Outdoor Writer

But likely the same number of hunters applying for permits, i.e. without already buying a license. And that likely indicates that we can substract that same 100K from the current license sales as those who apply and do not get drawn. I kind of chuckle a bit when I read all this stuff about too many hunters in the woods because I recall the early 1980s where there were more than twice as many deer permits as there are now and so many fewer hunts. I don't remember many complaints about it then, however. Of course, that was before the measuring tape became a main focus and the majority of deer hunters were just happy to, well ...just happy to get to hunt.

Direct from the USFW reports which are used to dole out federal funds to each state: The # is the total of those that had paid hunting licenses. And obviously those totals from 2017 on included hundreds of NR who applied for permits yet never set foot in AZ. I'm not poistive, but I think the jump from 2016 to 2017 coincides with the requirement of buying a license just to apply. But from there on, license sales have gone down, just as it is the case nationwide. 2016 -- 215,444 2017 -- 324,553 2018 -- 305,214 2019 -- 310,392 2020 -- 304,789

FYI: In 2019, there were 27,354 tags sold but only a total of 19,407 archery deer hunters were surveyed . They killed 1,676 mule deer and 872 whitetails (2,546 total) for a 13% success rate. The highest success in any one hunt was 18% in Unit 1. Returned survey cards totaled 5,612. for all hunts. View the entire 2019 Archery Deer Harvest.

Nice. That is one heck of a hole, too. Even Stevie Wonder could follow that blood trail. 😂

RE;#1 I think Jim was referring to a time when several units required reporting when they were deciding whether to put them on a draw basis for archery. I have little to quibble with the rest other than the fact that the current method of determining harvest stats has been used for eons here. For the most part, statistical analysis of mail-in surveys has worked just fine as long as the data base has been large enough and built in biases -- liars & no response -- are accounted for, which they are. AGFD has the same sources available from OTC as they do for permitted tags -- the # of tags and the names and addresses of every hunter, -- which are used for mailing surveys cards if needed, just like is done for firearms hunters. The only wholly accurate deer harvest stats come from the North Kaibab gun hunt check-outs, which was the case waayyyy back when I started hunting there in the early 1960s. But once again this is a biologial issue, unlike limiting NR tags, which again is a social issue. And I think cutting all tags because of the crowds was the main gist of this thread that seemed to go off the rails. 🙄

Though a bit dated (2008), this is a good read and still mostly applies today. It's an article from WILDLIFE VIEWS written by noted AGFD deer biologist Jim Heffelfinger. Changing Seasons

Everything above indeed has to do with it being a biological issue. The answer to 100 deer/500 hunter scenario is 0 chances unless every one of the 100 are bucks, and of course the size of the "area" also matters. Both of those things will affect the success rate. BUT..let's say for the sake of discussion it really is a concern. To avoid a potential problem, wildlife managers might shorten the season or reduce the number of hunters overall by a draw, etc. Now, we get to the social engineering issue, which comes into play when limiting NRs access to tags. See the deer don't give a rat's pizaazz where a guy lives, nor does it matter in regards to the BIOLOGICAL issue above. If we cut the access from 500 to 25 tags, it makes no difference biologically whether the 25 tags are residents or nonresidents.

I've been following along on this thread, resisting the urge to comment. But it's seems a bit confusing determining what problem needs fixing. Is the idea to save the deer from getting killed as in "manage an already struggling deer herd," which is a biological issue, or is it to manage NR hunters so residents can each have his own mountain, which is a social engineering issue? So,,,,how bad is "really, really bad?" Like how many is too many? Of the "amount," how many were actually NRs? An 800% increase sounds mind boggling until one realizes that could mean instead of one tag, the joint sold 9. And of course, other circumstances such as other sources of tags being closed down, etc. could have contributed to a switch in venues. Brings to mind the oft repeated adage: "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." 😉 And now I'll go back to lurking.....

Good show. 👍 Here ya go...

Sometime in the middle of this month with a deadline of Feb. 9

Gotcha. 👍

Posted all the PapPal info in the private message thread titled "bass book."

Nice!

