Outdoor Writer

Bill, I was sitting with my coffee watching the news on TV this morning and realized my time notes in my last reply were a bit off in one instance. It was the early 70s when I was doing business with Gilbert while I was working for American Wholesale Hardware, but my visits to the old SCI offices were actually in the early 80s when I was also a sale rep but selling photo equipment to Tucson accounts. In fact, I believe Sally immediately preceeded your arrival at SCI before she left to edit the AZG&F magazine here in Phoenix. I had kept in touch with Sally over the years because we were both OWAA members and usually attended the annual conferences. But I haven't been to one in at least 10 years now and after a 35-yr. run, I no longer belong to that organization. The last time I spoke to her, though, was 2003, just prior to my hunt in the RSA. Since she is an RSA native, I called her for any advice she might offer. RE: Kathy Although I always wondered how such a relationship could survive very long, I didn't realize there was a divorce involved. For some reason, I just thought Mac's passing ended the relationship. TJ, Although my adventures pale in glamor compared to some of Bill's, I have been somewhat fortunate to hunt and fish in some really neat places. While my travels are somewhat curtailed now, I have been lucky to hunt or fish in 40 of the 50 states, 11 Canadian provinces, Mexico, Africa and New Zealand. For the most part, most of the trips were fairly benign as far as real excitement. But on several occasions, I did have those "change your underwear" types of excitement. Three of them involved bush planes. After the third one, I quickly figured out why so many bush pilots die young.

Brent, Well, can't say we didn't try. Sorry you didn't get to actually hand the shirt to Ted. I'm glad he had the courtesy to call you, though. That was almost as good. Short story: This goes back to the article I posted and how it came about. Years ago, back in the '80s before the Web came into existence, my best friend, who lives in MD, and I ran a huge conglomeration of of outdoor-related forums on Compuserve. At the time, it was THE place to be. Of course, one forum was dedicated to hunting, and one of the sections was "Ted Nugent." He was personally very active there for years, so we had lots of message exchanges. When I found out he was going to be here in Phx for that concert at Desert Sky, I mentioned that I would like to interview him for the article. A few days later, my phone rang at 6 a.m. It was Ted calling from a limo on his way to an airport in CT. He had called information for my number. End result: He left me and my oldest son two tickets, as well as a pass to enter his "Bloodbrothers" meeting before the concert, at Will Call. We did the interview before he went on stage, and he told me to come back there again after the show to party a bit, which we did. Now here's the amusing part: Our tickets were in the reserved section, dead-center and about 10 rows back from the stage. When the warm-up band started playing, my guts started vibrating and my ears began ringing because we had TWO humongous amps pointed at us from less than 25 ft. away. After about five minutes, we got up and went up to the open seating on the grassy hillside for the rest of the concert. On the way, I handed our reserved seat tickets to a young couple, hoping they might enjoy the close-up noise more than I did. End of story. Amanda, I'll see if I can get him to stop by here and at least say "hi."

Bill, I might be misremembering the sheep species, but the story is the same. It happened during the big auction night at one of the last SCI conventions that was held in LV back in the 80s. Jim Zumbo and I were BSing, while standing against the wall way in the back of the hall during the hunt auctions. We were both wearing our cowboy hats. Whatever sheep it was, the hunt was to be the first of its kind during modern times in this particular location in Asia. The outfitter was guaranteeing a world record. And so the the bidding began and eventually climbed into the $200K+ range. It was the wrong time for me to raise my hat so I could brush my hair back a bit. The auctioneer spotted that and immediately said, "And we have $XXXX from the gentleman in the back of the room with the cowboy hat. He was pointing our way. Knowing we were the only two there with cowboys hats on our heads, I looked at Zumbo and asked if he had really bid. He said, "No. I think he means you." Right then, my jaw dropped, and I began wondering what I was going to tell Ellen when I got home. More importantly, I wondered where I would get that kind of money to pay for it. Fortunately, someone wanted the hunt more than I did. Just as I was about to protest, a guy upped the bidding. Actually, I quickly found out that I was pretty safe; the hunt finally sold for about $100K more than my bid had been. RE: McElroy I met and talked to him a couple times at the old offices in Tucson. At the time (early 1970s), I was a sales rep (only writing part time) and went down there every two weeks. Ronstadt's Hardware, owned by Linda's dad, was one of my big customers. Sally Antrobus was the editor of the SCI magazine then, and she was good friend. So I would stop by SCI and take her to lunch. In fact, before Kathy (McElroy) married C.J. she was the receptionist, and I took her to lunch or dinner on occasion.

Well let me know if you change your mind, and I'll have my people contact his people.

