Red Rabbit

They are talking about the San Carlos Apache rez.

Marv, Welcome to the site. Bunny loins on the barbie sure taste good. Will your possible article include your favorite recipe? Doug~RR

Devin, Here is a bullet test of various 150 grain 30 caliber bullets. RR http://www.gunsandhunting.com/bulletshootout.html

I will be up there, but will be shooting for fun this year. I posted some info about FS wolf closure in the thread down in the non-hunting trips section. Doug~RR

For those heading up there, a small area northeast of the rez, NF, and 260 junction is closed to camping due to wolf pups. Also remember that 273 is barricaded at the NF boundary going from Sunrise to Big Lake. The wolf closure area with map and fire restictions are now posted on the Apache-Sitgreaves website. http://www.fs.fed.us/r3/asnf/news/2007/200...trictions.shtml "An area near Greens Peak on the Springerville Ranger District that is adjacent to Forest Road (FR)117 and is bordered by Highway 260, FR 117A, FR 117C, FR 8526, and FR 8577. FR 117 is open. This closed area is called the Beehive Spring Wildlife Closure and it should re-open in mid-July"

Flagstaff — As fire danger increases, additional fire restrictions go into effect on the Coconino National Forest Friday, June 22, 2007 at 8:00 a.m. Campfires—including charcoal fires—are prohibited across the entire Coconino National Forest, including developed campgrounds and picnic areas. Pressurized liquid or gas stoves, lanterns and heaters meeting safety specifications are allowed. Also prohibited: Smoking, except within an enclosed vehicle or building. Operating a chainsaw. Operating any internal or external combustion engine without a spark arrester. Operating a motor vehicle off National Forest System roads, except when parking in an area cleared of vegetation, and except in the Cinder Hills Off-Highway Vehicle Area north of Flagstaff. Welding. Using an explosive. Fireworks are always prohibited on national forest lands. Violations are punishable by a fine of not more that $5000, or imprisonment for not more than six months, or both. These restrictions will remain in place until enough precipitation is received to decrease fire danger. For further information about fire restrictions on the Coconino National Forest, visit www.coconinoforest.us or call 928-527-3600. The latest fire restriction information on public lands across Arizona can be found at http://gacc.nifc.gov/swcc/ or by calling toll-free 1-877-864-6985. At last weekends 3D shoot, they we requiring us to park nore more than 10 feet off the road to camp and had to rake pine needles from under the vehicle. RR

Many say to get the Double Bull Matrix and don't look back. Look for one with a material that does not have a sheen like polyester, has a dark interior, and is taut so it does not flap in the breeze. RR

