Outdoor Writer

The captive environment puts every one of the animals with in proximity, thus making for easy transfer of diseases so every one is infected. This is why CWD has spread so quickly in some states where deer congregate around specific feed areas. There is NO reliable test that can confirm CWD in LIVE animals. The only test currently available is done on the brain tissue or lymph nodes of DEAD ungulates. -TONY

And if he needs dies, I have a set from RCBS I'll sell him cheap. I also have a BUNCH of brass -- most of it once-fired factory loads -- but I had promised it to someone else here. If he doen't buy it, though, Ryan can at a fair price. -TONY

The hogs would present few problems. It's the red deer that are the major concern. Not only will they breed with elk, but under the captive environment, diseases such as CWD and brucellosis are easily spread if any of them contract one of them. So if they get out, either disease could affect our wild critters. I think the buffs might also be susceptable to brucellosis. I spoke with my contact at G&F a bit ago and he thought that place had a grandfathered in permit. He also said trying to get a permit for captive deer today was near impossible. And...if G&F became aware of disease among the captive deer, they have the right under Title 17 to go in and kill them all. As far as any penalty for escaped critters, there is nothing written in stone. But they can assess such depending on what happens. -TONY

If the red deer survived, I guess it's quite possible they would breed with our native elk. They already have such crosses in NZ. If the hogs or buffalo escape, they would merely provide targets. As for the property owner, I'm not sure there's anything on the books yet. I'm going to make a call and check, though. -TONY

I think that is probably the same property that once housed Kent Henry's Arizona Hunt Club. That was a put-&-take bird -- pheasant, chukar, bobwhite quail -- shooting preserve, but they also had a very challenging sporting clays course that humbled me more than once. -TONY

Back in the early 1990s, I was invited to bowhunt deer near Roger's City in Michigan. When I accepted, I had no idea what was to come. But...I was cracking up while driving north from the Detroit area at all the signs along the road. You could buy deer bait -- sugar beets or corn by the bag or truck-full -- with you-load or we-load prices. It appeared as if selling bait for deer was big business. When I got to my destination, I was told we HAD to hunt over either a pile of sugar beets or a solar-powered corn feeder. And because there were several of us hunting the same private property, roaming was out of the question. That pretty much chilled my enthusiasm, but since I drove that many miles, I went along with the program. My stand was a little shed with a roof on it that appeared to be built for a gun hunter. The shooting window was about 2' tall and 4' wide, but to draw my bow, I literally had to stoop down or the upper bow limb would hit the ceiling. The corn feeder was hanging from a branch about 15 yards from the base of the stand. It was set to go off once in the early a.m. and once in late afternoon. When it did, it made a gentle whirring sound as the little disk spun to spread corn in a 10' circle. Not surprisingly, critters were moving in even before the thing went off. They had likely made notations on their agendas. The usual array -- all feeding at the same time -- included several deer, a few wild turkeys, porcupines, raccoons and black squirrels. It was fun watching all the smaller creatures scurrying about under & around the larger deer as they battled to eat the corn. Anyway, getting to the point. One day while I was sitting watching the circus, I had two does, both with twin fawns, under the feeder with an assortment of the other critters milling about. While I watched with the window latched up, I lit a cigarette. When I exhaled my first puff, I noticed the smoke gently wafted out the window and moved right toward the feeder. So I decided to do more of a test by inhaling deeply and immediately blowing clouds of smoke out the window. I could see it was all getting to the feeder, too. Not one creature lifted it head or stopped eating. I also figured if the smoke went in that direction, my scent probably was blowing there too. If so, it was little concern. -TONY

