Outdoor Writer

Mine got hit for $265. Guess what that is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

Way to go, Dale. The fox is unique!

Neat setup!

I assume "dropping" means AFTER it was written and formally introduced by Weiers, i.e with no consultation with either the department or the commission? Glad to hear the vote is unanimous.

"We voted to have this tax under the conditions the money be spent on wildlife conservation" Whoops, forgot to ask about this one. Which tax on gear was it that the "we" personally voted on?

Yup, I was aware of all that. When did the G&F go in the red and what did those funds have to do with this? "Prior to this the AZGFD was the only state agency operating in the black , this is because of the xtra sales tax hunters and fishermen pay every time they by gear ... We voted to have this tax under the conditions the money be spent on wildlife conservation , the politicians did the same thing then - Declaring an emergency so the money could be swept into the general fund to pay off Arizona's deficit!"

One more try.... From my earlier message: Can we assume that these 54 auction permits will be in ADDITION to the 30 or so that are already allocated through another state law? Also, did either Weiers or AZSFWC run this by the game commission before going forward with it? If so, what did the commission think of the idea?

This is the second time you have posted this. Do you have a reference for EXACTLY when and where this occurred?

It's actually Jerry's brother, James, who is the Chairman.

Can we assume that these 54 auction permits will be in ADDITION to the 30 or so that are already allocated through another state law? Also, did either Weiers or AZSFWC run this by the game commission before going forward with it? If so, what did the commission think of the idea?

Bingo!! And shades of what Don Peay (sp?)of Sportsman for Wildlife in Utah has done with tags there over the last few years. Lots of hunters in that state aren't happy about it either.

Online application service now available for 2012 elk and pronghorn antelope hunts Jan. 6, 2012 The Arizona Game and Fish Department has announced that the online application service for Arizona’s 2012 elk and pronghorn antelope hunt draw is now available. Hunters who haven’t yet submitted an application now have the option of applying online by visiting www.azgfd.gov/draw and selecting the link to the online service. The application deadline is Tuesday, Feb. 14, 2012 by 7 p.m. (MST). Online applicants are advised to apply early and not wait until the last minute, in case any technical issues arise on deadline day. Those applying online will have to pay the non-refundable $7.50 application fee (which is charged as part of the tag fee whether applying online or with a paper application). Also, a 2012 hunting license is required of all applicants to apply in the draw. If you haven’t already purchased your license, you can do so through the draw application process. Please keep in mind that if you are purchasing your license online, you must have a working printer handy and print your license out at the time of purchase. The department does not mail out licenses that are purchased online. Licenses are also available for purchase from Arizona Game and Fish offices and from more than 300 license dealers statewide. The online application service allows payment with a credit card (VISA and Mastercard only). The cost of the hunt permit-tag won’t be charged unless and until you are drawn. The online service works with the following browsers: Microsoft Internet Explorer, Firefox, Google Chrome and Safari (If you use Safari, it is recommended that you upgrade to the latest version of the OS and Safari browser; a few problems have been reported with older Safari versions). This application service currently does not work with mobile devices such as iPad, iPhone or other Smartphones. For those not using the online service, paper applications can still be mailed to the Arizona Game and Fish Department, Attn: Drawing Section, PO Box 74020, Phoenix, AZ 85087-1052, or they can be hand-delivered to any of the seven Game and Fish offices located in Pinetop, Flagstaff, Kingman, Yuma, Tucson, Mesa and Phoenix. Mailed applications must be received by the department by the deadline; postmarks don’t count. Copies of the 2012 Pronghorn Antelope and Elk Hunt Draw Information Booklet are now available at all Game and Fish offices and will soon be at all hunting license dealers throughout the state. The booklet is also available online at www.azgfd.gov/draw.

