Outdoor Writer

Jim, I thought it was you. Got the info. I want to let Craig know that his pix of his big bull went full-page in the Aug. issue of RM G&F magazine. Thanks. -TONY

I feel really deprived. I've been wandering around AZ's deserts for more than 45 years and have yet to encounter a Gila monster. I have, however, found all the rattlesnakes I need thanks. -TONY

Ron, Just received my copy of the August RM G&F issue with the article on your deer in it. Turned out good; they used three photos. It likely will be on the newstands shortly. I think Fry's Grocery carries it. -TONY

I'm working on a Kaibab mule deer piece right now. Writing up three bucks killed by Duwane Adams' clients during the early hunt last fall. -TONY

Houston, Ignore my question in the other thread. -TONY

Houston, Did you see the RM G&F article about your elk in the July issue? Ron, If I recall, the article on your deer will be in the next issue --Aug. -TONY

Oh come on. Let's get real here. The article in yesterday's Republic quoted two illegals who are part of an 10-man concrete laying crew. One was the boss, and six others on the same crew are also illegals. One member of this forum who no longer lives in AZ worked at a produce farm in Tolleson. One day he brought out about 8 of his workers to gather up some furniture, carpet, etc. that I was getting rid of. The only one who spoke any English was the head guy. Do you think the owner of that farm didn't know that most of his workers were illegals? My son is a banquet manager at one of the Point resorts. Nearly every one of his set-up people are KNOWN illegals. All the contractors also know the status of those day workers they pick up at Home Depot each day. It's merely a case of the same 'don't ask, don't tell' policy the military uses. The current problem: there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING now in place to deter the hiring of illegals, and if you think the miracle cure is enforcing the current laws by rounding up and deporting the 12 million illegals in this country, I have some beach-front property in Gila Bend to sell you. It will never happen because there isn't enough manpower, money and other resources to do that, and there never will be. That's especially true of space in Sheriff Joe's Tent City. The fact of the matter is simple: eliminate the jobs and the illegals either move to another state or go home to Mexico. As for forged docs, that's an easy one; when an employer uses the database that's already in place, it must be set up to keep a record of the input information, including the employer's name or assigned number. Thus, if that employee later turns out to be an illegal with forged docs, the employer is off the hook because the database will show he checked the person on such & such a date. This will also take care of the small percentage of errors the database supposedly produces -- at least until it's up to snuff. Also, don't forget that forged docs will have to match-up with real ones now, i.e. a legit SSN AND NAME in the database. As a result, the forged docs can only mimic ones already in existence but belonging to someone else, which amounts to identity theft. That makes it a bit more difficult since the theft will pretty much have to be an Hispanic surname. As it is now with no checks in place, a forger simply creates an SSN with the illegal's real name as if he or she just got it. "Policing" employees will be no different than gun stores now do when clearing firearms sales through the database. Their only police job after that is to say to his potential employee, "Sorry, but your name and SSN is not in the database, so I can't put you to work." Any further policing is relegated to the authorities, just as you say. I certainly agree that the law the gov signed is not perfect and needs much refining. If nothing else, it will surely get the attention of the pols in D.C., and as more states pass a hodgepodge of similar laws, perhaps Congress will finally act on something meaningful.-TONY

Tam, Everything you wrote was dead on until you got to the above. The bill was written and promoted by CONSERVATIVES, not liberals. The governor had little choice but to sign it, given her prior comments on cracking down on employers, and the fact the bill's sponsors would have used any veto by the gov to burn her in the town square. -TONY

