Coach

Vid here shows it better than I can describe it http://mountaintuff.com/

It's basically a 3.5 mile run/jog/walk with muddy obstacles in your way. Some are big mud pits you run through or jump over. Some are elevated logs you balance on. There are swinging ropes over mud pits, crawling on your belly through muddy water under barbed wire, or through a culvert, trying to climb up a knotted rope straight up a slippery mud cliff about 20' which was extremely hard, monkey bars, carrying logs. I'd say there was about 25-30 muddy obstacles to get through.

I've been there and I feel your pain. I have a Knight Long Range Hunter and I thought I had found the best combination - Hornady 250 gr SST bullets with the red sabot, 100 grains of triple seven (2 50 gr pellets) and Win 209 primers, Leupold Ultimate slam scope. From what I've seen, 150 grains will not burn inside a 26" barrel. Three 50 grain pyrodex or .777 pellets, IMO don't produce much more velocity than two. Most of that third pellet burns up outside the barrel, kicks harder and is less consistent than two. I was shooting groups out to 300 even 400 yards that looked like what you would expect from a good center fire rifle - I'm talking close to MOA. Then Hornady changed their Sabot to make it easier to load. All of a sudden, I was spraying all over the place at 100 yards. I tried every bullet from power belts to barnes triple shock, and could not group at all. So I went away from the pellets and used 120 grains of loose .777 and all of the bullets I shot were better, but nowhere close to what I'd seen that gun shoot before. I finally settled on some TC bullets with the yellow plastic sabot and was able to take a bull elk at 250 yards and a nice coues at 210 yards, but I have never gotten that gun to shoot the way it did the first few weeks I shot it. I'm almost wondering if the Ultimate Slam scope gets loose inside on a ML. I'm about ready to stick a different scope on this gun because I've seen it shoot WAY better than what it is now, and I suspect the scope or mounts more than the rifle, powder or bullets. FWIW, neither first shot on the coues or bull elk were optimal. I hit the elk back and low, the coues back and high, but both were recoverable. I'd re-mount the scope, even try someone else's scope with the standard 2-3 pellet load, some TC's or Powerbelts. I absolutely loved the Ultimate Slam at first, but now I suspect the recoil has made it less accurate.

azsugarbear, excellent post. Lance, also a great post. It's nice to see fellow hunters who are passionate enough to get involved and work with AZG&F to come up with the right solution. I've never hunted bison, maybe never will, but it's refreshing to hear your perspective and your proposals for a better future for hunters and bison.

He's pretty much defined the parameters. 26" stainless fluted, 7mm. That means (aside from the Sendero) Remington 700 CDL SF or Weatherby Accumark (partially stainless)in factory guns. If anyone else besides custom builders makes a stainless 26" fluted rifle in 7MM Mag, I'm not aware of it. Personally, I'm a Savage fan, and while they make some of the most bland looking, mediocre to sloppy action, guns, they just flat out shoot. I spent the afternoon with a friend who loves buying cheap guns and turning them into works of art. We started off with 2 Savage 110's in .243. One he bought at a pawn shop for around $160 because the stock was duct taped to the barrel and was missing some screws. The second had the standard, sub-par savage plastic stock he got for around $205 at a pawn shop. We mounted cheap scope (don't remember the brand) on the plastic stock gun, and a good Zeiss on the wood one. The plastic one shot sub MOA with about a .75 group at 100 yards with cheap factory ammo. The wood one got the better scope but was clearly not in its factory stock. The wood was touching on the left side, the trigger was stiff with a lot of creep but still shot 1 1/4" at 100 yards. I brought out my only hunting rifle, a Savage 14 American Classic, really pretty gun, and I've never seen another like it. It's flat oiled American Walnut with a medium contour barrel in a matte finish - way prettier rifle than your typical savage, and shot 4 shots at 100 yards. I had a flyer at about 1.2" but of the other 3, 2 were touching and the third was within 3/4 inch, and this was in 300 WSM. There aren't many custom gun makers who can deliver sub MOA in a .300 Magnum, and I bought this one for around $480 because I liked the wood and matte medium barrel. We shot a lot of guns today, but what I saw was pretty much what I've seen over the past 20 years. You can take a stock, off-the-shelf Savage, even one that's been beat to crap, with a cheap scope and factory ammo and shoot anywhere from very respectable to down-right impressive groups. Some I've shot, especially in the lower calibers, .223, 22-250, .243 you can get under $400, sometimes under $300 including a scope, outshoot a lot of custom rifles.

I've got a Savage American Classic in .300 WSM. Currently mounted on it is an older Cabela's Alaskan Guide scope - not a bad scope, I think it's 6-20x by 50mm with mil dots. This was probably a $400 scope new. I'm ready to put a better scope on this gun, as it is definitely a great shooting rifle, and I've got some good hand loads, and I want to work up some more with berger bullets. I'm not looking to shoot 1000+ yards - yet, but I would like to put a better scope on it and learn to "dial in" the shot from 300 to 700 yards. I'm looking at the Vortex Viper HS LR in 6-24x50 and Viper HS-T (also 6-24x50) and would like to have custom turrets that match my load. So, I know there are lots of you who have experimented with different scopes and would like some real-world experience/advice. The Viper HS-T comes in either MOA or MRAD, but I don't know which of those is better for learning how to range a target and dial in. Based on what I'm trying to accomplish, what would you guys suggest?

Thank you guys for sharing your experience. I'll definitely stick with MOA, as that's what I'm most familiar with. I really like the scope 452x264 linked, and it appears it is also available in 6-24 with the XLR reticle. http://www.cameralandny.com/optics/vortex.pl?page=vortexviperhs6-24x50lr Leaning that way right now, but also looking at Zeiss.

