Preference or Bonus

[Coues79]

I like this idea too.

 

The paper applications help to weed out a few people as well. The online application makes it way too easy and convenient. However, it does have it's perks as well.

 

The way that I read the bonus point system, it goes like this.... there is 20% set aside for those with the highest amount of bonus points. Say that out of a hunt with 400 tags, 80 tags go to these folks, but is it out of a draw basis whether or not they get tags, or rather start with the person with the highest and just go down the list? Anyways, once they are done with that 20%, those with high bonus points that did not draw, get thrown back into the lottery with everyone else. Then it's the luck of the draw. Is this how some of you read it as well, or are there different opinions how it's done?

 

 

 

How about we just start making everyone that applies pay the full amount up front. that would be a good start.

 

 

I don't know why they did away with the way it used to be when I was a kid back in the 80's, where if you drew an elk tag, that was it for 5 years I thought (someone here said 3?). Put a 3 year res and 5 year non-res restriction on it, and keep the bonus point system. You would not accumulate points for the years you could not apply after drawing a tag.

 

That would have to even things out a little better I think. I'm not complaining, because I just drew a non-res bull tag, but it's hard to hear of guys going 10, 15, or even more years without drawing a bull tag when others claim to have drawn "three years in a row". "Lottery drawing" or not, where's the fairness in that? it might be cyclic, but tell that to the guy that hasn't drawn in 13 years!

 

They're going to have to make adjustments. With the drought we're getting fewer hunting opportunities, and more residents to compete for the decreased opportunities.

 

I don't like the idea of having to pay for all your tags up front like they did last year (res or non-res). That puts a lot of the hunts, especially for non-residents, into reach of the rich only, and that doesn't sit well with me. Come up with a system where the poor guy has every chance the rich guy has, and I'll buy into it.

I understand what you mean about putting all the money up front, but this does make more opportunity for folks to draw. If you know you have to do this in the years to come, then put back 5 or 10 bucks a paycheck for a year. Then you'll be set for the draw.

[donniedent]

personally, i think that would make it more like waiting in line then actually having to have 'the luck of the draw' if you HAVE to take time off of a species, i would not be happy with that at all! i think the system in AZ is jacked up,but i would hate to see it go to waiting in line than anything else

 

 

Thats the problem its not the luck of the draw if guys are getting drawn every year because they know someone. Also, its NOT waiting in line, theres still a lottery, you still have bonus points you just can't go and shoot bulls year after year after year. I know of a guy, very nice guy and is just flat lucky, that has drawn an elk tag 13 out of the last 15 years, not just bull tags though. He's drawn alot of cow tags too. Now I KNOW he's not up to anything shady, hes a good man but that just goes to show you that the system they have is a piece of crap. I hate the idea of once in a lifetime and with all the people we have putting in for AZ elk you'd never have enough preferance points to draw an elk tag after 10 years, they need to go back to a 3 or 5 year system. Also, even the guy who's been drawn 13 out of 15 years wants to see it go back to that.

 

Donnie

[rimhunter]

I have a buddy that has never had a elk tag and complaines about it every time I talk to him . He only puts in for unit 1 Bull where he only has a 5% chance of getting a tag . I dont blame him for wonting a unit 1 tag .But there are outer units that are easer to get a tag in . He only puts in for 12a east deer and has never got a tag .

There are almost allways tags for deer and pigs down south but he refuses to apply for a left over tag . I dont fill he has anything to complain about . he could go get one of these left over tags and go hunting .

Is the draw fair I think it is it's a lottery everyone has a chance but you have to play the game and put in a unit with the best odds or except the fact you might never get a tag

[rimhunter]

If it's happening know why arent they being caught you say your buddy is doing it now . Why dont you put a stop to it I would . There always someone in the system that will do something for a friend or money that there not supposed to do . And if you know this is going on you should report it and put a stop to it even if it is your friend .

