Unit 32 Mule Deer ?

[COUESAZ]

The indians on the plains used to wear bufalo hides as a way to sneak up on the bufalo and shoot them. etics or using your head.

 

They have used bitter root on the navajo nations for liftimes as an atractent to deer ethics or using your head.

 

Lets see now days I see guys in tree stands of all kinds and blinds of all kinds. ethics or useing your head.

 

I see guys in full camo to stay out of sight. ethics Or using your head.

 

I do not know and do not try to act like I know how hard anyone else on this forum hunts and scouts. ethics or using my head.

 

I have killed a deer one time while driving down the road and saw it from the road. Does this make me unethical or was it a good idea to shoot the buck when I saw it.

 

I also have busted my butt as well as many clients butts to find and shoot a deer.

[wetmule]

Mike,

You make some good points and I have no doubt that you and alot of others work your tails off pursuing your passion of finding big bucks & bulls where ever they may be. Not dissing you or anyone else, I just lean a little more towards the side of where is the technology gonna end up or go? I have good friends that use some of these methods and at the end of the day we are still good friends. When a guy can go out and set up a digital remote camera on a waterhole or somewhere else and without actually ever seeing in person the critters the camera takes pictures of, he could (maybe a guy already can) download that information from his office in LA or Phoenix, know exactly what that buck or bull scores, then switch to another channel and check his other trail cameras, and have his unit all scouted out without really spending a whole lot of time in his unit other than setting out his cameras. I know guys that can't take a shot unless they know the exact range with their laser rangefinders, can they not be reasonably accurate in their own range estimation?

I don't know where all the technology is headed, it sure is interesting and I enjoy looking at yours and others pics from your trail cameras. Technology is changing things too fast for me. For somewhat of an oldtimer alot of this is hard to digest.

Not saying everyone should shoot a longbow and take some obsidian that they found and bang out their own broadheads, just wondering how far it is all gonna go.

[Noel Arnold]

I just Called the game and fish. It is legal to use radios for hunting. I had already known this . Although from some of the comments,I was questioning my self. I guess it then depends on how each person draws the line. As long as it is legal,then I have no problems with them.What bothers me more about the future of hunting is the people who go for the horns and could care less about the meat.

Noel Arnold

[KGAINES]

I had heard that they were, but never checked since I don't use them when hunting, I did know that it would get sorted on here though, I think each person knows in his heart what is ethical or not, if its legal and you abide by the law and hunt the way you want, and feel good about the results it is probably ethical, to each his own. I think all of you guys have great points, and our all within the law so just hunt and have fun, common sense and safety is all you really need, for the most part.

Treestandman I got a trail cam a few weeks ago and was just waiting for the draw results before setting it up, but I kind of look at it like fishing(catch and release), I want to see what is in the area, and it gets me and my son out in the woods.

Good Luck on all your hunts and God bless.

[oldboy]

What I think is pretty interesting though is that hunter success rates have remained fairly consistent even with all of the the technology that is available to us hunters. Sure we've been in a drought scenerio for the past decade or so, (save last winter in Northern and Central Az) and this might skew the success numbers a bit. But the only guys who are going to invest the $$$ needed for all of the gadgets and gizmos are passionate hunters. What will probably change with this technology is the quality of animal harvested. Most folks willing to invest the cash necessary for a Lazer Range Finder, Motion sensing cameras, sent proof suits, Swaroski Bino's, tree stands or blinds, are the people who would have filled their tags more times than not. Almost anybody who visits this site is a HUNTER and lives for that pre-dawn one hour hike during the season for 355 +/- every other day of the year. If the technology allows any of us to gain a better animal, is it really that different. Except an older harvest grade animal has been killed versus a smaller imature critter.

 

So with the Sunset Loop closed at this time does anybody know if there is any reliable water in there to back pack too? I was thinking about base camping from a spike camp somewhere between Cassidy spring and Paddy's river.

 

I enjoyed the discussion

 

Old boy

[billrquimby]

Re: radios and the SCI record book.

