Red Rabbit

Handloaded, the 115 BT out of the 257 WBY and the 130 BT out of the 270 WSM should both give 3200-3300 fps. Both bullets have about the same BC and SD, thus will drop and drift about the same, with the edge going to the 257/115 . Using the same weight rifle, the WSM will have about 16% more recoil with these loads. If you're limited to factory ammo, the wider selaction is with the WSM. If you handload, you've eliminated the higher cost and limited selection of WBY ammo. The new 25 WSSM is equivalent to the 25-06 (300-400 fps behind the factory WBY loads). Scott, That Kimber Montana in 270 WSM and Kevlar stock would make a nice, light coues rifle.

I think you will find that just about anywhere you go in the unit, you will find lotsa deer and a good supply of bucks. I would suggest finding a canyon that you can hike in at least 2 miles and leave the majority of hunters behind and have a more enjoyable hunt. Start hiking at 5 am and be in position before first crack o' light. Stay out all day till dark. Wear out that Petzl. Good luck. Doug/RedRabbit

You're killin' me Lark. Too many laughs to start out the morning. Got any gift certificates left over from USO for stocking stuffers? Doug Redrabbit

Using my factory original 1x Bushnell eyeballs and no tripod, I could only see the deer in the first thumbnail. Had to break out the Leicas (I mean click on the pic to enlarge it and put on the reading glasses). Good job Amanda. In the field, I keep looking for that buck standing broadside in the sunlit, wide open right in the center of the field of view. Go figure I never see any deer . This is also good training for "Where's Waldo?" Doug/RedRabbit

Hidden agendas? Is this the same wilderness proposal that incorporates power companies, transmission lines and $$$$ ?

I concur with what Ben said. Remingtons published muzzle velocity and ballistic coefficient may be optimistic. Using their data, to be zeroed at 250, you'd need to be about 2.3" high at 100 and about 22" low at 450 for 7000' elevation and 50* Were you able to shoot out to longer ranges, like even 250 to check the zero, or does the rifle range only have 100 yards? If the local range doesn't have longer distances, try to find a safe spot with backstop in the desert. Two other possibilities. 1)The rifle may impact differently with the bipod than from a bench, and 2) your scope may have unknowingly been knocked out of kilter. What kind of bpod? If yours is portable, and not an attached model likr the Harris, resting the barrel on the bipod, (rather than the stock forearm on the bipod or other surface), will often cause the bullet to fly high. Get back to the range and check it out so you're not haunted at night by missing that great bull. I assume you went across the canyon and looked for blood and hair, or bullets in the dirt. Sometimes those big bulls don't even flinch or appear to be hit. Bret may be right about shooting over him. If he was downhill at a 30* angle, the effective horzontal distance is only 390 yards and your bullet would have dropped only 12-13". So by holding high what appeared to be 8", yes you may have hit the dirt above him. For about the price of three boxes of shells, you can buy an inexpensive chrongraph like the Shooting Chony Alpha $79. Hope you get drawn next year so you can put your tag on him. Doug/ RedRabbit

I started using a yucca staff about two years ago and really liked the extra stability coming downhill or walking sidehill. I wrapped the staff's handle area with some soft, sticky, sweat-absorbing grip tape for tennis racquets. I will try the rubber tip. Yucca has a great strength/weight ratio; I can't believe how sturdy it is for being so light. This past November on the coues hunt, I tried a regular hiking pole (contoured cork grip, wrist strap, shock absorbing, adjustable length, carbide tip, $29) from Popular. It saved me from one slip/fall for sure when a rock rolled underfoot. I missed the extra length of the yucca staff, though. My friend's knees were getting sore, so I offered him my pole, but he declined saying that it would just be one more thing to carry. I never noticed it as a burden, but rather as an aid to stabilility. In fact, I think they save energy rather than consume extra E. Doug/RR

Josh, Looks like that coues' momma was bred by a certain bull in unit 8 . Speaking of elk, how did your hunt turn out? Ours was tough in 9, with a couple bulls passed and none taken. Fortunately, I never got stuck in the mud, but my friend did and went out to find him at 10 pm when we realized his tardiness could not be due getting an elk. Doug/RR

Have a good one! If ya can blow out all those candles before the fire department arrives, you'll be fine hoofing (not huffing) up those mountains in 23. RR

Scott, If hunting were baseball, you'd be earning millions batting .333 That speedgoat is a dandy. I'm in your batting shoes also. Got a hit with mule deer in Utah, but walked back to the dugout with archery cow elk and Nov. coues. I'll be ready for those mearns between Christmas and New Years. Doug/RedRabbit

Brian, Glad you got a buck of character. That big one will be waiting for ya in January. Doug/RedRabbit

While glassing for that elusive bruiser last weekend, I had the opportunity to observe 15 other hunters walking around the mountains. What amazed me was their equipment, or lack thereof. Out of the 15, only 2 had a daypack and 2 had a fanny pack. A couple were carrying water bottles in their hands. Only 4 had binoculars around their necks. Only two wore camouflage. Two had white cowboy hats, two others had white caps, one wore whitish grey pants and jacket, one a white t-shirt, another a faded/almost white jacket, and a few white tennis shoes. None wore any blaze orange. Three groups talked loudly enough to be heard half a mile away. None glassed with a tripod. Two had knives bordering on machetes on their hips. One had a bipod attached to the rifle. Did many of you observe the same? Opinions? Explanations?

Hillbilly, Sounds like your hunt had the full spectrum of events, culminating in the right decision. Well told. RR

Another scope that you should consider is the Zeiss Conquest. Many feel that it is brighter and sharper than the Leupold VXIII for comparable $$$. I put a conquest on my new Kimber after four Leupolds on my other rifles.