If during the course of my life I had McElroy's money, I would have been hunting 200 days or more per year! Did I ever tell you how I ALMOST went on a Marco Polo hunt by accident??

Bill, I think most of the guys you're talking about got what they got because of the money they had. I'm not putting them down, but about any avid hunter could have an impressive trophy room(s) with enough time and money. Hunter74, I already have my turkey slam, with Rios from TX, Eastern from MO and others states, Merriam's from AZ and others, Osceola from FL and a Gould's from Sonora. And like you, I'm short a Sitka for my deer slam. I also have three subspecies of caribou -- mountain (BC), Central BG (NWT), and BG (AK). I doubt I'll ever finish either of these, though. Have you ever been in the Richardson trophy room? TJ, I had 7 of the 10 very early on after moving here in 1961. By the early '70s, I already had killed two elk, two 'lopes, a few mulie and Coues bucks and several javelina. I tagged the bear and my first Merriam's on the same spring hunt in about 1966 on the White Mt. res. near Cibeque when it was still legal to hunt there without a guide and all the red tape. I shot my gobbler the first morning, and since I had a couple buddies still hunting the big birds, I decided to do some predator calling the next day where I had seen a few lion scrapes and tracks the day before. Ten minutes after I began calling, a very nice boar blackie walked in and hit the ground. It's the rug on the wall in this older photo of my main trophy room below. I didn't hunt lion specifically until the 1980s and finally killed a dandy while hunting with Josh's dad, Randy. We were both much younger then. Other than the one lion and bear, I've killed a bunch more of the same species over the last 35+ years in AZ -- and elsewhere -- while waiting to draw my sheep and bison permit. I do have three more black bears from BC, though.

Brent & Amanda, Glad to help. Hope it all comes off well. If anyone wants to get a shirt to Obama, let me know.

That one photo shows only a small portion of it. I have a bunch of pix of the whole room from several angles. If there's any interest, I can post them in another thread. Yup, the major difficulty is getting the permits. I have several of every species from AZ except bear and lion. I have one of each of those two, which was enough for me. I've applied for sheep for more than 35 years, but lost some points when I moved to Colorado for a few years. Now I'm back up to 19 BPs. I didn't apply for a buff permit while the hunts were in the pens or in the pastures. So I just started applying for a permit about 8 years ago.

Bill, Yeah, you're probably right about keeping it at 10. That way I might make it before I die if I ever draw a sheep and bison permit. I'd guess the number a bit higher than 75, probably more like 125-150 by now. I know of at least two that did it fairly recently, and both of them killed all 10 with a BOW!! They are Cindi Richardson (Corky's wife) and Brian Ham. Ironically, they both completed the Big Ten with their bison on the SAME hunt at Houserock. Here's a photo of them all with Ham's bull. Cindi, 2nd from left and Brian, 3rd from left A photo of Cindi in the Richardson trophy room:

There are (were?) actually two versions. As Amanda mentioned, the AZ Wildlife Federation has one, but it's known as the Arizona Big Nine award because it doesn't include bison. This is one originally started in the 1960s by the Mesa Varmint Callers club. The AWF took it over sometime in the late 1980s or early 1990s. Far as I know, it still exists. The Big Nine has somewhat structured requirements where the hunter uses no dogs, guides or electronic callers to kill the critters. Some of the animals also have minimum standards, i.e measurements that they must meet, and I think at least one must meet the minimum to make the AWF record book. At the time the Big Nine program began, the only bison hunts were conducted in pens and were made notable in the movie, "Bless The Beasts and The Children." The original AZ Big Ten award, which did include bison, was started in the 1950-60s by one of the state's earliest outdoor magazines. I believe it was called Arizona Wildlife Sportsman or such. I don't recall if he started it, but the late Bob Hirsch was its editor for a long time. I don't remember the specifics, but the requirements were minimal -- just legally tag one of every species on the list. Of course, the magazine is long gone, and I don't believe anyone has continued this award program except as noted above with the AWF. These are the critters on the original Big Ten list: pronghorn, black bear, buffalo, desert bighorn sheep, elk, javalina, turkey, mountain lion, mule deer, and Coues deer. When both of these programs came into being in the 1960s, there were no RM bighorns or Gould's turkeys in the state. Now that they both are legally hunted, the list should probably be updated to the Big 12. Edited to add: you posted while I was writing, Bill.

I just had a discussion with a contact at the AGFD about the contradictory wording in several places. It just so happens they're working on the next reg booklet as we speak. He's going to try to get everything corrected ASAP in the regs and also on the web site. BUT...the RIGHT wording is the rule Gene posted. No parent or guardian necessary.