Everything you said is pretty much on the mark in regards to the carbon. Obviously that swatch of clothing is quite telling in regards to the area of carbon available to trap anything, and even at that, those teeny particles would have to be 100% active to do much good. The probability of the latter is remote, even from the time it is first manufactured because it is never sealed from the ambient atmosphere. While SOME scent would be eliminated, IMO, it would never be enough to work as advertised -- prevent game animals from smelling the wearer, mainly because of what i mentioned in my last reply. As for the scientific proof behind the lawsuit, perhaps the plaintiffs DO have such and are waiting before they reveal most of it. Did you read any of the actual lawsuit pages? It makes interesting reading. -TONY

Yup on both counts in your first paragraph. And good job on the research. BUT...the rafts do not have to escape from your clothing to give off scent! Bacteria gives off its own odor regardless of where it is located. So while you keep the rafts captive, they still emit the odors. The prime example is a person with obnoxious BO; you smell it regardles of sniffing their rafts or not. Now, since you mentioned dogs, here's something to consider. When I had my shorthair, she often picked up the scent of a single quail at 50 feet or more when the wind was right. If you ever shoot a quail, hold it up to your nose and smell it. You will find it has VERY LITTLE odor that the human nose can detect, yet a dog can smell that bird from many yards distant. A deer's sense of smell is even more acute than a dog's is. Likewise for most game animals and even horses. Over the years, I've had horses I was riding scent bears and other game that were out of sight and more than a 1/4 mile away. By the time I got close enough to see them, the horse was usually going nutso, and I was doing a lot of work to maintain control. Sometimes, that's a difficult thing to do when you have a 5-horse pack string in tow. Whole-heartedly agree about the money wasted on Scent-Lok. I have an educational background in both chemistry and biology. So when I first read the claims about the carbon -- and expecially the reactivation in a dryer part -- I just shook my head. Worst of all, the carbon is probably already saturated by the time a guy buys it off the shelf since sealing out all odors during the manufacturing, shipping and sitting on shelves would be near impossible. Reactivating carbon takes HIGH heat that is not available in a household clothes dryer. And even at that, reactivation with HIGH heat is less than complete, normally resulting in about 70% of the previous reactivation. All a clothes dryer will do is remove any absorbed moisture. -TONY

Bathe? Wasted exercise since your body -- including your breath -- constantly and immediately produces more than 200 types of bacteria and odors that game, with a sense of smell hundreds of times better than ours, will smell. The ONLY answer is to stay downwind of game. -TONY

Tom, The early Kaibab hunts during the '60s and early '70s were some of the more memorble ones of the almost 50 years or so I have spent hunting big game. The fact my grandad, who was already in 70s, was always along and that my oldest son got his start on those hunts has a lot to do with it. And don't feel bad -- I haven't drawn a Kaibab permit over the last 20 years or more. -TONY You might want to check out the The Good Ol' Days thread, where Pollo Hombre and I talked about this particular hunt.

This is one of those questions where the answer is: the mileage may vary. In prime habitat with good forage, i.e. the result of ideal rainfall amounts, deer usually can get most of their water requirements from the food they eat and only occasionally will drink from free-standing water, i.e. tanks, ponds, springs or even puddles. But the latter will increase during dry conditions or when the temps go up, as it does during the summer months. The free-standing water needs will decrease during the winter, and even the morning dew is sometimes enough to meet a deer's daily needs, along with the browse, which produces water as a byproduct of digestion. Conclusion: deer can go for days without free-standing water or they can drink everyday or they can drink somewhere in between the extremes. -TONY

In reality, lead poisoning is quite widespread in terrestial birds (that's the non-waterfowl kind for the unscientific types) and has been well documented in more than 60 species, including both American eagle species, all raptors and yes, ravens, too. Many of these terrestial species are susceptable in two way -- either by ingesting the lead fragments while feeding on game carcasses or entrails or by picking up lead shot when they do their normal pecking for small stones or gravel to aid digestion. Pheasants, quail, chukars and wild turkeys have all suffered from lead poisoning as a result of the latter. The difference between the documentation between such birds and the highly controlled condor is the ability to KNOW when the poisoning or deaths occur. Obviously, the condors are closely monitored, which includes radios, etc. Eagles, raptors or other terrestial birds are happenstance discoveries, however. Thus, the magnitude of lead poisoning losses for individual terrestial species is difficult to quantify. As for knowing how the condors are ingesting lead from bullets and not trash, it's pretty simple. Those who know what they're doing can match lead types exactly by the particular isotopes in specific leads, including those used in shot and bullets. -TONY