I sent this e-mail in today: Sirs: I have added up application and permit numbers for the 2006 WT hunts to help analyze and support my opinions regarding the hunt guidelines. My feelings are that people will put in for what they would like to hunt for their first choice, and what they would settle for their second choice in order to have a tag and hunt. Third through fifth choices are almost moot choices as not many permits remain in the second round of the draw. The department uses this same first choice rationale to allocate archery vs. rifle hunts and bull vs. cow hunts. Permits have been shifted to the November and October hunts and these will be considered "opportunity" hunts for the sake of discussion. December hunts will be considered quality hunts. 15,345 permits were issued in 2006 for the Oct/Nov opportunity hunts. 1875 permits were issued for the December Quality hunts. In other words, 89% of the permits were allocated as opportunity hunt permits, and 11% for quality hunt permits. For the Oct/Nov hunts, there were 10,097 first choice applicants for the 15,345 permits. For the quality Dec hunts, there were 10,474 first choice applicants for the 1875 Dec permits. In other words, 51% of the applicants applied for the quality Dec hunts and 49% for the early opportunity hunts. 51% of the first choice applicants would like to draw for only 11% of the tags. 51% of the applicants would like a quality trophy hunt over an opportunity hunt. 10474 hunters applied for only 1875 permits, for a mathematical draw percentage of 18%. 10,097 first choice hunters applied for 15,345 permits for an overall draw average of 100% (more permits than applicants). The percentage of hunters applying for a quality trophy WT hunt (51%) (and in my mind saying they prefer a quality hunt), does not coincide with the survey results that showed that about 35% said harvesting a trophy was more important and 65% said having more frequent opportunities to hunt was more important. Actions may speak louder than words if one considers the number and type of applications versus the survey results. I realize that having 51% of the permits in Dec will not result in a quality hunt due to crowding, and the buck population could not support such a shift in permits to December and still maintain an age class of quality WT. But I do feel the analysis of applicants support the concept of having some WT hunt units managed for quality rather than all for opportunity, as I have mentioned before. The proposal to reduce the number of December whitetail permits to 5% or less of the total goes against the demand by applicants, and also against the fact that most October and November hunts approach a 100% draw anyway. Hunters that seek opportunity can make these hunts a second choice on their applications and get to go deer hunting nearly every year. I would recommend maintaining the current 10% December tag allocation Declining buck:doe ratios are another concern. The whitetail ratio in 1946 is published as 66:100, but declined to near 24:100 in ten years ago and was given as 36:100 in 2005. The desire to maintain current harvest rates does not seem wise in the face of this overall decline, increasing human population, access issues and continuing drought. Arizona does not have enough deer, elk, turkey, sheep and antelope to satisfy the number of hunters. It seems the game populations are decreasing (aside from elk) and we sportsmen must realize that hunting will be limited. Arizona has had a high level of quality and I hope that the game populations will not suffer, and this quality that many value, perish in the department’s quest to supply opportunity. Regarding the junior hunts and hunter recruitment, I support the increase from 2 to 3% of the permits. If increasing the number of permits 50% still does not help the youth draw a tag, how about an increase to 4%? And finally to archery. I am an avid archer and have been a board member of Flagstaff Archers since moving to Flagstaff in the early 90’s. I have mixed feelings about placing the archery deer hunts under a draw. However, due to the low hunt success by individual archers, I would not like to make the draw an either or situation regarding weapon choice. I support placing the Kaibab on a lottery, simply to reduce the number of hunters, as it is often a frustrating experience. Perhaps a lottery among OTC archery deer permit holders for archery deer hunts (in units like 12, 13, 17 where the total deer harvest and hunter numbers are significant) could be implemented. This would still allow archery deer in other units and the application for the rifle draws. This lottery would limit hunter numbers in specific units, and not pit rifle against bow and have a detrimental effect on the archery community/industry like reportedly happened when Utah went to an archery draw. Doug Koepsel Flagstaff, AZ

Jim White had the Vortex carbon fiber tripod at the 3D shoot this past weekend. The tripod was tall enough to stand behind and stiff enough to use a spotter. the legs are adjustable for different angles. I believe Jim will be at the Sunrise shoot this weekend iffin one wanted to check out some equipment. http://www.vortexoptics.com/tripods/view/vortex_summit_cbx For lightweight heads, consider Jim Whites head, Outdoorsmans 2-way head for over $300, or the relatively light 1.1lb Bogen 700RC2 fluid head. RR

Ready for the "Summer Velvet Tour" and giving away front row seats at the meadowlands. Doug~RR

Nice pic Darren. Like the club nubs. How long were you at the watering hole before he visited? RR

Save your 7RM brass as you can use it to easily make 257WBY brass.

The Kachina Boyz Club has grown to 10 for a siesta in the meadow this afternoon. Antlers have grown also. Looks like a couple will become worthy of the September archery chase. Same bull as above. Doug~RR

good laff Sorry ya missed the elk salami I brought to the CW.com BBQ at Marshalll lake though. Lance"s daughters thought that they grow tasty from up in unit 9. RR

Lance, Not many coues left in 23. I think that SunDevil may have taken the last big one out two years ago. Doug~RR

Both November and December seasons have an equal number of 2 weekends, but the week after Christmas does give many additional vacation days not on a weekend. They are proposing that the Dec WT season start Dec 12 in 2008 and run to the end of the month. Seems to be a week longer than present. Would be good for the 5% chosen. But the success would go up, and then more Dec tags could be shifted to the earlier seasons as a result.