This would be one of the loads I would sight about 1 inch high at 25 yards. You didn't provide all the info, so I used a factory round with a MV of 2,800 fps, 165-gr. spitzer bullet with .407 bullet coefficent at an altitude of 2,500'. Your first zero would be at 12-15 yards and the downrange second zero is 250 yds., and it basically gives you a nice 8-9" point-blank range from 0-300 yards. The second chart is for a 25 yd. zero, which is about like sighting in for 100 yards. -TONY 0 2800 -0.75 10 2774 -0.11 20 2754 0.49 30 2733 1.04 40 2712 1.55 50 2692 2.01 60 2672 2.42 70 2652 2.78 80 2631 3.09 90 2611 3.35 100 2591 3.57 110 2572 3.72 120 2552 3.82 130 2532 3.88 140 2513 3.88 150 2493 3.81 160 2474 3.7 170 2455 3.53 180 2436 3.31 190 2417 3.01 200 2398 2.67 210 2379 2.26 220 2360 1.79 230 2341 1.25 240 2323 0.66 250 2304 0 260 2286 -0.72 270 2268 -1.52 280 2250 -2.38 290 2232 -3.31 300 2213 -4.31 310 2195 -5.39 320 2177 -6.53 330 2160 -7.74 340 2142 -9.03 350 2124 -10.4 Zero at 25 yds. 0 2800 -0.5 10 2774 -0.27 20 2754 -0.08 30 2733 0.07 40 2712 0.17 50 2692 0.21 60 2672 0.21 70 2652 0.17 80 2631 0.07 90 2611 -0.08 100 2591 -0.27 110 2572 -0.52 120 2552 -0.83 130 2532 -1.18 140 2513 -1.59 150 2493 -2.07 160 2474 -2.59 170 2455 -3.17 180 2436 -3.8 190 2417 -4.5 200 2398 -5.25 210 2379 -6.07 220 2360 -6.95 230 2341 -7.89 240 2323 -8.89 250 2304 -9.97 260 2286 -11.1 270 2268 -12.3 280 2250 -13.57 290 2232 -14.91 300 2213 -16.32 310 2195 -17.8 320 2177 -19.35 330 2160 -20.97 340 2142 -22.67 350 2124 -24.45

I don't have time this morning to address many of the comments and questions because I'm headed off to Arrowhead Hospital in a bit so a nice Swedish blond lady can carve on my torso a bit. So hang loose for a day or two and I shall return. In the meantime, here are a couple more questions to think about in regards to "trophy hunting." I'm curious to hear opinions on why hunting a trophy deer or elk has anything to do with the season. IOW, let's take a Dec. Coues hunt; do the trophies magically appear in certain units for Xmas parties, or what? Where are they when the Oct. and Nov. seasons occur? Same questions for the big bulls during the rut hunts; do they go "poof" and disappear during the later seasons? Or...perhaps because the actual hunting takes less effort is the reason these are considered "trophy hunts?" Lastly, pasted below are the figures for many years of permits stats. Mull them over a bit and then we'll talk about them when I return. Pay attention especially to the number of 1st chice applicants to the number of permits being issued over the last few years. Now everyone play nice while I'm "incapacitated." -TONY Historical - General Year 1stC Permits issued 1971 - 77437 1972 66905 74096 1973 83334 75200 1974 79664 82650 1975 80929 79750 1976 86829 83125 1977 83593 84265 1978 84017 81675 1979 85072 78215 1980 94285 79409 1981 92679 77755 1982 91673 83045 1983 71826 94285 1984 72989 92545 1985 80014 92345 1986 82982 94871 1987 84145 87340 More Recent General 2000 85091 46072 2001 83808 44978 2002 84384 42020 2003 86546 37260 2004 90057 36665 2005 83264 37918 2006 85534 3813(0) There was misprint elimnating a # on this one. Junior 2000 2427 1250 2001 2571 1625 2002 2863 1510 2003 2855 980 2004 2815 1030 2005 2634 1280 2006 2581 1332 Muzzleloader Historical 1984 424 950 1985 263 950 1986 337 950 1987 402 750 1988 556 1000 1989 877 1250 1990 713 1139 1991 772 1181 Muzzleloader More Recent 2000 1489 915 2001 1456 869 2002 1775 995 2003 1585 745 2004 1896 783 2005 1498 859 2006 1724 924 Archery - Tags sold 2000 25338 2001 23783 2002 23082 2003 22447 2004 22675 2005 22949

