Outdoor Writer

I'll be roamin' round the show on Sat. too. I'll stop by and say hello. -TONY

Since I DO know the man and have for more than 30 years, I'll clear up some erroneous statements before I leave for Mexico to catch some bass in the morning. Zumbo is a wildlife biologist . In fact, he has two degrees -- one in forestry and another in wildlife management. He worked for the BLM out of Vernal, Utah as a forester and wildlife biologist for 15 years. Long before he got "famous," thus getting all the perks of that status, he paid his own way and SUCCESSFULLY hunted in many places and for many critters on his own. That's how he became a hunting writer. Now I'm outta here until next week sometime. Have a great week. -TONY

Can you say $$$$$$$$$$? Now.... What Jim said and the words he used were wrong! I've corresponded with him this week, and he knows he was wrong in how he expressed his thoughts in calling for a BAN of ARs for hunting because of the image they represent even though they are little different than any semi-auto hunting rifle such as the 7400 Rem. He also now knows he deserved to be called on the carpet for his unfortunate, hasty words, but even after he apologized, he never thought Zumbogate would result in the devastation of his life. He was especially concerned with the zealots who posted personal information such as his phone and address all over the web, considering some of his detractors went so far as to issue death threats. In reality, if we list the negatives and positives that resulted from this sordid affair in two columns, the positive side wouldn't be a very long list. In fact, I can't think of one item to put there. -TONY

Since you asked, here are my thoughts on it, as I posted on two other chat boards yesterday. The one below is from Monster Muleys. -TONY ******** Despite the risk of vilification, I'll repost a message I put on another board a while ago. Ignore the part between the **s since it's an answer to another message about an elk permit Jim received in AZ during and BECAUSE of the USO fiasco. Rather than use it, he ate it and disengaged himself from any dealings with USO. -TONY ** Doc, Great. Glad you found it. Jim told me much the same during an unrelated phone conversation right after he had received the AZ permit.** Jim and I have been good friends ever since we were introduced to each other by a peer in Yellowstone NP. I believe that was in 1975. We're both dagos, the same age, and if I recall we also share the same BD! How time flies when you're getting old. Through the years, we've spent many days together and shared meals and toddies. We've served on the board of directors together of at least two organizations, and most recently Jim, myself and eight others were put in charge to start a new media organization that supported the traditional shooting, hunting, fishing and trapping sports. The 10 of us met in Alabama for three days, and the result was the Professional Outdoor Media Association (POMA) The impetus for this happened because the board of another writers' organization came down on the NRA president for comments he made at a banquet in regards to the Sierra Club. As members of that organization for more than 30 years, both Jim and I were two of the most vehement detractors of that board's action. As a result, 500 or so members followed us as we resigned our long-standing memberships. The NRA, Remington, The Outdoor Channel and many other corporations who supported that group also resigned their affiliations and helped start POMA in 2005. The mission and charter of POMA, which Jim helped craft, read: MISSION STATEMENT The Professional Outdoor Media Association, Inc. is a group of individual communicators and Corporate Partners who believe in, defend, support and promote the heritage of hunting, fishing, shooting and traditional outdoor sports through writing, photography and other means. By doing so, members hope to educate the general public about these sports and encourage more participation in them. The organization serves the membership by helping members grow professionally, improve their skills, better their working environments and enhance their businesses. **** IRREVOCABLE CHARTER In January 2005, at a combined meeting during the Safari Club International (SCI) convention and the Shooting, Hunting, Outdoor Trade (SHOT) show, outdoor communicators elected a steering committee of their peers for the purpose of creating a new national outdoor media organization. The committee met in May 2005 at White Oak Plantation near Tuskegee, Alabama and formed the Professional Outdoor Media Association (POMA). The organization offers a congenial, collegial atmosphere to its members and provides them meaningful services including education in craft, improvement in business practices, tools to enhance efficiency and profits along with extensive networking opportunities. Members are committed to preserving the sanctity of freedom of speech and the right of individuals to keep and bear arms; fostering ethical standards in business dealings, communications and the codes by which they personally abide when afield; maintaining the integrity, understanding and enjoyment of traditional hunting, fishing, trapping and shooting activities. POMA recognizes the important role that industry and members of the conservation community play in the perpetuation of outdoor sports. The organization acknowledges the mutually beneficial relationship individual and Corporate Partners enjoy as members Finally, we honor the memory of the great hunting, fishing, trapping and shooting communicators from the past and pledge to perpetuate the heritage of our profession. **** Unfortunately, in this fiasco, the almighty $$$$ ruled. Sadly, the same folks Jim stood behind decided to make him the sacrificial lamb, or perhaps roadkill would be more apropos. Despite the outcry over the ignorance Jim showed, he ain't the enemy of the 2nd amendment or any other thing that entails shooting, guns and hunting. I no way condone or support what he said. In fact, we have corresponded since this started, so I know what he MEANT to say. Plus, I know the man and his principles. Some here and on the other chat boards could learn a lot from him. No doubt right now Sarah's minions are perusing this and other boards and selecting some of the messages (and boy, are there some doozies from some foul-mouthed slobs), so the REAL enemies can stand up during the debate about the present AR ban bill and read them. Of course, they will probably do so only so they can say, "See what we mean? Are these really the type of people who should own these types of destructive weapons?" Lastly, some think this event will unite ALL gun owners, hunters included. Guess what? I'd bet the divide will widen even more over it. In fact, it's already showing up all over the Web. It's a sad day for all sportsmen when the ruination of the life of a friend of hunters, shooters and ALL FIREARMS OWNERS is applauded with glee and touted as the best thing since the invention of smokeless powder. And don't think the real enemy isn't watching that either and laughing out loud about the cannabilistic "assault rifle nuts." Frankly, I'm rather ashamed by it; no, make that appalled by it. But heck, what do I know. I'm just another know-nothing outdoor writer who has now opened himself up for the same venom and vulgar comments Zumbo received. Have fun, but don't expect me to respond to any of it. -TONY