I sent an e-mail to the address I had, but it was returned undeliverable. So I sent it to Sasha, his daughter and asked her to get it to him if possible.

This is a column I did for AZ Hunter & Angler from many years ago after I interviewed Ted in his dressing room before the show. THE LAST SHOT by Tony Mandile THE MOTOR CITY MADMAN The stage was set -- literally. A few friends and I had just sat through more than hour of throbbing rock music put forth by the English group known as Bad Company. For an old dude like me with a taste for Barbra Streisand or Whitney Houston, sitting there on the grass of the Desert Sky Pavilion in Phoenix and listening to hard rock amounted to an anomaly. In this case, my real motive for bearing it had little to do with the music. The stage curtains had been closed for 15 minutes or so after Bad Company's performance. Now the only sound was the combined buzz from several thousand spectators melting into one indistinguishable voice. I could handle the noise from the murmuring crowd quite easily because it didn't vibrate my insides and produce a decibel level to push the needle off the scale. The welcome change from Bad Company suddenly ended, though The huge speakers came alive again with the raucous beat of drums and high-pitch twangs of electric guitars. As the curtains parted, a stage filled with smoke appeared amid banks of multi- colored, rapidly blinking spotlights. The rising, ever shifting smoke, tinted by multi-colored lights, provided a constantly changing surrealistic scene. Then from the stage's dark recesses sprang the man known as the Motor City Madman. The Madman's long hair, reaching well below his wide shoulders, bounced around to the beat of his body contortions. The din from the amplified drums and guitars grew louder and louder now, though not quite loud enough to drown out the welcoming cheers from the crowd when it recognized the words of Cat Scratch Fever, the Madman's trademark song. Minutes later, Ted Nugent stepped to the microphone, and in a rapidly paced, jivey way, told everyone how glad he was to be with his bloodbrothers. I sat mesmerized, knowing I had just witnessed a metamorphosis of sorts -- a Clark Kent trip into a phone booth, so to speak. Two hours earlier, I had spent a 1/2-hr. talking one-on-one to the 46-yr.-old Nugent in the quiet of his dressing room. He wore jeans, a sleeveless camo shirt and a camo baseball hat. His long, flowing hair, confined into a ponytail by a rubber band, remained relatively still as we discussed hunting, the animal-rights crowd and the battle to save our 2nd Amendment rights. In fact, the chat with Nugent seemed no different than one I would have with my next-door neighbor. But now, as I watched the transformation from hunter, father and outspoken critic of those who endanger America's hunting and shooting traditions, I got the feeling I was seeing someone else. I visited Nugent again after the show and mentioned my astonishment at the ease he had switched personalities. Nugent laughed. "It's like a welder who comes home, takes a shower and puts on a suit and tie. He's no longer a welder once he punches out from his job and dresses in a different costume. When I'm on stage, I'm a rock star -- the Motor City Madman, if you will." Although Nugent can adopt the persona of two different people, his view of life is always the same. Most importantly, he eschews the misuse of drugs and booze. It's a potent message coming from a rocker who has been in the business for 30 years. He also has a devout love for the outdoors and a well-honed understanding of wildlife and the environment. Most importantly, Nugent defends hunting and firearms with a zeal few can match. He isn't afraid to make his views known, regardless of his audience and whether it agrees with him or not. I asked Nugent if he didn't often let this enthusiasm go too far, especially when it comes to some of his most outrageous comments or his dialogue that's often laced with four-letter words. "There's a reason for it. When I'm outrageous and crass, it creates controversy, and that controversy focuses attention on me. In the last two days, I've been interviewed on six radio and two TV stations in LA and here. You don't see the NRA or hunting organizations getting that kind of airtime. Yet in every case, I was able to get the word out. No matter what words I use, though, no one can ever accuse me of speaking an untruth and not saying something from the heart, stuff I truly believe in. The important thing is people hear what I have to say. And as Ted Nugent, the rocker, I reach an audience that no one else can -- the youth of this country. To do that, I need to speak their language." "When I defend hunting, I do it because I know it's a wholesome activity. When I speak against the animal-rights whackos, I do it because their beliefs are garbage and have no factual basis in reality. They are the extreme fringe. No free-thinking, intelligent person should accept what they say without researching the facts for themselves." Nugent gets his word out in other ways, too. Several years ago he formed Ted Nugent's World Bowhunters (soon to be Ted Nugent's American Bloodbrothers). Along with his lovely wife, Shemane, he publishes Ted Nugent Adventure Outdoors, a full-color, straight-hitting magazine. But one of the efforts Nugent is more proud of than anything is his Kamp For Kids program. Held twice each summer, the "Kamp" is aimed at getting kids off the streets and into the woods. As Nugent puts it, "We want to get them where they belong. The main emphasis is to teach kids about the environment and bowhunting. In doing this, we hope to protect the future of both bowhunting and the youth of America. " Nugent's admiration for the legendary bowhunter Fred Bear is hard not to notice. After Bear's death, Nugent wrote the song, "Fred Bear." He now refers to it as the American Hunter's Theme Song. Though it rocks and rolls like most of the Motor City Madman's music, the message it conveys is pure and unadulterated; Nugent thought much of the man and what he stood for. And when Nugent changes from the camo of a bowhunter to the gaudy trappings of the rock star and sings "Fred Bear" on-stage, the audience still gets that message loud and clear. And the Madman's Spirit of the Wild is alive. Of course, some of us older folks just wish it wasn't quite so loud.