Bob, That's a good bullet. Although I shot 10 of the 12 critters I killed in Africa with my .264, I used 180-Core-Lokts in my .300 Win mag for the other two. And I have 3 boxes of 140- grainers sitting behind me that are for the new, never-fired Rem. 700 Ti in 7mm SAUM that I want to sell. -TONY

Doug, Those figures don't surprise me at all. It seems obvious to me that when hunters know they can easily get a less desireable tag, they will apply for the most desireable hunt as first choce. It's a no-brainer. Any idea how many of the 51% for the late hunts had a less desireable hunt for their other choice(s)?? And...there are probably lots of folks who apply for the Kaibab or Strip as 1st choice and a whitetail hunt as 2nd, 3rd, etc. That was my way until I realized I was eating up my bonus points by applying for Coues and getting it. Now, only two deer choices -- Kaibab and Kaibab -- even though the draw odds are what -- like 3%? Nothing much has changed over the last 45 years since I started hunting in AZ, even when we were handing out almost 100,000 deer tags per year in the early 1980s! Now we have MORE people vying for a 1/3 the number of permits. That means a LOT of people who want to hunt deer aren't getting to hunt deer but would if they have a chance at any permit -- even one of those less desireable hunts. I'm guessing that's why all the leftovers disappear quickly when the first-come sale kicks off. The same occurs with elk on the rut hunts on a smaller scale, of course. In this case, though, the 2nd and 3rd choices on those apps usually go unfulfilled because of so few permits in the "less desireable" elk hunts. Curious, -- I should know this but don't -- how many members in the ADA? -TONY

Amanda, Does ADA know how many deer tags go unsold after the draw and second chance sale? Also, does ADA have any idea of the number of people that apply for the Dec. hunts as first choice and those early "100%" hunts or other "less desirable" ones as 2nd, 3rd, 4th or 5th choices ? And...does ADA have a total for the folks who apply for a deer tag in AZ and do not draw or get one from the 2nd chance sale but would get one if there were more "less deireable" tags. Lastly, would ADA be in favor of eliminating deer baiting to cut the harvest down in lieu of going to limited archery permits?? -TONY

I hope you're right on the sheep, Mike. I think I have about 16 or 17 points now. Of course, I'd bet a lot of folks applied online before it went belly up, too. If I had applied when I had originally planned to, I would have been in fat city with buffalo, too. As it turned out, the day I decided to apply is when they shut it down. Ron, I thought of buying a sheep point, too, because I might be taking a real 9-5, 40-hr per week job that won't allow me the time to hunt. But this might be the right year for me to draw, as Mike said. -TONY

I'm applying for only deer and sheep. Buying a bonus point for buff because I can't afford the $1000+ for a bull tag right now. Maybe next year, it'll go back online with only the app fee again. The desert sheep and buff are my two remaing critters for the original AZ 10. I have a Gould's from Mexico, so I'll likely never hunt them here. That's likely the same for RM bighorn, though I might at least try --IF I ever draw a desert. -TONY

bobbyo That'll work just fine. As I had said earlier, your mileage will vary, and for the flatter shooting calibers, dead on at 25 is good. That's about what the .264 and .270 charts I posted show with actual zeros between 20 and 30 yds. The two KEY factors are KNOWING the range and where the bullet will hit at that range. And wind drift, which can be substancial at the longer ranges, also plays a BIG part. What weight bullet are you using -- 165? -TONY

