Outdoor Writer

Even if one doesn't have max points, it's still possible to get drawn in the 20% pass and get two chances. It might be rare, but here's how. Let's assume for hypothetical purposes, that there are 150 with max points. We will also have to assume a good numbger of them are NRs. During the 20% pass for sheep, there is total NUMBER OF PERMITS for ALL units and NOT for each hunt #. So they start by looking at the lowest number and check both the 1st and 2nd choices. Obviously, many with really low numbers are going to get lucky early on. BUT.... as the process continues fewer of those remaining will get a permit for two reasons: 1. Their No 1 & 2 choices are NOT for units with permits remaining 2.The NR cap has already been reached for either the total or for the units they applied for. So once those with the highest BP total are no longer relevant, they move to those with the next highest total, and so on through the list until they have an app for any remaining permits in the 20% pass. In the case of No 1, those apps are issued a new number and go to the 1-2 pass. In the case of No. 2 the apps for any NRs who cannot possibly draw a permit any longer because of either the total cap or hunt cap are eliminated from the draw completely. So it's possible for a NR with MAX points to NOT be included in the next pass.

Probably out hunting elk illegally........ http://www.dailycamera.com/news/boulder/ci_22303248/mystery-solved-boulder-police-admit-officer-shot-elk

Looks like I'm the only one in Glendale so far. Do I win anything?????

There aren't more tags than allotted sold. Reply I posted in the other thread you started on this same topic: This occurs when permits are drawn during the normal process then not actually issued. For example, someone applies online with a CC, paying only the $7.50 app fee. But when the drawing occurs, either the credit limit on that card had been reached, the card has expired or the charge is rejected for some other reason. When that happens, it kills the # for that permit and a new one is added above the allotted number. So if there were 500 permits initially, the next one for that incident will be 501.

>>They don't track how many tags are left by the number printed on the tag...not sure why...but it's a quirk in their system and they're aware of it. They appear to keep track of total tags issued after the draw in some other way.<< This occurs when permits are drawn during the normal process then not actually issued. For example, someone applies online with a CC, paying only the $7.50 app fee. But when the drawing occurs, either the credit limit on that card had been reached, the card has expired or the charge is rejected for some other reason. When that happens, it kills the # for that permit and a new one is added above the allotted number. So if there were 500 permits initially, the next one for that incident will be 501.

The situation you experienced would be very common with javelina permits because there are so many available for each hunt, and overall, there are literally a few thousand in the 20% BP phase. So when the 20% pass takes place, which uses the total BPs each applicant has, the process continues until ALL of those tags in the 20% set aside are gone or until every person with even ONE bonus point has gone through it. Obviously, they start with those with the MOST points and then go down from there. For your specific situation, you applied for two hunts that had 240 permits (20% of 1200) in the 20% pass for EACH hunt. You didn't mention how many BPs you might have had, but since your application automatically provided one and you might have had one or two for HE and loyalty, they would have likely looked at your permit even if there was ONLY ONE permit in the 20% pass for ANY hunt #. So...when your number in order from the lowest to the highest came up in the BP level you're at, they looked at your first choice, 5092, and all those permits -- the 240 in the 20% BP pass set-aside-- were already spoken for by those before you with more BPs. They then looked at your 2nd choice, which still had one or more of the 240 permits available. You got one of them. Yet even though all of the 240 BP pass permits for 5092 went in the BP pass, there were still 960 permits that went into the next phase, the 1-2 choice draw. And if they didn't all go in this phase, the remainder would go to the 3-4-5 phase. And any still remaining would go to the leftover phase. Here's how it all works: Bonu Point Process

Way to go TJ. Nice javelina.

Forget what I said. It's early and I wasn't I wasn't thinking clearly. It's only if the 2nd chocie is different where you can still draw in the 20% pass. Obviously if permits for 1st choice are gone in that pass, they would be gone for 2nd as well.

If anyone has a lot of BPs, they should fill in both the 1st and 2nd choices with the SAME hunt number because it is possible to draw a 2nd choice in the 20% pass round. EDIT: IGNORE this. See below reply!!!