This from the Gear chapter of "How To Hunt Coues Deer." MISCELLANEOUS It’s no doubt possible to fill this entire page with a list of goodies that will make your hunt just a tab easier, more comfortable or perhaps even more successful. On the other hand, each one of us probably has such a list already. At least I do. Here’s why. Years ago, I kept a sheet of paper on my desk, and every time I thought of something to take on a hunt, I wrote it down. After several months, the paper was full. So I sat at the computer and broke it down into various groupings such as camping gear, clothing, etc. etc. I even had a section for the stuff I carry in my backpack. Then I printed out a dozen copies and use one every time I go on a hunt as a reminder. Below are some of the items that normally go into my backpack. Rubber gloves Lip balm Duct tape Extra knife Extra ammo Seat cushion Space blanket Compass or GPS Light rain jacket Knife sharpener Nylon Cord (20’) Flashlight w/extra batteries Wad of tar paper (fire starter) Orange, trail-marking ribbon Lens cleaning fluid and paper Matches AND butane lighter Topo map of my area Camera w/extra film Large, self-sealing plastic bags High-energy snack bars Small folding saw

Lark, You might want to read up a bit on how avian critters get lead poisoning. It isn't from having lead embedded in their flesh, as yours is. The problem is more related to INGESTING lead FRAGMENTS, i.e. when bullets come apart in game animals or leave fragments behind, even with pass-throughs. Once a lead shot, bullet or fragments reach the GIZZARD -- an organ unique to avian species -- the acids there dissolve that lead, thus allowing it to easily enter the bloodstream and tissues. That doesn't happen in your shoulder. Plus, wounded deer also die without being found, so it isn't just gut-piled related bullets or fragments that are a concern. Here's some accurate information on the condor problem. Be sure to click on the red X-Ray link to see the extent of bullet fragmentation that occurs. -TONY

In reality, a large part of the lead problem in regards to hunting was addressed when the non-lead law for waterfowl became law in 1991. That happened after studies determined the lead shot was having ill effects on waterfowl. In contrast, the condor situation is a fairly recent one, with the first death in AZ from lead poisoning documented in 1999. Until they were released into the wild, no one could have forecast how lead bullets used for deer hunting would affect them because there was no data to go on. Now the problem, including the cause and effects, is known and needs to be addressed, much like the lead shot ban or the DDT ban that helped the bald eagle recovery. My guess is within a decade, all shot and bullets, regardless of what's HUNTED, will be of the non-lead types. Lead fishing weights might also disappear completely. -TONY

Dandy bull. Nice work. -TONY

Way to go, Christian. That's a super bull for a first one and even better for a first bow-killed one!! -TONY