The two computer-generated trajectory charts below were set-up for a 300-yd. zero, as Doug had suggested. I pasted the figures out to only 400 yards. The first is for my .264 mag shooting a 140-gr. bullet and the second is for my son's .270 with a 130-gr. bullet. The third column is the impact point. Note the approximate zero distances in the bold numbers. And...another thing worth noting is the similiarity of the .264s ballistics to the .270, albeit with a bullet that is 10 grs. lighter. The energy data isn't very different either. Both have a point-blank range out to about 370 yards with an 11" or so impact area. -TONY .264 -- 140 gr. Range Velocity Impact 0 3030 -1.5 10 3001 -0.8 20 2977 -0.13 30 2954 0.49 40 2931 1.09 50 2908 1.63 60 2885 2.14 70 2862 2.6 80 2840 3.03 90 2817 3.4 100 2795 3.74 110 2772 4.03 120 2750 4.27 130 2728 4.47 140 2706 4.62 150 2685 4.72 160 2663 4.78 170 2641 4.78 180 2620 4.75 190 2599 4.65 200 2577 4.5 210 2556 4.3 220 2535 4.05 230 2514 3.74 240 2493 3.39 250 2473 2.96 260 2452 2.49 270 2432 1.95 280 2411 1.37 290 2391 0.71 300 2371 0 310 2351 -0.78 320 2331 -1.61 330 2311 -2.52 340 2292 -3.48 350 2272 -4.52 360 2253 -5.62 370 2233 -6.79 380 2214 -8.02 390 2195 -9.34 400 2175 -10.72 .270 -- 130 gr. Range Velocity Impact 0 3060 -1.5 10 3029 -0.8 20 3005 -0.15 30 2981 0.48 40 2957 1.05 50 2933 1.6 60 2909 2.09 70 2885 2.56 80 2862 2.97 90 2838 3.35 100 2815 3.68 110 2792 3.97 120 2769 4.21 130 2746 4.41 140 2723 4.57 150 2700 4.66 160 2678 4.73 170 2655 4.73 180 2633 4.69 190 2611 4.59 200 2589 4.45 210 2567 4.25 220 2545 4.01 230 2524 3.7 240 2502 3.35 250 2481 2.93 260 2459 2.47 270 2438 1.93 280 2417 1.35 290 2396 0.71 300 2375 0 310 2354 -0.76 320 2334 -1.6 330 2313 -2.49 340 2293 -3.46 350 2272 -4.48 360 2252 -5.58 370 2232 -6.74 380 2212 -7.97 390 2192 -9.27 400 2172 -10.65

I had seen your chart earlier, which of course wouldn't pertain to every caliber. One thing I didn't mention in my other message: I generally sight 3/4 to 1" high at 25 yds., thus the figures I gave. Doing that gives me a zero farther downrange, as Doug had suggested earlier in this thread. Having and KNOWING your point-blank range almost eliminates the need to hold under or over on larger big-game animals as long as you also know where the vitals are and can shoot accurately. Of course, you also either have to judge ranges well or use a rangefinder in some situations. Lastly, even if you sight at 25 yds., it's always a good idea to then shoot at the longer distances because each rifle and caliber might react differently than what a ballistics chart/program will tell you. -TONY

Bingo! I've sighted my rifles like this for 40-plus years. With a fairly flat-shooting round, you'll be high from 25 out to somewhere between 250 and 300 yards, where the bullet will again be at zero. From there on out it's below line of sight. This will usually provide about 8-10" point blank zone with the bullet hitting anywhere from 4-5" high to 4-5" low from 0 to 375-400 yds. Your mileage will vary depending on the caliber. -TONY

The person who is in the "A" spot (the one whose CC was used for the app fees) will likely be responsible to pay the FULL amount. No total -- no tags. So that person will have to collect all the money and go get a cashier's check or money order. I don't believe G&F will accept cash but they might if one goes to the office in person. -TONY

The government bureacracy, known as PEMEX, is so deep in debt, it can't even refine its own gas. In fact, it ships crude all over to get refined and then brings it back into Mexico for use. Plus, its oil reserves, including the 2nd largest field in the world, are drying up, which translates to a cutback in crude exported to the US. Now, there might be lots of other places in Mexico with huge reserves, BUT...PEMEX can't afford to look for them and refuses to allow private companies to do it either. -TONY

You can buy a digital recorder from about $30 on up to $500! I use an Olympus WS-310 that cost me about $100. It will record up to 138 hrs. Do a Google search and also check out eBay and Amazon.com. Prior to going digital, I used a mini-cassette recorder for years. A recorder makes keeping notes on the details of a hunt or a photo expedition a snap, which is crucial to what I do. -TONY

If you guys buy and carry a small digital recorder in your pocket, you'll save lots of paper and gather many more details of your hunts. It's also great for recording details of a scouting trip, especially if you use the recorder along with a GPS unit. -TONY