And let me corect myself is it fair no its not but who said it would be fair you put your name in the hat and hope it gets pulled out . I havent had a elk tag for 7 years and Im willing to keep trying

[Mason]

I don't know why they did away with the way it used to be when I was a kid back in the 80's, where if you drew an elk tag, that was it for 5 years I thought (someone here said 3?). Put a 3 year res and 5 year non-res restriction on it, and keep the bonus point system. You would not accumulate points for the years you could not apply after drawing a tag.

 

That would have to even things out a little better I think. I'm not complaining, because I just drew a non-res bull tag, but it's hard to hear of guys going 10, 15, or even more years without drawing a bull tag when others claim to have drawn "three years in a row". "Lottery drawing" or not, where's the fairness in that? it might be cyclic, but tell that to the guy that hasn't drawn in 13 years!

 

They're going to have to make adjustments. With the drought we're getting fewer hunting opportunities, and more residents to compete for the decreased opportunities.

 

I don't like the idea of having to pay for all your tags up front like they did last year (res or non-res). That puts a lot of the hunts, especially for non-residents, into reach of the rich only, and that doesn't sit well with me. Come up with a system where the poor guy has every chance the rich guy has, and I'll buy into it.

Very well put Bud. I think your ideas are very good, maybe a waiting period is the better solution. I also completely agree with you about the poor boys. I am VERY DISSAPPOINTED at the G&F for raising a resident tag the same percentage as a non-resident?! Where is the justice in that? We as hunters do not want to see our passion turned into a money game, and we need to make sure that we let the proper people know that. I really hope that we can come up with a good solution so that everyone can have a chance to enjoy the thrills that a quality hunt provides. We need to quit being so dang selfish and try and work together to find a solution. Lets not leave it up to the G&F, because if we do it will definately revolve around money!

[DesertBull]

SCREW PREFERENCS POINTS!

[Mason]

SCREW PREFERENCS POINTS!

Why?

[donniedent]

Odds don't make much of a differance anymore, they're all dang near the same for bull tags. But you are right, if you only apply for one unit year after year, especially unit 1, you need to accept the fact that you aren't gonna draw much.

 

The ONLY thing that is going to improve draw odds fairly is if there aren't as many people putting in. Now you can price people out, you can create a "line" with prefrence points or you can make people skip a few years after they draw a bull tag. I think most everyone would rather skip a few years if he stands a better chance at drawing a tag when his 3 or 5 years is up.

 

Why doesn't game and fish do it???? MONEY..... money money money money money. They would lose waaayyy too much money if they did that. So they wouldn't ever do it. Shoot they were just trying to find a way a few months back to capitalize on the system we have by moving a bunch of rut tags to Nov. If you don't think thats what they were doing we need to talk more.

 

The only way G&F would buy it would be if they still got our money in the "off" years. They found out real fast after the Taulman thing that people will go to GREAT lengths to hunt and spend huge amounts of money to ensure they'll get a tag. The problem we have now is a commission that doesn't give a rip about the hunting expierience, they just want to make as much money as possible off us hunters until they can get rid of us altogether. Think I'm overreacting, ask a wolf!

 

Donnie

[Hooked_on_Coues]

We have no preference points in NM and it sucks. I have not been able to draw a tag in my backyard for 10 years. Every year back to square one and every year you hear of the guy that pulled the great tags AGAIN! We need preference points.

 

I like Az's system better than Colorado's. I have 12 points in CO and will not be able to draw the tag I want, probably ever. The highest points get the tags and there are about 60 non residents with points ahead of me. If you average about 5 of them getting a tag per year it would take me 12 years to catch up.

 

Stick with your system, keep it simple and go with the increased odds.....

 

Thank you for your consideration in this matter.

[rimhunter]

SDRHUNTER

Hope i havent ofended you have not ment to . Ive lived here all my life and seen a lot of changes and most all have been for the worst .

The thing with a tag every 3 to 5 years is the amount of people that will be puting in in 5 years its growing every year and sooner or later the elk like deer numbers will be down and it going to be harder to get a tag yes something needs to be done but Im afraid it will make things even harder like a tag in a life time .

Im happy with things the way they are .