I don't know much about the West Elk either. I did hunt deer & elk in the national forest adjacent to it about 12 years ago. Didn't see a lot of game but saw enough to pass a on few small bulls and bucks because I was hunting only trophy-class stuff. Given that I'm not familiar with two of the three areas, there's no way I can make any comparisons about the quantity of game for all three. I've also hunted the Selway-Bitterroot in Idaho via Hamilton, MT. It's rugged country, and you won't see near as many people in it as you do in Colorado. But if you like to hunt with a rifle, you can do it there during the elk rut. Not sure about archery tags, but the gun tags are by draw if I recall. I had no problem getting one because I hunted with an outfitter friend there, and they have a set-aside for their clients. Photo below. -TONY

I thought that was still the case with deer tags. If I recall, the entire state went on the draw system for deer in either 2003 or 2004. Now, I'm only guessing here, but I imagine the odds of drawing an archery tag for deer in the Weminuche are pretty darn good. I can't help you on the San Juan at all because I've never been there. I heard it's pretty rugged, though. One thing to keep in mind, however: You will have to decide LONG before you do your scouting if you plan to put in for the drawing. I think the application deadline for limited licenses is sometime in early April! Lastly, I googled the Weminuche book I mentioned above and found a bunch of copies available at various web sites. -TONY

Hmmm, where did you find that the deer licenses are OTC? This from the 2006 regs in the Big game deer section: DEER LICENSES LIMITED All deer licenses are limited, available only by drawing for specific units. Only legal hand-held bows can be used during archery season. Only legal muzzleloading rifles and smoothbore muskets can be used during muzzleloading seasons. 75 Archery Aug.26-Sept.24 Either sex D-E-075-O1-A License valid in units 75, 751 Much of the snow is gone from the lower, south-facing areas by mid-June. BUT...my horse has waded through 2' drifts on the north sides at higher elevations as late as mid-July, and in some places the snow is never gone. But that's generally where no one dares tread. And...if you hike in early, you'll be fording quite a few creeks that are swollen with run-off. That said, unless you're just scouting to find a camp, I wouldn't put too much stock on where you find game in late spring or early summer. The critters move progresively higher as the temps go up and will likely still be at those higher elevations during the archery season unless a sudden, early storm forces them to move down. Some of the biggest bucks I've seen in the Weminuche were hanging out above timberline in August. If you look at a map of the Weminuche trail system, search for the Continental Divide Trail. The photo with me and my son on horseback overlooking Donut Lake was taken about 200 yards from the trail itself. The mountains in the background are a couple "14teeners." The other photo of my buddy with the packhorse is also near the CD trail. It doesn't look much like deer country, but believe me when I say they are there. Of course, it's not a real good place for a bowhunter since it's devoid of trees and has very little cover. Plus, it's a LONG way from the major trailheads I mentioned. A couple other decent areas are along the Rock Lake trail and the Johnson Creek Trail off the Vallecito Trail that goes up to Columbine Pass. Lots of goats up JC, too. I'm not sure if it's still available, but "A Backpacking Guide to The Weminuche Wilderness" by Dennis Gebhardt has excellent maps of the trail system in it. -TONY