Tony, I prefer the early archery elk season since you can call, chase and intereact with the bulls. It creates a much higher level of enjoyment. Yes, I can (and have) sit a water hole and be rather successful, but calling and chasing is more enjoyable and less boring. Kind of like spring turkey vs fall turkey. For coues, a big plus to me in favor of the December season is the lower number of hunters in the field. Something about glassing more hunters than deer on the opposing hillside, or being in a race in the morning to get to a glassing spot before another party of hunters, or having hunters go through your glassing area and possibly spooking the deer out, or you feeling you are walking into someone elses area and screwing them up. The most deer I have seen have been on a November hunt, but would like to see them in an undisturbed state. Two years ago, I was sizing up some antlers on 2 bedded bucks about 700 yards away until a couple of other hunters walking below them sent them fleeing. I also wonder about the success in December being greater because the hunter effort may be greater since it is a December quality hunt, and not just that it easier and more bucks are supposedly running around. In looking at the 2005 data for unit 36C, 276 hunters spent 769 days afield for an average of 2.79 days/hunter in the 3 day October hunt, 289 hunters spent 1114 days for a 3.85 days/hunter in the 10 day November hunt. 73 hunters spent 434 days for an average 5.95 days/hunter in the 15 day December hunt. Comparing the November and December seasons, the average hunter spent 55% more days afield, but the season was 50% longer. The success was also increased 80% from 31% to 56%. Was this increase in success due to more bucks being out in December, or hunters hunting harder/being more dedicated in December, or hunting 50% more days? (as an aside hunter success in the 2005 October hunt was 44%. Comparing the October with December hunt, the ratio of days/hunter to % success gives a 15.8% success per day hunted in October (44%/2.79), and 9.4% success per day hunted in December (56%/5.95). Maybe the hunting in December really is not easier? Perhaps it depends more on the weather that weekend. Doug~RR

for me, no for 2c mulies and no for 27 coues. I am on the NM site now if you want to give me you application number RR

Tony, I had added up some total numbers from the 2006 bonus point analysis. For the Oct & Nov Whitetail hunts, there were 10,097 first choice applicants for the 15,345 permits. For the quality Dec hunts, there were 10,474 first choice applicants for the 1875 Dec permits. In other words, 51% of the applicants applied for the quality Dec hunts and 49% for the early opportunity hunts. 51% of the first choice applicants would like to draw for only 11% of the tags. 51% of the applicants would like a quality trophy hunt over an opportunity hunt. 10474 hunters applied for only 1875 permits, for a mathematical draw percentage of 18%. 10,097 first choice hunters applied for 15,345 permits for an overall draw average of 100% (more permits than applicants). Doug~RR

They want the last 4 digits of the ssn entered. Or the application number.

I just got to enter my name dob ssn, hit search data base, and the page went to "Cannot find server, page cannnot be displayed" AAARRRRGGGG

Looks like you have a prime suspect.

During the Phoenix/Mesa meetings, did they say how the alternative management units would have their coues permit numbers altered by going to up to 30% of the harvest in December? Did they say what the proposed number of permits might be for any units if they go to 4 coues hunts and reduce the number of December permits to less than 5%? Did they say anything about possible confusion by having units go in and out of the draw for archery deer from year to year? Did they give an estimate on number of permits to be issued for archery Kaibab and compared to what the number of hunters are up there in recent years? If hunter recruitment is an issue, why did they up the number of youth tags from 2% to only 3%?

Looking to see yall up here. Look for Rica, she'll be easier to recognize than me. Remember that the Coconino NF is under fire restrictions. "As of Friday, June 8, 2007 the entire forest is under Stage I Fire Restrictions. [News Release] [Forest Order 04-07-03-TF and Map] This means, no building, maintaining, attending or using a fire, campfire, charcoal, coal, or wood stove, except within a developed recreation site; no smoking except in an enclosed vehicle, building or developed receation site. The use of gas stoves, lanterns and heating devices are allowed, providing they meet the fire underwriter's safety specifications (the device must have an on-off valve). " Doug~RR

The Northern Arizona Archery clubs Flagstaff Archers, Granite Mountain Archers and Rim Country Bowhunters, will be hosting a 3D scene shoot on the weekend of June 23 & 24. There will be 45 target scenes with multiple targets at each scene. The location is at Willard Springs, 1/2 mile west off exit 326 on I-17 (14 miles south of Flagstaff). Feel free to give me a call for more info: Doug @ 928-525-9804