The text below is an exchange I had with several members of the Parker Bros. Collectors Assoc. (PRCA) forum in June/July 2011. This is my initial post there: Several years ago, I inherited a 10 ga. from my grandfather when he pased away. Although it all seems to be original with matching SNs on the barrels, forearm and receiver, it's unfortunately not in pristine shape. It was likely rusty at some point because it appears the outer metal was perhaps polished clean with maybe a wire brush or steel wool. There are no actual scratches but there is some pitting left. The hammers, firing pins and triggers are intact and work just fine, as does the lifter release. Here's a quick description: Exposed hammers, lifter-type action and 35 1/2" (36"??) Damascus barrels. It has a small silver shield behind the tang and minimal engraving -- just scroll work, no birds and such. So I guess it's one of the lower grades produced. The buttstock is walnut with a very nice figure to it. It has a silver metal butt plate. Slight crack between tang and the shield and the checkering has been worn down a bit. Forend also is cracked along the entire length except for about an inch at the front. It is still in one piece, however. The SN is 18884. Other numbers I can find are a Patent of April 19 (or 12), 1876 and the number 9761 under the barrel. There are also a 4-1 and 3 stamped where the barrels fits to the action. The Patent on the buttstock is March 16, 1875. I looked at the list of SNs here and see it was seemingly made in 1880. I've pretty much resigned myself to continue using it has a decoration in my trophy room because of the sentimental value but wonder as to the real worth of it. Any guesses? ******* According to the Serialization Book compiled from Parker Brothers stock books, your gun appears to be a rare Grade 2 36" Damascus steel barrel ten gauge lifter action Parker with straight grip stock, unfortunately in abused condition. ******** ME: Thanks for the info so far. So "rare" means what -- i.e. like how many were made? ******************************** Yes, rare, like not many made in that configuration. It makes Parker guys like me just go crazy. There were 12 ten gauge Grade 2 lifter Parkers made with 36" Damascus steel barrels according to our Serialization Book reference. There were 13 ten gauge Grade 2 lifters of all barrel types made with 36" barrels from a total ten gauge lifter Grade 2 production of 1854. There were 21 Grade 2 36" barrel lifters made in all gauges. These totals were extrapolated by the authors, but not neccesarily accurately. **************** THIS IS AN AN AUCTION LISTING FOR A SIMILAR SHOTGUN WITH 32" BARRELS. Parker Brothers Under Lifter Hammer Shotgun 10 Ga Damascus Twist Barrels For Sale from CoGun Doctor |Positive feedback: 100% View | Verified Seller| 111 Completed SalesView Sellers Items Free Shipping on orders over $50! Transform Wooden Track Systems To A 3rd Dimension Description: Parker Brothers Under Lifter Hammer 10GA Shotgun with 32” Damascus Twist Barrels I Am selling this gun as a "NON SHOOTER" Because of the Damascus Twist Barrels Serial Number 11844 MFg 1879 Here is a real gem for PARKER collectors. But Understand, that by bidding you acknowledge that because of the DAMASCUS barrels this is considered a non Shooter . . I know that many people use these old guns with black powder loads with no problems, but that should be a decision by you and your gunsmith.. Gun is in poor to fair condition . As you can see the barrels retain some of the original, tiger tail, DAMASCUS pattern. The Lock-up is tight ant bore is 50% This is a fine collectable with excellent eye appeal. This is an ANTIQUE so NO FFL is required, it will ship directly to you Shipping will be $35. I will need the buyer to provide a Driver license with shipping address on it as proof of age . 3-day inspection privilege. Inspection period begins the day of delivery to you . It is your responsibility to inspect the gun in that time frame. In the case of a return, buyer pays all return costs. This does not cover items damaged in shipment; you must save the damaged shipping box and file a claim with the appropriate shipping company. All items must be in the exact condition that they left us in.. Returns accepted only if merchandise is not as advertised , pictured or grossly misrepresented . I am Not a expert on this Firearm I have researched it and I have disclosed anything I could find to correctly identify it and included pictures of the markings . If I have mis-stated anything any corrections will be welcomed To prevent misunderstandings please be sure of what you are buying before purchasing don’t hesitate to ask questions or request more pictures. You are also responsible for making sure you can legally purchase this gun in your State of residence I am verified to ship to California. No sales Internationally We accept cashiers check or money order only If I have your E-mail address I will notify you that the firearm has been delivered. ***************************** The 'lifter' was the first model of the world famous Parker shotgun built in Meridan, CT. It was called 'Lifter' due to the fact that opening the action required one to press - lift - the bar on the bottom of the frame ahead of the trigger guard. This model was in production from 1870 until replaced with a top lever model in the 1880s. During its period of production aproximately 4,500 Deluxe 'Grade 2' 'Lifter' guns were built. This Parker cost $80.00 new which was quite a high price when an average Winchester rifle or Colt SAA cost in the $25.00 range. Early Parker shotguns were prized by their owners, the vast majority saw heavy usage over a long period of time and very few have survived in excellent original condition. NOTE: This long gun is being sold as an antique collector's item only, not as a shooting firearm. Buyers are fully responsible for abiding by their local firearms regulations. It can not be shipped to NY, NJ, DC, IL, or any location where Antique long arms are not fully exempt from firearms regulations. It can only be shipped to an FFL dealer in those locations. I will not ship outside the USA. For the benefit of foreign buyers I will ship to a fully licensed firearms export agent of their choice within the USA.

Yeah, I'm sitting pat right now until I get an idea of the real value. I'll be posting some better info in a bit.

So now for the shocker; according to the experts on the PBCA site, this gun is one of the only 12 made in this configuation.

I replaced them now with the full images, so go back to that message on the previous page.

Nah, not a problem. The images were uploaded to the Parker Gun Collectors forum, a perfectly legit site. But they might have the image relay blocked.

Okay, hang loose and I'll upload the full images...

Inherited from my grandfather and shown in this photo here several times over the years gone by. Of course, the powder horn was just for effect since the gun wasn't a muzzleloader.

The winner.

Is this ^ code for something?? If so, I'll have to dig around in my junk drawer to find my decoder ring. 🙄

No reply from you in my PM area. The title of the thread there is 'bass book." Click on your notification in this, 2nd in from right.