Online application service now available for 2012 elk and pronghorn antelope hunts Jan. 6, 2012 The Arizona Game and Fish Department has announced that the online application service for Arizona’s 2012 elk and pronghorn antelope hunt draw is now available. Hunters who haven’t yet submitted an application now have the option of applying online by visiting www.azgfd.gov/draw and selecting the link to the online service. The application deadline is Tuesday, Feb. 14, 2012 by 7 p.m. (MST). Online applicants are advised to apply early and not wait until the last minute, in case any technical issues arise on deadline day. Those applying online will have to pay the non-refundable $7.50 application fee (which is charged as part of the tag fee whether applying online or with a paper application). Also, a 2012 hunting license is required of all applicants to apply in the draw. If you haven’t already purchased your license, you can do so through the draw application process. Please keep in mind that if you are purchasing your license online, you must have a working printer handy and print your license out at the time of purchase. The department does not mail out licenses that are purchased online. Licenses are also available for purchase from Arizona Game and Fish offices and from more than 300 license dealers statewide. The online application service allows payment with a credit card (VISA and Mastercard only). The cost of the hunt permit-tag won’t be charged unless and until you are drawn. The online service works with the following browsers: Microsoft Internet Explorer, Firefox, Google Chrome and Safari (If you use Safari, it is recommended that you upgrade to the latest version of the OS and Safari browser; a few problems have been reported with older Safari versions). This application service currently does not work with mobile devices such as iPad, iPhone or other Smartphones. For those not using the online service, paper applications can still be mailed to the Arizona Game and Fish Department, Attn: Drawing Section, PO Box 74020, Phoenix, AZ 85087-1052, or they can be hand-delivered to any of the seven Game and Fish offices located in Pinetop, Flagstaff, Kingman, Yuma, Tucson, Mesa and Phoenix. Mailed applications must be received by the department by the deadline; postmarks don’t count. Copies of the 2012 Pronghorn Antelope and Elk Hunt Draw Information Booklet are now available at all Game and Fish offices and will soon be at all hunting license dealers throughout the state. The booklet is also available online at www.azgfd.gov/draw.

We had planned to be there but... I put a kink in my back on the 9th hole Thurs. and it got so bad that I quit after 14 holes. By Fri, despite lots of pills, I couldn't stand upright. It didn't start to feel better until Mon., but it's still tender.

I tried to make the same points in the other thread -- to no avail. It will all come down to what a WM deems as "intentionally."

Sorry, I haven't replied earlier. I've been snow-under all weekend. Anyway, thanks to all of you. I appreciate it.

Aaahhh, the old argument by gibberish, better known as baffle them with bull$h!t. Don't you know by now that only works on "a dumb, uneducated cowboy?" I can't believe you actually wrote all that drivel, especially the parts about "vitals" and such? Were you sober, or did you perhaps relegate the task to your 12-yr. old neighbor? Even a "freethinker with only half a brain" would read it and conclude you couldn't be serious. Perhaps in your case, the "half a brain" is an exaggeration? Anyway, I'll just assume you meant it all as humor for the masses and not waste my time on a serious reply to your drivel. In the meantime, I bet folks here would love to have your recipes for cooking "vitals." Have a nice day.

Hmm, I'm not sure they're one and the same. This seems to be a bit of a contradiction, no? “Take,” as defined by law, includes pursuing, shooting, hunting and killing wildlife. You are unlawfully using a vehicle to take wildlife if you intentionally drive around until you see the animal you wish to harvest and then make an attempt to take. “Road hunting” is illegal; so is pursuing wildlife with a vehicle, chasing or heading off moving wildlife with a vehicle, and driving offroad to get closer to wildlife. You do not have to shoot from the vehicle to be in violation. Also, I'm guessing that each wildlife manager MIGHT interpret the law differently, given individual scenarios.

Depends on who is doing the talking. The conspiracy theory folks will say the wolves are hybrids. The people within the program will say this: "The animals that are present in the Blue Range Wolf Recovery Area (BRWRA) are not true wolves, and are hybrids." Response: "According to scientists, there are three pure lineages of the Mexican gray wolf: McBride, Ghost Ranch, and Aragon. Geneticists have verified (certified) that all three lineages consist of pure-bred Mexican wolves. Regarding the free-ranging population, there have been two incidents of Mexican wolf-dog hybrid litters conceived in the wild (one in New Mexico, one on the Fort Apache Indian Reservation). Both litters were humanely euthanized after genetic testing verified they were Mexican wolf-dog crosses. Both cases involved a female Mexican wolf breeding with a male dog. Aside from the two hybrid litters that have been discovered, there is no evidence to date to suggest hybridization with dogs or other canids is occurring in the free-ranging Mexican wolf population. Genetic testing and analysis of all captured animals will continue to be an important component of the Mexican wolf reintroduction program. We will continue to investigate genetic data and determine if introgression of either domestic dog or coyote genes has occurred within the Mexican wolf population."