I was down in 36c. My friend Russ spotted a buck chewing a branch above and then paw the ground. Sounds like he was making a scrape. You may be right about the pre-rut activity. We thought it a little different in that most of the bucks we spotted seemed to be with does, and not by themselves.

Looks like you got the spiker's older brother. Congrats. I enjoyed reading the story on AZ sportsman. Well done photo. Doug/RR

I was able to hunt Friday, through Sunday morning. Long time friend, Russ, and I drove down to a new area Thursday afternoon, and were greeted by a locked gate and no tresspassing signs. We were able to talk to the rancher, who told us of a round about way into where we wanted to backpack into. Friday morning, we awoke and hiked into a place we had only seen on the topo map. Right off the bat after setting up the tripod and 15's, I spotted four spikes making their way up a ridge to a saddle, when 11 does and fawns came over the saddle. About ten minutes later, a 3 point feeds over the saddle. We glass him over for several minutes and decide he's about 80-85". We look elsewhere and across the canyon I see a wide 100+? buck about 1200 yards away walk aver a saddle, followed by two other bucks, one tall 3-point, and the other a small 2 or 3 by. Some does follow them and then start to feed back over the saddle. So we load up the packs, huff it up 800' close to where the bucks were, only to peek over the rise and see an empty hillside. We continue above the saddle, and see a group of 4 hunters walking around the opposite mountain, then one lets off three shots. On the other side of the saddle are 3 other hunters, who let out a barrage of shots at the deer, unseen to me, that runs across above them. No sound of a bullet smack. So much for locating the tall buck and the 3-point wider than the ears. We head around the peak we are on, in the opposite way, jump two does and get to a point to glass the opposite ridges and slopes. Later that afternoon, Russ spots a bedded 3-point buck, and it's in the perfect position for a stalk and get a 100 yard shot. Russ tries to convince me that the buck is begging to be killed, but we decide it too scores in the low 80's with short beams. I go back to the first saddle hoping the wide buck will have eluded the mornings hunters and will feed back out. My optimism is rewarded by an hour hike out by Petzl light. Saturday morning we go back to the saddle with the wide buck. I stay to glass the saddle and surrounding slopes, while Russ continues to the other side of the peak. I spot 6 does and a forky. Russ spots 27 deer and the same small 3-point. I later walk around to join him, and I spot 3 small bucks and 7 does on a north facing slope. I walk back to the original saddle, and glass a forky and a couple does before darkness falls. Sunday morning I spot the 3 bucks and 13 does by the saddle, but they were spooked by hunters wearing white shirts and talking aloud. All in all, this is more deer than we've spotted on a hunt that memory can recall. Close to 50 total each day. We only wished we could have been at the right spot at the right time to have an opportunity at the wide one. That and a December tag. We saw quite a few hunters hiking around, more than we usually encounter, but if we went any further in, we would have been on the Hohokam rez. Russ and I are helping on a unit 9 elk hunt next weekend, so we both have some tag jerky to dehydrate this week. Doug/RedRabbit

A friend and I were hunting together this weekend. We saw a little over 50 coues on Friday and again about the same number on Saturday morning. Only saw one deer each Sat afternoon. Out of the fifty, there were 6 branch antlered bucks and 6 spikes. This is probably the most deer we've spotted during each day of hunting.

Nice bull Chris. I really like how the brow tines curl upward and have well-polished tips. Looks like you have yourself a spot at the end of the rainbow to hunt. Thanks for sharing all these pics and stories. Doug/RedRabbit

Good looking pup there, Scott. Maybe around Christmas I'll be able to head down south and let my wire hair find some birds with your Britt. Doug/RedRabbit

Most of my shots have been from 200-300yards, some shorter, some longer. I like my 300 WSM for its versatility. I might suggest using a stouter bullet for the higher impact velocities, like a Nosler Partition, Accubond, or Barnes TSX, not for their penetration, but to limit the diameter of expansion. This weekend, I hope to unleash a 150 TSX on a coues buck. I also agree on stalking closer as the terrain permits and still remaining undetected. I haven't figured out how to float mid-canyon, yet. Good luck to y'all, whatever you shoot. Doug/RedRabbit

Brian, You must have really cussed out the weatherman, because the weekend is now predicted to be partly cloudy with a slight chance for showers. I was bumming this morning, but the attitude's improving as the forecast gets better. The pack'll get lighter also with less Gore-Tex. I was ready to take a heavier synthetic-stocked rifle instead of the lighter, walnut-stocked Kimber. Doug/RedRabbit

I will be backpacked into the Babo's, so don't put me in the head count. Have a cold one for me. Doug/RedRabbit

Here's a thread on another forum about taping the muzzle. http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/s...&gonew=1#UNREAD Wish I had done so last fall on my elk hunt. It had rained the day before the season, so fresh tracks were easy to detect. One morning, I had the pack on and rifle slung, reached inside the gun strap to buckle the sternum strap, and watched as the rifle slipped off the shoulder, muzzle first into the mud and then scope onto a rock . Nothing left to do but load em back up, drive back to camp where the cleaning kit/rod was, clean out the mud plugged in the barrel and check the zero. I went back to the same draw that afternoon and saw two sets of tracks/no elk in two miles. Doug/RedRabbit

I too am planning on backpacking to avoid the crowds and maybe find an older deer. I have two backpacks on the living floor right now, so will have to see about whether I can fit the gear into the smaller, more comfortable pack. I got back from the shooting range yesterday, and have a great load for the French Lady launching 150 TSX's at 3250 into tiny groups . The 10 day forecast has a 30-50% rain chance for next weekend Don't forget the electical tape over the muzzle. Doug/RedRabbit