Yup, few links but if you google the names, you'll find many of the others have web sites, too. I did a couple that way but none showed the writing or colors as you described them. Glad to hear your GF is fine, though. BTW, I had a similar incident happen to me in 2006 on the OK Turnpike when I was on the way home from a writer's conference. I was driving my wife's 2003 Durango rather than my truck, and the sky opened up with a torrential downpour. Traffic had slowed to about 35-40 MPH. I came up on two semis and because of the water they were kicking up, I could hardly see, even if I stayed 100 yards behind them. So I pulled into the left lane and slowly tried to pass them both. But as I got about half-way alongside the first one, he decided to pass the truck in front of him. At that point, all I could do was say, "Oh s__t, hit the brakes and swerve as far left as possible toward the concrete barrier, which is like the one on I-17 here -- about 3.5' high and unmoving. Welll...bad idea. There was so much water on the concrete pavement, the Durango hydroplaned and began turning in circles. The left front bounced off the concrete barrier at about a 45 deg. angle, then the car turned another 360, and the left rear hit the barrier. After one more loop, I finally was able to gain control and bring the Durango to a halt just before I would have gone down a steep embankment on the shoulder side. The semis just kept on trucking and probably never even knew what happened. A trucker behind me did stop to check on me. He couldn't get stopped until he had gone by at least a 1/4 mile. By the time he got back to me, he was drenched. Even though I didn't have my belt on, I was none the worse for wear. Besides cleaning out my pants, the only damage was a slight bump in the head when it hit the side window as the first impact occurred. I was really fortunate the airbag didn't deploy on that one. I just sat there, waiting for the rain to abate a bit. Then I got out and checked the damage. Most of what I could see was sheet metal, but it did take out the left headlight. So...I drove it along the shoulder for a few miles to make sure, then eventually got back in traffic to reach the next service plaza, where I called the OK state cops and reported the incident. The officer listened to my story and just gave me a blank citation with his name and phone in case the insurance company had a question. He told me if he wrote a real report, he would have to cite me for driving faster than the conditions allowed or some such thing. All worked out fine with Farmers, however, to the tune of almost $8,000 in repairs. It was dark when I got home. The worst feeling occurred the next day when my wife, who was driving my Dodge Quadcab, came into the house from work and asked if I had noticed the tire on the OPPOSITE front from the side that had made contact with the wall. I went out and saw that the tread of what had been a fairly new tire was worn right down to the steel belt. In fact, parts of it were already frayed and sticking out every which way. When I thought about cruising down the Sunset Point hill into Black Canyon City at 85 mph, I got a bit queasy. The other tire was also badly worn on the outside edge because the front end had gotten WAY out of alignment. Obviously, it ain't as banged up as Ingrid's car, but a lot of the damage was hidden, especially at the back end, which was worse than it looks in the photo. Besides the obvious, the entire frame around the radiator, the hood, grill, both left side wheels and several front-end components needed to be replaced. At the back, the whole bumper system and door frame around the hatch was replaced. -TONY

If I recall, at least 12 condors in AZ alone have died from lead poisoning, and many others survived after being treated at the Phoeniz Zoo. -TONY

Here's one list I found: Trucking Companies beginning with "L"

Are they off-road or street tires? -TONY They are street Tires and are now priced at $500 for the set and would even consider delivering them to the phoenix area. I'll pass. I need tires but not the street types. -TONY

Yeah, we'll see what happens down the road. Maybe the main benefactor will even attend. -TONY

Okay, it's official folks. The party at my place will take place on Sat., Sept 29, 2007 from 5:30 p.m. until whenever I decide to kick everybody out of the house, which is located near 67th Ave. and Camelback Rd. in Glendale. Cost will be $5 per PERSON (payable at the door) and will include an array of edibles -- munchies, appetizers, cold meats, sandwich rolls, salads, etc. etc. Drinks will include a variety of beer, wine and pop. See preferences below. Now, this thread is for POSITIVE RSVPs ONLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So please do not clutter it up with questions or other comments, such as, "Maybe I'll be there if the planets align properly" or "I can't make it because my cat is having kittens that day." Use the Tony's Party Questions thread in this section for these. It also contains other info on the auction and binocular testing session. You'll be able to RSVP up until two days before the party, but the sooner the better. I will provide the exact address and directions the week of the party via a PM to everyone. Copy/paste the part below into your RSVP reply here and fill in the blanks below each. I'll acknowledge the RSVP via a PM here. FIRST & LAST name(s) for those attending: Pick the one(s) below applicable for anyone listed above: Beer Brand Preference: Soda Brand Preference: Wine Preference (White or Red):

DUE TO THE LACK OF INTEREST.......... I'm postponing the party to some future date not yet determined. -TONY

DUE TO THE LACK OF INTEREST.......... I'm postponing the party to some future date not yet determined. -TONY