I usually don't get involved in to many dicussions on who is right or wrong but I still have another half a pot of coffee to drink so I'll chime in. How do you know they were definitely illegal ROAD HUNTERS as you say? I never read where Kevin said they were shooting from the road or using their truck as a rest. Correct me if I'm not seeing the whole picture here. So, I'm driving down a two track road and if I spot a buck I am to say to my partner we can not get out and shoot because we spotted it while driving to another spot? TJ From the AZ Hunting Regs: (A.R.S. 17-301 B, R12-4-319) Pages 104 and 121 No person may take wildlife from a motor vehicle (including watercraft and aircraft), except as permitted by Commission Order, and under the provisions of the Challenged Hunter Access Mobility Permit Commission Rule (R12-4-217). “Take,” as defined by law, includes pursuing, shooting, hunting and killing wildlife. You are unlawfully using a vehicle to take wildlife if you intentionally drive around until you see the animal you wish to harvest and then make an attempt to take. “Road hunting” is illegal; so is pursuing wildlife with a vehicle, chasing or heading off moving wildlife with a vehicle, and driving offroad to get closer to wildlife. You do not have to shoot from the vehicle to be in violation. Shoot Across Road (A.R.S. 17-301 Page 104 B. No person may knowingly discharge any firearm or shoot any other device including bow and arrow upon, from, across, or into a maintained road or railway. It is advisable not to shoot from or across any road. Again, this is one of the most common violations during the dove season.

Yup, plenty of folks have agendas. Some even have an agenda to make every issue into a conspiracy. Heck, we all know Bush ordered the destruction of the Twin Towers and the mafia assasinated JFK, right? As for MY agenda, it's to report the facts as best I can from as MANY sources as I can. That's what I've done for going on 40 years now. In the case of lead poisoning in avian critters, I believe the dozens upon dozens of "sources" long ago proved the facts, and no amount of rhetoric or hyperbole will disprove them. If someone has a bullet in his brain and no other cause of death is found, could a coroner say without a doubt that person died from a bullet to the head? Guess everyone might decide for themselves if that would be factual or maybe just an "agenda", eh? Oh wait, there are some folks who still don't believe smoking causes cancer. Beam me up, Scotty......