[DEERSLAM]

80% of the tags should go to the hunters with the most points while the remaining 20% would go into a random drawing for all the remaining applicants. If you draw a "premium hunt" for a certain species you would be required to sit out of the draw for that species for 2 years. My .02

 

I also believe there are some shady things going on in most game and fish dept. as far as the draws go. For some reason some high profile type hunters seem to always draw some big time hunts every year against huge odds

 

As far as online apps, cash up front would be very tough for most nonresidents and I don't believe game and fish dept. would want to lose all of that revenue. And yes I know it's your state but we are all nonresidents somewhere and if your like me I like to hunt species other than just the ones in my state.

[donniedent]

The main things I don't like about preference points is that they are unit specific and with the amount of people putting in for elk hunts here you'd draw a tag once every 15 years.

 

These are in no way real numbers, just an example.

 

Say you have on average 200,000 elk applicants and on average 15,000 elk tags. Year one you eliminate 15,000 hunters from the draw for 6 years. Year two 15,000 more. Year three 15,000 more. Year four 15,000 more. Year five 15,000 more and finally another 15,000 after year six. By the time the year one hunters are ready to put in again they'll only be going against 110,000 other applicants. So after the first six years you'll only have 125,000 applicants versus the 200,000 you have now. After six years your thrown back into the lottery but with much better odds.

 

That doesn't factor in growth or decline of the hunting population but you get my drift. Also I used 6 years between tags beacuse the numbers came out rounder. I think 3 would be enough with the real numbers we're dealing with now.

 

Anyway it doesn't matter cause they'll never do it. Why???? MONEY.

 

 

Donnie

[deserthunter23]

guess Im kind of torn,every year we go thru the process and we all keep coming back for more......there has to be a way to have your bonus points count for more than they do now ,but a true preference system with the amount of people applying would be a tough road ,wouldnt get drawn more then a few times in a lifetime....I love hunting and am getting on(52) hunted my whole life and would hate to think the tags would be that limited,still it is frustrating to have 13 antelope pts and hope that Im not 70 before i draw,someone suggested more of a cap for people with the most pts ,that would seem the fairest,would still give luck a chance but am thinking maybe 50% of available tags for those with the most bonus pts and luck of the draw for the rest,at least it would feel your points after all those yrs might actually get you somewhere,just a thought .....hope not to long ,good luck to all,(after a 5 yr wait did draw 6A muzzleloader bull elk and 12BW deer,still waiting for that elusive lope tag),

[drgonzales]

I find it really hard to think that some of you think the G and F are running a money scam or are greedy.

 

Do you guys go to commission meetings and voice your opinions???????? I do!!! If you don't then you have nothing to complain about.

 

The cost of everything is going up, up, up!!! EVERYTHING!!!! It costs quite a bit of money to keep wardens, biologists, interns etc. in the field doing their job. If you knew how much they got paid I think you would change your mind, they do it because they love it, not for the money.

 

 

Maybe they aren't doing the best jobs on the drawing but they are still doing it. What if it stopped????? I would be devastated.

 

I love elk hunting and have packed out about 30 of them, only 1 of them my own.

[donniedent]

Let me clarify something, I don't think the regular Joe's working at G&F are greedy at all. I know for a fact that they have to love what they do cuz they don't make squat. I'm talking about the commission. You tell me that trying to move elk tags from the rut to nov. wasn't a money move. They tried to do it under the guise of hunter opprotunity but it was for money. Think about it like this, which hunt has better success rates? No question, the rut hunt. Lets say you move..... 100 archery tags from the rut to a nov hunt. Well during the rut hunt 40 maybe 45 of those tags are filled. In nov you're looking at more like 10 to 15. So G&F just made the same amount of money but it cost them 30 less bulls. Tell me its not about money!!! They only care about hunters enough to take thier money and its not going to change until we ALL decide to get rid of this idiot we have in the governors office right now. Tell me she doesn't let the commissionors know what SHE wants to acheive.

 

As far as going to the meetings, I go as much as I can and we should all make an effort to go to more meetings. In that sense you are completely right.

 

Donnie