 

I was editor of the SCI record books for more than 15 years and the club's Trophy Records Committee continually debated about ethics and what should make a trophy ineligible. In the end, everyone agreed the club must take a hunter's word the animal was taken legally and ethically. Each entry form has a statement of ethics and legallity the hunter must sign, but as someone on this thread suggested, "don't ask, don't tell" is rampant. That's true, even with B&C entries. There is no way to enforce these things unless a law has been broken and a conviction has been handed down.

 

As for radios, I am writing a book now for a guy who hunted RM bighorn in Alberta, where radios are illegal for hunting. His outfitter sat on a high hill using cue cards large enough that the guide and hunter could see them from a mile away with optics. They had an elaborate code using numbers and letters... Holding up cards that said "F," "6" and "3", for example, might mean the ram is bedded about 300 yards to the northeast of where the hunters are, etc. The outfitter and guide had printed an index, and each carried a copy. My questions are: Should this be illegal, too? Is it unethical?

 

I've always held that ethics are the minimum standards accepted by the majority of people in a specific area. In Africa, it is considered unethical (and even illegal in some provinces) to hunt within a half mile of a waterhole or use dogs to hunt leopards. In some states in the American South it is ethical and legal to hunt deer with hound packs. In Europe (and many places in the USA), bear, stag, roebuck and boar are hunted from elaborate "high seats" above places that have been baited for years.

 

Etc. Etc.

 

Bill Quimby

[More D]

Bill has hit on something that has bugged me for quite some time, the hunting shows that I watch sooooo much.

 

I watch ALOT of hunting shows, pretty much anything that is on except turkey hunting. No offence I just don't understand it even though I apply every chance I get.

Anyways

 

I watch my shows and others around me have to watch with me. Every one knows I love hunting and many non-hunters only exposer to hunting is TV shows. MANY, MANY shows are on "ranches" and all but a few use baits/baited areas to hunt over. I know you have seen it before: camo head to toe sitting in a box, some even have heaters. That box, as Bill said, has been sitting there for years and baited just as long. That is shooting not hunting. UNETHICAL. I/we get grouped into the same pile as those hunters. We are the only ones who know about pre-pre-dawn breakfasts and hour long morning walks in darkness just get to our spots. Then we do get some thing the real work starts.

My family/hunting party we butcher our own meat, none of this donate crap! We like to make our own chorizo and give away to family and friends. I give as much as I can and in some ways because I am proud and also because many people think that deer meat is gross funny tasting meat untill they are chopping down on mine and after the third time they say how much they like it I tell then what it is! I will give you as much as I can but my petpive(sp?) is when I hand them my HARD ERNED chorizo they say "Thats it, only 3 packs?" I respond "your right, I will take these back and give you a BIG bag later!" I don't ever give that person any of my meat again.

Most don't know how hard we work at doing what we love. No truck/quad rides to heated "shooting" boxes over long time baited areas or "senderos" here.

 

 

 

[az4life]

Very interesting topic. I am sure most of us fall closer to the "middle ground", on technology and hunting, not the extremes like:

 

A Pioneer with muzzleloader, and horses with pack mules and

The USO clients who have the game spotted and hearded to them with planes and choppers and use radios to let you know they are on the way.

 

I accept technology but don't figure on ever hunting from my lazy boy in front of the PC. I do scout using PC generated maps and trailcams, and use radios for "checking in" while hunting. Rarely do we do more than check in every hour or so for safety. Sure we have the "I saw 3" and "I saw none" conversations but keeping the spirit of the hunt is important too. I would never take a buffalo since that is not really a hunt. They put you in a fenced pasture and point you at the "Tame" one you are supposed to shoot. Yeah, that is Some sport. Anyway, stalking and talking is not very effective so radios won't help if you are trying to get inside 400 yards.!

 

As I recall, There was a thread a while back about who you would like to go hunt with, and who you wouldn't. It was stated by quite a few that differences in style and methods of hunting were okay, but ethical differences were not . We all have ethics, and ethics are not easily changed for appearances.

 

GREAT TOPIC