Brent, I know Ted personally, so I'll see if I can get in touch with him to let him know about you and the CWT shirt. That might take a couple days if he's traveling. Stay tuned.

The article posted above is nonsense and nothing more than the ranting from some wingnut's blog site. The actual issue in the REAL Reuter's article concerns the INTERNATIONAL trade (that's between COUNTRIES for the reading challenged) of non-nuclear arms to other countries, i.e. exporting/importing conventional arms from one country to another. The conventional arms can be anything from small MILITARY arms to tanks and jet fighters.

This is a cross-post from another hunting site I frequent. Please vote. ***** CBC.ca is having a poll about the sustainability of the "trophy" grizzly bear hunt in BC. The grizzly hunt in BC is entirely by limited entry (or in the case of non-residents, there is a quota for guide-outfitters). Using a VERY conservative estimate of the population, and annual allowable harvest is set at less than 2% of the population, and it's illegal to shoot any bear in the company of cubs. The grizzly bear population has been increasing for at least the last decade, and are re-colonizing habitats that they were pushed out of many decades earlier. We can use help maintaing this hunt in BC as we are currently under a lot of pressure from anti--hunting groups that used the Olympics as a springboard for their revived campaigns. Please VOTE here.... http://www.cbc.ca/bc/ Thanks, Canuck

Yeah, I didn't think you had, and the points you made were dead on the mark.

I think it's at the end of pg. 2

Bill, I sent that "letter," knowing it was too long for the normal opinion column. So in my e-mail I suggested they use it as a "My Turn" item, which are generally as long as need be. I haven't heard anything yet, though, so I assume it won't be published.