If you do the bit with your girlfriend and her son, you might as well forget the part about "scarce hunters." The edges get hammered, especially from the Lemon and Vallecito Lake areas where numerous campgrounds are located. Plus, the Weminuche is pretty rugged country once you get off the main trails. Coupled with the 9,000+ elevations, it can make for tough hiking for folks who aren't accustomed to that altitude. The backpacker situation is more a problem in mid-summer. The crowds pretty much dissipate by late August and early Sept., when the archery season takes place in Unit 751. But even earlier, as you say, it never appears crowded. The backpackers normally stay on the trails and camp in the more popular areas around the various lakes and such. The horse packer option is your best bet. There is at least one based at Vallecito that I know about. They will haul you and all your gear to the spot you pick, then come back and haul you back out. Not sure if it's still the case, but the packer there also used to offer a drop camp option, which saves hauling all your own gear and includes a wood-burning stove and cut wood. The ride into some of the better hunting areas is anywhere from 5-10 hrs. If you walk the same distances, it would take at least twice as long. Also, although the archery elk licenses for that unit are over-the-counter and unlimited, I believe you now have to draw an archery deer tag. Anyway, if you have more questions or need suggestions on where to hunt if you opt to camp within the Weminuche, just holler. Here are some older pix of the Weminuche high country. -TONY

Mattys, I lived on the edge of the Weminuche at Vallecito Lake for 3 years and guided hunters in the wilderness. I know it very well since I've traipsed over about every mile of trail in it on horseback at one time or another. I also guided elk & deer hunters north of Durango in the Hermosa Creek area of the San Juans behind the ski area. I don't know anything about the West Elk, though. If you hunt the wilderness areas, do you plan to pack in and camp, or....? -TONY

Very nice trophy!!! -TONY

Jim, Great bucks and photos. You guys did really good! -TONY

So back to serious. Obviously in more than 45 years of hunting throughout Arizona, I've often treaded on new ground. This is especially true since the permit system went into effect; in some cases, my son and I have had to settle for the leftovers. When that happens, the BEST approach is to do your homework by researching the area, i.e. READING and using the phone to talk to biologists, guides and other hunters. Few places in this state are secret when it comes to the general areas within a hunt unit. Anyone with some knowledge and research will discover certain mountain ranges, and specific areas within them, harbor critters -- regardless of whether they are deer, javelina, elk or Mearns' quail. Of course, those who have hunted in the same general areas a few times will soon develop their 'honey holes,' as you called them. Many times we've hunted new territory even in units where we had hunted numerous times in the past. A good example is 36B, where we've killed most of our Coues bucks. Another is the Kaibab, when getting a permit there was fairly easy back in the 60s and early 70s. Back then, there was no east and west; it was merely unit 12. So over the years, we hunted about everywhere on the plateau. The one year we didn't get drawn for the Kaibab early on, we hunted the Strip -- a new area we had to research! Once someone does his seat-of-the-pants research, the next step should be the on-the-ground type; get your butt out there and find either the sign or the critters themselves. It's not too difficult to tell when you're in a good spot. For the most part, though, I think most hunters are habitual; they hunt the same unit and spots repeatedly because they feel comfortable doing it. They have learned where the roads and trails lead and found good glassing spots, etc. This is probably why many of us get in a rut when it comes to switching to new hunt units or even areas within a unit. Everyone wants to tag a buck, and the best way to do that is by using accumulated knowledge and experience. -TONY

Gino, You need to follow behind all those 5th graders carrying the "How to Hunt Coues Deer" book! -TONY

I guess mine is self-explanatory. Been doing it full-time now for the last 23 years and part-time for 16 years earlier. And I've been lucky to get the same handle on most of the sites I have joined. -TONY

Right, no one but a few hunters in AZ know where the "honey holes" are. Anyone who believes that is living is lala land. Now, if we had sold 50,000 books, you might have a point; we didn't, though. And I'd bet most guys who bought the book already had their own "honey holes" anyway. That goes even for the ones with 5th grade educations that write, "Next time you right (sic) a book...." The bigger problem is the continuous loss of habitat shrinking the available areas to hunt deer. Thus, more hunters concentrate in what is left. Units such as 34A and 34B are prime examples. If they continue to erect housing up the sides of the mountain in 34A, the only place left to hunt will be on the peak where the Lowell Observatory sits. Same thing with the other side of I-19 in 34B -- my favorite area. Although I haven't traipsed through every unit in the state recently, I would certainly venture a guess that no hunting unit has been immune to the above. This is especially true for the Coues deer units, many of which are in close proximity to the major population centers. -TONY