I've got a busy weekend, so I won't have time to further your education to the extent necessary. Besides, we've been there and done this before. One of my replies to you from a long time back: In reality, lead poisoning is quite widespread in terrestial birds (that's the non-waterfowl kind for the unscientific types) and has been well documented in more than 60 species, including both American eagle species, all raptors and yes, ravens, too. Many of these terrestial species are susceptable in two ways -- either by ingesting the lead fragments while feeding on game carcasses or entrails or by picking up lead shot when they do their normal pecking for small stones or gravel to aid digestion. Pheasants, quail, chukars and wild turkeys have all suffered from lead poisoning as a result of the latter. The difference between the documentation between such birds and the highly controlled condor is the ability to KNOW when the poisoning or deaths occur. Obviously, the condors are closely monitored, which includes radios, etc. Eagles, raptors or other terrestial birds are happenstance discoveries, however. Thus, the magnitude of lead poisoning losses for individual terrestial species is difficult to quantify. As for knowing how the condors are ingesting lead from bullets and not trash, it's pretty simple. Those who know what they're doing can match lead types exactly by the particular isotopes in specific leads, including those used in shot and bullets. -TONY So just a few quick facts: Lead poisoning and the deaths caused by it in ALL avian critters, including waterfowl, has been well documented for decades -- and long before the condor project came into being. Perhaps you recently heard that lead shot is no longer legal to hunt waterfowl (banned in 1991) because thousands have died from lead poisoning over the years?? Last I heard, they don't eat paint and garbage from dumpsters. It's pretty simple for researchers to perform a necropsy (that's an autopsy on a non-human) to determine the cause of death. In the majority of cases, lead particles from bullets or lead shot usually indicate the reason. And with a living bird, a simple blood test easily reveals a case of lead poisoning, which sometimes can be treated.. The reason we hear more about the condors is because of the status as an endanegred critter and the near 24/7 monitoring of them. Not only do the researchers have the ability to know when a condor has been affected by using the GPS collars as an indication of its non-activity or death, but they regulary trap EVERY bird at least once and often twice a year for testing. Now, if you really want to know more, you can google "lead poisoning in birds," and you will get literally hundreds of links to the research that has been done -- and findings -- by the USF&WS, about every other DNR & G&FD in most states, independent conservation groups and universities over the years. A few of the facts you might find on the various pages: "Seventeen years after nontoxic shot requirements were established for hunting waterfowl, attention has shifted to lead poisoning in other species. These include upland game birds, scavengers (such as vultures, hawks and eagles) and other waterbirds that are exposed to lead through the ingestion of spent lead shot, bullet fragments and fishing sinkers." ***** "Research on lead poisoning has been focused on bird species, with at least two studies indicating that the ban on the use of lead shot for hunting waterfowl in North America has been successful in reducing lead exposure in waterfowl. The authors found that upland game, like doves and quail, and scavenging birds, such as vultures and eagles, continue to be exposed to lead shot, putting some populations (condors in particular) at risk of lead poisoning." ***** From the Wisconsin DNR: "In Wisconsin, lead poisoning is a significant mortality factor for the Trumpeter Swan, an endangered species in the state. Of 110 Trumpeter Swan carcasses submitted to the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources (WDNR) for post-mortem examination between 1991 and 2004, 34 deaths (~31%) were attributed to lead poisoning." "Of 559 Bald Eagle carcasses submitted to the WDNR between 1994 and 2003, 68 (~12%) of those deaths were attributed to lead poisoning." A WDNR study published in 2004 found that some American Woodcock in Wisconsin are accumulating unusually high levels of lead in their wing bones. The exact source of the lead is not known at this time, but a dietary source for the lead is likely, and the study could not rule out lead shot in soils as the ultimate source of the lead. In 1992, at least 200-300 Canada Geese died as a result of acute lead poisoning from ingesting lead shot on a former trap and skeet shooting range near Lake Geneva in Walworth County, Wisconsin. The US Environmental Protection Agency reportedly spent ~ $1.88 M on a Superfund cleanup of the site, removing ~28,000 tons of lead-contaminated soils. The most recent large-scale lead poisoning event in Wisconsin occurred when ~200 Canada Geese were collected in 1999 and again in 2000 from a location in Outagamie Co. "Birds Affected by Lead Contamination All bird species are at risk from different types of lead poisoning, but certain types of birds have been found to suffer more from the most prominent sources of lead. Waterfowl: Loons, swans, geese and ducks not only may suffer from lead poisoning if they are shot with lead ammunition, but lost or discarded fishing tackle can be inadvertently consumed and lead to poisoning. Birds of Prey: Eagles, vultures and condors are at the greatest risk of lead poisoning, most commonly from ingesting lead-based ammunition from carrion and carcasses left behind by irresponsible hunters. Game Birds: Game birds hunted with lead-based ammunition can suffer from lead poisoning if they are wounded but not killed, and doves and quail may accidentally consume discarded lead shotgun pellets as grit for their digestive system." **** From Michigan DNR: Lead poisoning has been recognized as a mortality factor in waterfowl since the late 1800's. Lead poisoning cases today are either the result of ingestion of spent lead shot or fishing sinkers and jig heads during normal feeding activities. When the lead reaches the acidic environment of the gizzard (ducks, geese and swans) or the ventriculus (loons), it is worn down, dissolved, and absorbed into body tissues. Once the lead reaches toxic levels in the tissues, muscle paralysis and associated complications result in death. Distribution Ducks, geese, swans and loons are the animals most commonly affected by lead ingestion, however, upland game birds including mourning doves, wild turkeys, pheasants, and quail are occasionally affected. Lead poisoning has also been noted in small mammals (raccoon) and raptors, presumably from the ingestion of lead contaminated prey. In ducks, geese and swans, lead poisoning is most commonly seen during migration in the late fall and early spring. In heavily contaminated areas, cases may be seen at any time of year. Transmission and Development When lead is ingested, the pellets, sinkers, or jig heads lie in the gizzard or ventriculus and begin to erode. The lead enters the circulatory system and mimics the movement of calcium. It becomes stored within the bones and is excreted via the bile into the feces. **** Once you read all of the FACTUAL information available, take two aspirins and call me in the morning. Oh, and watch out for that boogeyman behind that bush. He could be from some gubbermint agency.

Yes, a lot.

TJ Unless something unexpected crops up, El and I will be there.