Covering several replies here: First, thanks to all. If anyone is ever in the neighborhood of 67th Ave. & Camelback, including you Amanda , feel free to stop by and say hi. My # is in the book! Doug, You're right; lots of memories in that room that go back to the early 1960s when I first began hunting in AZ. In fact, that mulie doe hanging next to the big buck was killed by my now 45-yr. old son on the N. Kaibab when he was 11! There are lots of miles and money represented in those two rooms. Many of the critters I killed in the 60s and early 70s were mounted by Fred Campbell, who had a shop in Avondale. He died quite a few years ago. In the 1980s and 90s, Bob Peers (actually Chris Harlow when he worked for Peers) did most of them, and since then Marc Plunkett at Wildlife Creations has done them. When Marc delivered my red stag a while back, he walked into the new addition and proclaimed it as the Plunkett museum because he had mounted everything in it. He's also doing the tahr, chamois and wallaby. Haywire, Neat fox mount. Coues 'n' Sheep, Nice layout. Love the Dall mount. And to everyone else who posted photos: Some super stuff. Keep after them! -TONY P.S. I went back and edited the message with the pix by adding some descriptive text about some of the critters and where they came from.

The first batch of pix are older ones of my original trophy room. It's a bit rearranged now but pretty much has the same critters. The second batch below the ***s is a new addition I added on to my family room last year to house my African/NZ critters. Still have a tahr, chamois and life-size wallaby at the taxidermist. -TONY Old trophy room: I originally built this one as an indoor spa room and then did all the remodeling work, including building the cabinets and end tables, which are made from 50-yr. old recycled pine paneling from a downtown Phoenix landmark that was razed when Chase Field was built. The chest in a later photo is also something I built. This is through the entry from the living room, which once was a 6'-wide sliding door. AZ blackbear rug on the wall with my grandfather's Parker Bros. 10 ga. Coyote has a Gambel's quail in it's mouth. There are bear skulls, blackbuck horns, a couple small whitetail racks and Mexico Coues deer rack scattered about. The turkey is an eastern from MO, but I didn't do anything with the Merriam's, Rio Grande, Osceola or Gould's that I also killed over the years. On the wall with the tom are a pair of Mearns quail, chukar and flying ringneck. Photo from the entry toward the left. BC blackbear hides hanging in the corner and covering the armchair in lower left corner. A mountain lion hide drapes the chest and a blackbuck hide covers the end table. That's a Russian boar in the upper left next to my best mulie buck, which is hung next to a mulie doe. Antlers on the lamp shade are an SCI book blacktail buck (CA) that wasn't officially entered because I don't do record books. Photo from the entry to the right. 5X6 elk antlers in corner and horns from a Santa Cruz Island Merino ram on the table atop a hairless deer hide. Fish over bear is a 14# brown trout, Alaskan pike upper right is 23 lbs. That's a bobcat rug on the wall and just the very bottom of a BC mountain caribou showing. Photo of wall over the entry. NWT central barren ground 'bou to the left and an AK barren ground in the middle. Lower left are my first Coues deer, a javelina and 3.5# grayling from a river that runs into Great Bear Lake, NWT. Whitetail is from MO, mulie is my first mule deer buck, killed in 1961. BC 60" moose and the nose of a 34# lake trout from the Yukon to the right. The two exotic sheep behind the moose are a Corsican and a black Hawaiian. The antlers below the moose are a small 4x4 mulie. Two AZ 'lopes and a TX whitetail. North Kaibab buck and his mate. Little Coues buck on plaque. Coues deer on left, my first AZ 'lope (1963)in the middle and a Montana 'lope on the right. BC bear, which is now in the new room. African Skulls/horns scattered about are mounted now and hang in the new room, as well. ***** This is the new 14'x32' addition to the old family room to the left. The big archway was originally the rear wall of the house. L to R: Nyala, warthog, black wildebeest, blesbuck, kudu, red stag, gemsbok, impala and blue wildebeest out of the frame to the right. springbok, bushbuck