Don't know if it will get published, but I sent this very long "letter to the editor" earlier today. ******************************* Border Security The slaying of rancher Rob Krentz was a sad but an inevitable incident. Less than a year ago (June, 2009), three government agency employees -- an officer with the Arizona Game and Fish Department, another Game and Fish employee and an employee with Pima County Natural Resources, Parks and Recreation -- were fired upon by a group of men they encountered while scouting the area for a land access project in southern Arizona. The shots likely came from the gun of a drug smuggler. Thankfully, no one was injured during that incident. But the growing problems along the Mexican border and past incidents such as this will no doubt lead to more of the same. I and many other hunters often pursue our hobby in the areas along the border. On any given day, we can sit on a high point and watch streams of illegals crossing into the U.S. along numerous well-known corridors during the DAYLIGHT hours. While most are toting backpacks, others are toting large bales of marijuana on their backs. The latter usually have at least one firearm among them. Some even boldly hitch-hike once they reach one of the major roads. Naturally, most of the entry routes are between or skirt the Border Patrol check points. Although some hunters contact the BP via cell phone, the agents too often show up long after the illegals have moved to "safer" ground. In effect, it isn’t too much different than calling 911 to report a mugging or bank robbery; the police usually arrive just in time to take a report. Not only are the illegals a danger to U.S. citizens such as Rob Krentz, but they are also trashing our pristine landscape and the private ranches down there. It's so bad that a group known as Arizona Hunters Who Care have teamed up with the Arizona Game and Fish Department to clean up the trash annually. The volunteer group hauls out dump-truck loads of plastic bottles, clothing, backpacks, etc. that are left behind. Border Patrol agents put their lives on the line everyday to apprehend the illegals. Agents are often attacked with thrown rocks or other missiles, but if they retaliate with any force, they get tarred and feathered by the liberals. Unless there is some deterrent, any call for beefing up border security is the proverbial exercise in futility. Right now, "security" amounts to a revolving door -- get caught, get processed and get deported. A short time later, the deportee makes yet another attempt to get through the farce called "border security." Many illegals have gone through that revolving door numerous times, of course, and I would assume, many were successful at some point. That's why we have 12 to 20 million illegals in the country now. Making it worse are the do-gooders who place water stations and otherwise AID and ABET the illegal entries. Will they begin taking some responsibility as more U.S citizens are subjected to crimes, including murders, committed by illegals? Maybe it will take the brutal slaying of a family rather than just some old rancher? Unless breaking our immigration law -- and aiding the crimes -- carries a consequence, more security is meaningless. National Guard troops without live ammunition is certainly not the answer to the problem, and no wall, fence, moat or camera system will stop the influx. Putting a live body every 25 yards along the border to stop the illegals 24/7 might work, but what a waste of good manpower. So here's a suggestion for Rep. Giffords. When Congress gets back in session she should introduce a bill that makes entering the U.S. illegally into a crime with REAL punishment. Although it would be costly at first, the only way to deter reentry is a stay in a detention facility of three or more months. Each time the same illegal is caught, the punishment increases by one month; first offense carries a three-month sentence, second carries a four-month sentence, etc. And during that detention, the illegals can work by collecting the trash left all over southern Arizona. That way they will still have money to send home to their families while keeping our landscape as it should be -- clean of trash, decaying toilet paper and human feces. After word gets out that getting caught will result in spending time in jail every time, perhaps the number of illegal border crosses will eventually drop to a trickle. In fact, I would bet many of the illegals now in Arizona would be packing to head back to Mexico before Sheriff Joe locates them. Given the current political climate, though, the above has little chance of coming into being. Sadly, the liberals would never make it law. They would prefer to turn all the illegals into citizens, the ultimate vote farming. So in the coming days, there likely will be more and perhaps worse incidents like the senseless killing of Rob Krentz. Disclaimer: No doubt some readers might consider me a bigot, but they would be very, very wrong. I have LEGALLY traveled to and stayed in Mexico at least once a year over the last three decades. My wife and I own two time-shares in Mazatlan, and we have made many lifetime friends among the Mexican people. Once a week I play golf with a Mexican man who came here legally and became a U.S. citizen many years ago. No, I'm not a bigot, nor am I against anyone coming to this country to find life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. My four grandparents did just that when they immigrated here from Italy in the early 1900s. But see, they did it legally. That is the difference. Tony Mandile Glendale, AZ (metro Phx – the “kidnapping capitol” of the country)

Stevens didn't put serial numbers on many of its firearms, including the 94, until 1968-69, when they were mandated by the new gun control act.

Kent, Geez, have you been to Forest lakes in the last two decades? It sure has changed a lot from those photos. It is now covered with houses and most are well beyond the "cabin" stage. My DIL's sister and her husband have a house there that's probably worth about $500K now. Is that the Pine, Vallecito or... you're fishing in that one photo? RE: Lobos trip May will be a tough time for me since I already have two probable trips plans. They will eat up both time and money. I guess I'll have to wait until later in the year or 2011. RE: Howell The name is familar, but I don't know him presonally. Was he a gun writer who lived in Prescott?

So is the above still the case, or does the paved road go right to the beach now that it's done? I wouldn't mind heading down there for a couple days of R&R. We should organize a beach-camping trip for anyone who wants to go. I would be happy just to get into some surf fishing and cerveza drinking.

That dirt road was the pits. The dust was like talcum powder and would get through the tiniest of cracks in a vehicle. It sounds like the road you're talking about off the RP hwy is the one that goes to Desemboque, north of Lobos. So I guess you're saying they continued that paved road south all the way to Lobos then? I don't know if it's still there, but there was a store in Sonoita that sold huge bags of mesquite charcoal in its raw form, i.e. chunks of wood rather than briquet's. We would always stop and buy a couple bags to take with us. A few yards away from the store was a small outdoor taco stand where they roasted the meat on a domed metal dealie. In the 1960s, the tacos were about 10 cents each. For all we knew, the "carne asada" could have come from roadkills, but they were delicious.

Kent, On most trips, we fished in the surf, catching mostly sea trout and triggerfish with a few strange species tossed in. We did haul my buddy's 14' aluminum boat down one year and launched it from the beach. That trip was my first experience with mal de mer. I stayed green and on shore for about 3 days afterwards. We usually slept right on the beach atop air mattresses. On one trip, a fox came in and bit my friend -- now departed -- on the arm. He managed to grab it and strangle it. Thinking it was rabid, we cut off the head to take with us, packed our gear and headed back to Phx. We were right, so he had to go through the series of painful shots. Do you go into Sonora at Sasabe or Sonoita? And...is the road from Caborca to Lobos still dirt all the way?