Man, this is one monster snake! Biggest Snake in the world found dead.

You varmint hunters are gonna love this one! http://www.huntingclub.com/blogs/articletype/articleview/articleid/14679/new-raging-rimfire-17-winchester-super-magnum

Wish mine had wool like those.

Ah, come on, Doug. Are you telling me that you don't create some sort of a memorial for every critter you kill???

I looked at the Savage in Spoomer's article again; it looks nothing like a 110 model. So I'm guessing they might be using an all new rimfire platform since it will have to deal with quite a bit of pressure.

Spoomer's article showed a Savage "test rifle," likely a model 110 knock-off.

More from the OUTDOOR WIRE: Winchester Announces World's Fastest, Most Powerful Modern Rimfire Cartridge EAST ALTON, Ill. (Jan. 3, 2013) - Coyotes, prairie dogs and other varmints, beware. In 2013, Winchester® Ammunition will arm small game hunters with the most revolutionary rimfire cartridge in the company's almost 150-year history - the .17 Winchester Super Magnum. The .17 Win Super Mag offers the downrange performance of a centerfire cartridge at only a fraction of the cost. For the first time in history, hunters can expect pinpoint accuracy and devastating performance from a rimfire cartridge at ranges well past 200 yards. "Our engineers have been developing the top-secret .17 Win Super Mag caliber for more than three years and the rimfire revolution begins now," said Brett Flaugher, Winchester Ammunition vice president of sales, marketing and strategy. "At 3,000 feet per second it's the fastest modern rimfire cartridge on the planet. The downrange energy deposited by the .17 Win Super Mag will be a game-changer for varmint and predator hunters everywhere." The .17 Win Super Mag will initially be offered in three bullet types: a 20-grain plastic tip in the Varmint HV® (High Velocity) line, 25-grain plastic tip in the Varmint HE® (High Energy) line and a 20-grain jacketed hollow point in the legendary Super-X® line. Each .17 Win Super Mag bullet will far surpass the long-range wind drift and bullet-drop limitations of popular rimfire calibers like .22 Win Mag and .17 HMR, while depositing more than 150 percent more energy than both. "Part of the appeal of rimfire ammunition to high-volume shooters is the relatively low cost," added Flaugher. "With the launch of .17 Win Super Mag, now hunters will get the downrange performance of a centerfire cartridge at the more affordable price point of traditional rimfire ammunition. It's the best of both worlds for our customers." .17 Win Super Mag specifications: Symbol Sub Brand Bullet Weight/Type Muzzle Velocity S17W20 Varmint HV 20-gr Plastic Tip 3,000 fps S17W25 Varmint HE 25-gr Plastic Tip 2,600 fps X17W20 Super-X 20-gr JHP 3,000 fps Each of the brand-new .17 Win Super Mag symbols will be offered in a 50-round box and 1,000-round case. The ammunition will be available at Winchester dealers by April 2013. For more information on the .17 Win Super Mag, visit Winchester.com in January 2013. With a company heritage dating back to 1866, Winchester Ammunition was there for the taming of the American West, the Allied Forces' victory in World War II and through the years, millions of fond memories made in the great outdoors and at the range. Known as The American Legend, Winchester is a global leader in sporting, law enforcement, military and personal defense ammunition production. Winchester continues to raise the bar with innovative products like Blind Side® waterfowl and PDX1® Defender personal defense ammunition.

I just had to use the Mobile app to both start a new topic in the Predator Hunting section and to reply here.

Inspector Clouseau is on the job.

