots on and hike through it,

    1. Private property rights end at the property line.

    2. I don’t think anyone is contesting property rights. What is being contested is the rights to the wildlife on the property. If the owners of the ranch don’t want hunters on their ranch, that’s fine and it seems AZGFD is willing to accommodate that. Owning the dirt or the grazing rights doesn’t entitle anyone to the wildlife.

    3. I didn’t see anyone propose saying what they could do on their land. However, there are plenty of laws about what we can and can’t do on our own property. The government tells me when I can have a fire, how tall my house can be, where I can put it on my lot, etc. All because my choices, even on my property, impact many other people. This isn’t any different.

    4. There are lots of people working on corner crossing right now. 

    • Like 5
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