Below is an excerpt from The Trophy chapter of HOW TO HUNT COUES DEER, written by me and Duwane. Amanda sells the book here on CouesWhitetail.com -TONY FIELD JUDGING The limited time each of us spends in the woods every year makes it difficult to practice antler judging, especially if we see only a few deer on those outings. The most useful knowledge is an awareness of the average body and antler measurements for the species. Then if you know what it takes for a trophy-class buck, there’s some basis for comparison. The typical Coues rack generally has five points or fewer per side. A front view provides the best for judging antler spread. Mature bucks have a tip-to-tip ear spread of 12 to 14 inches. If the inside spread of the main beams reaches the end of each ear, that’s about 13 inches. The world record was only 15 3/8 inches. For every inch one antler goes past an ear, double it and add it to the 13 inches. In other words, if the main beam is an inch wider on one side, add two inches for an inside spread of 15 inches. The ear averages six inches from the tip to where it joins the head. It makes a good gauge for the tine lengths. If the longest tine looks to be as long as an ear, it will measure about six inches. The most difficult guesstimate is the length of the main beams because some grow at weird angles. The way to come close is using multiples of the ear length or the eye-to-nose distance, which is about seven or eight inches. Or simply compare the main beam to the length of longest point. The other important considerations are mass and symmetry. Neither are easy to judge at a distance in the field and usually comes to a ‘you'll know it when you see it’ situation. Years of scrutinizing hundreds of bucks through his binoculars have convinced Duwane of one thing. “Reading a magazine article or looking at a score sheet won’t teach anyone how to field judge a buck. There’s only one way to learn how to judge antlers successfully, and that’s through experience. You have to do it often and know what to look for. A guy can start with mounted heads and play a game of ‘guess how big,’ but the final exam has to take place in the wild. Scoring a buck at 500 yards through binoculars or a spotting scope will be vastly different than doing it up close and personal,” he said. “The first thing to look at is the mass and height. Then check out the third point. A long one usually translates to a deer you would want to shoot. If a buck has a fourth point, three other factors come into play. First, the length of the point counts. Also, the measurement for the last quarter will fall between the third and fourth point instead of between the second and third. Lastly, bucks with the additional point generally have a long main beam,” Duwane said. Duwane’s Tip For his clients, Duwane ordinarily tries to find a shooter buck that will gross at least 100 points. “A buck in the 100-inch class isn’t one to sneer at. Most of my hunters would be tickled with it, and it’s a bonus if it’s actually bigger,” Duwane said. A 100-inch 3x3 buck is not that difficult to judge if you look for the key dimensions. Here’s what it takes. The main beams should be at least 17 inches long. Brow tines (eye guards) will be three inches or more. The second point (G2) should measure six inches. The third point (G3) should be five inches. There should be at least 13 inches of mass per side. The inside spread should be 13 inches or better. The total point lengths and mass for the above will come to 44 inches per side or 88 inches for both sides. That, along with the 13-inch spread, equals 101 inches. Naturally, most B&C bucks will have some deductions, but under SCI’s system, everything counts.

Be sure to read the "AZ Trophy Deer & Elk Article slots" topic in the Rifle Hunting section.

Okay, folks, I have several "hero" type articles already assigned for the following: 1. 2006 AZ trophy mule deer (something 170 or bigger preferably NOT from the N. Kaibab. AZ Strip would be fine, though, as would any other unit) 2. 2006 Archery elk (can use two here but should be 340 or bigger if possible) Must have a couple good original photos, preferably in the field and in digital format. I will do a phone interview to get the hunt recap, etc. If you're a guide or outfitter that had a hunter who would fit the above, let me know. Contact me via Private message here and we'll go from there. -TONY

If you're talking only Coues deer in AZ, five different units for me. If both Coues & mule deer, about 10. -TONY

I expected that one! -TONY

LOL. And if the same warning was issued everytime a similar incident occurs in Mesa, Phx, Scottsdale and Glendale, would you stay home or move to Flagstaff? -TONY

Perhaps the State Department will soon issue a similar warning for the city of Chandler after the recent drive-by there that killed one and wounded five others. -TONY

Dandy buck, Jim and good pix! Congrats to your dad. -TONY

And I took your comment as just that. I enjoy good discissions, even when they entail controversial topics. On the other hand, when a thread goes from discussing the ISSUE and turns into a name-calling and insult contest, I generally move on. I have better things to do than get in personal pissin' matches that go nowhere. No one learns anything from it. -TONY

KG, That's funny. Those folks take their politics serious. When my fishing partner and I drove down last March to Lake El Salto, the farmers were waging a protest of sorts and had taken over one of the toll exchanges along the main highway. There were hundreds of tractors lined up on both sides of the road and in the center divider. When we entered the toll lane, one of the dudes in the booth just waved us on through. So we saved about $5-$6 at that toll. Not so lucky at the rest of them, though. Dave, I'm beginning to think I have more than one screw loose. Otherwise, I wouldn't get in these dicussions in this place. -TONY