First Pass (20% Bonus Point) Twenty percent of authorized tags in each hunt for deer, antelope, elk, turkey and javelina may be issued in this pass. Twenty percent of the total authorized tags for both bighorn sheep and buffalo may be issued. Although twenty percent are available, nonresident caps are still in effect. 1. Each application is assigned the lowest random number from those generated for it. 2. The application file is then sorted by group bonus points in descending sequence within genus and then by random number within the bonus point groupings. As each application is read,the first and then second hunt choices are checked to see if there are any permits available as part of the 20% bonus point allotment. If there are enough permits available for each applicant on the application without exceeding the 20% allotment or the nonresident cap, the permits are issued to that application. If not, the next application is read and the first and second hunt choices are checked until the entire application file is read. Any unissued permits from the "bonus point phase" will be returned to the available permits for each hunt. The Drawing will then continue to the next two passes. Second Pass (1st and 2nd Hunt Choices) 3.For all applications which were unsuccessful in the bonus point phase, new random numbers are generated for each application, with the lowest random number being assigned to the application. 4. The application file is then sorted in random number sequence (with no regard to bonus points) within genus. 5. The first application (with the lowest random number) is read, checking the first and then the second hunt choices for available permits. If there are enough permits available for either of the choices, for each applicant on the application, without exceeding the nonresident cap when applicable, the permits are issued. The next application in random number sequence is then checked for available permits until the entire file is read. Third Pass (3rd, 4th and 5th Hunt Choices) 6. For all applications which were unsuccessful with their first and second choices, new random numbers are generated for each application with the lowest random number being assigned to the application. 7. The application file is again sorted into random number sequence within genus. 8. Each application is then read checking the third, then the fourth and then the fifth hunt choices for available permits for all applicants on each application (without exceeding the nonresident cap). When permits are available for one of the three choices, they are issued to the application. 9. After the entire file has been read in the third pass, the tag issuance portion of the drawing has been completed. Applicants are then awarded an additional genus bonus point for each genus for which they were unsuccessful with a valid application. The genus bonus points for each successful applicant are then zeroed out for the genus for which they were issued a permit. Leftover Permits Any permits not issued in the above three passes are eligible for the first-come/first serve process. Applications are made by mail (or online, if available) and permits are issued to the first individuals who apply for these hunts. A successful applicant retains all previous bonus points. And this... D. The Department shall not make available more than one hunt permit-tag or 10% of the total hunt permit-tags, whichever is greater, for bighorn sheep or buffalo in any draw to nonresidents. The Department shall not make available more than 50% nor more than two bighorn sheep or buffalo hunt permit-tags of the total in any hunt number to nonresidents. E. The Department shall not make available more than 10%, rounded down, of the total hunt permit-tags in any hunt number to nonresidents for antelope, antlered deer, bull elk, javelina, or turkey. If a hunt number for antelope, antlered deer, bull elk, javelina or turkey has ten hunt permit-tags or fewer, no more than one hunt permit-tag will be made available to a nonresident, except that if a hunt number has only one hunt permit tag, that tag shall only be available to a resident. F. Any cap established under this Section applies only to hunt permit-tags issued by random drawing under subsections ©(2)( and ©.

Nice pic, Doug!

That's what it's all about right there! My oldest son Keith also killed his first big-game animal -- a 19B pronghorn -- at 11 yrs. old. He was along on my sheep hunt two weeks ago; he's 50 now.

I went to a mall yesterday and had a conversation with one of Santa's helpers. She told me because of all the pressure to make his deliveries on time, he sometimes is a bit tipsy while driving his sled. I just smiled and replied with, A MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL

Depends on the situation. The actual application isn't treated any different as either a resident or nonresident. It's only after it is assigned a draw number based on the number of average bonus points and considered if drawn where it will matter. For Coues deer or units for other species with few permits, it would likely only be a hindrance for a hunt with few permits -- i.e. Dec. hunts for Coues. In that case, if the 10% cap has already been reached, neither your partner or you will get a permit. BUT...having a NR apply with you in one case could be a plus if the NR has mucho more bonus points than you have. For example, you have no bonus points and he or she has 14. That means the application will get 8 chances (average of 14+2 for app=16 ) to get a low number in the draw. If he or she applied solo, however, he or she would get 15 chances. Of course, if it's just the opposite, the NRs 0 BPs will drastically decrease your chances to 8 rather than 15.