Great looking pronghorns! Can't wait to see the pix of your clients with some of those big guys.

Haven't read ALL the responses yet, but I'd say either .270 WSM or .300 WSM. Given that you want a shorter, lighter rifle, between those 2 I'd suggest .270 WSM. (Shout out to Couestracker). IMO, the .270 WSM shoots great out of lighter rifles. Low recoil, magnum velocity, huge range of bullets if you reload. I like this round second only to the .300 WSM, but for that I wouldn't suggest either an ultra-light rifle or shorter barrel.

You guys are freaking awesome. No kidding. My wife and I have a 3.5 mile walk routine in the mornings right after we get the kids off to school, then off to work. She coaches gymnastics and teaches at school, I work a "desk job" in software, then coach football or baseball, whatever the season. By the end of the day, we're pretty spent. As far as making healthy living a lifestyle, it's awesome to see how hard you guys work.

Those graphs and charts are strange, for sure. I remember sitting in my doctor's office for something I don't recall, and coming across a dial that you could use to put in your age, gender and height to get an idea of whether you were overweight. According to this dial, At 6' 1", 39 years old, around 213 pounds, I was significantly overweight. I didn't feel overweight, but looking at pictures of myself at that time, I certainly was. However, the chart on that dial had my "optimal" weight at somewhere around 169 pounds. I ate like a rabbit, walked 6 miles on the treadmill daily for months. Then I went on a elk hunt. I was up at 3, hiking and hunting hard until hours after dark for 2 weeks, every day on end - only eating when my body told me it had to have food - and then I ate snickers bars, jerky, sugary foods to get short bursts of energy. My diet was super high protein and carbo breakfast at 3 Am, minimal snacking throughout the day, then a heavy carb, protein dinner at night. And the lowest I got was around 178 pounds. My own mother said I looked starved, my wife said I was too thin - it was showing in my cheeks. So according to these charts, I was still 9 pounds above my "optimal" weight. Looking back now, I realize that our body wants to stabilize at a certain point, and we have to train our body slowly to re-adjust to that point. Too much too soon puts a lot of strain on the body. We pick a small goal, get there, get comfortable, pick another and so-on. One thing I'll put out there, for those of you trying to get in shape, and this is coming from someone who is NOT yet in good shape - OK but not good- My family loves to hunt and hike and fish, and we LOVE to go explore canyons in Utah - the slots, the narrows, the rappelling - some of the things we tackle really drive home that we are not in that great of shape, and to truly enjoy it, we want to come back next year a little leaner, a little stronger, a little more core strength, more rope training, and we will have more options to do more challenging things. If you haven't done the Flagstaff Extreme Challenge, you really should. It starts out pretty easy but by the end of it, you know if you've got that balance, inner core strength, etc. I watched 20-somethings blow through it, but honestly at 42, by the time I finished the black course, all I could think about was how much pain I was in and it shouldn't be that hard. It was a very humbling experience for me.

Wow, thanks a lot guys. I'm kinda a boot/sock junkie. I'm all about comfortable feet when hiking. I'm guessing you guys just cost me at least an extra $40 to try these out. JK, In all seriousness, thanks for pointing us to quality gear. IMO, not many things can ruin a hunt faster than bad boots, or good boots paired with bad socks. If you are out hiking hard to get away from roads, even more when you are backpacking in your most critical gear is good footwear, IMO. Based on the reviews here, this is definitely something I'm going to have to try out.

Nice Vid! Taking my oldest boy, Matt on his first "REAL" big game archery hunt this year. Unit 1, early bull. Can't wait to get out there and smell the wetness of the ground, hear the sound of the breeze in the aspens turning gold, and that sweet sound of bugles that tell you the hunt is ON! Best of luck to you on your hunts this year.

Leftovers in 32 came today.

I've met a few guys who have come out here from back East or the Midwest and put their experience patterning whitetails to use with amazing success. Of course, I totally agree with posters here on getting the best glass and tripod you can and learning how to use those tools. But there's a lot to be said about doing some serious hiking in the area you are going to hunt. Try to locate where they bed, where they water, how they move. One thing that's a little tricky out here, when you aren't hunting the rut, the bucks simply don't move much. They'll bed in a secluded area where they can feed close to their beds, and unless it is extremely dry, they won't even move much for water, and when they do, it will be at night. I'd say use your experience from back East for locating and patterning, learn to use good optics and be very patient when it comes to glassing. When it comes to getting your kill out, and I hope this is a problem you encounter, lol, you'll want to bone the meat out as quickly as possible. I like the gutless technique, get it hanging in the shade in quality meat bags quickly, and don't overload one bag. It's not uncommon to spend the night hiking the bags out. Best of luck, and thank you for your service.

Great gun, my son is working his tail off to buy his truck. I'm sure he'd love this turkey/goose slayer.

Very clean truck. It's nice to see pride in ownership.

Sweet! Didn't know a bird could be so smart.

Awesome! I hope you guys keep smacking those toms. Great dogs and great dog work. I love seeing how happy those dogs get when they tree a cat like that.

Does it shoot 3.5" shells?

I've talked to enough ranchers, and held enough mini-mature racks to hold on to the "fantail" club. Talk with the guys at Pinky's ranch in 24A, or some guys who walk the forest from WMAT, my dad set aside racks that were 3-4 points on both sides, but would fit in a cantaloupe. The science is NOT on their side, but old school cowboys believe in them. I'll side with the cowboys.

He's growing well!

I think this is great service - I for one would have loved to have this available the year I lost my first elk due to bad shot placement on my part. It happens, it's bow hunting, and anyone who can help recover just one lost animal is doing us all a great service. For those like BoneCollector777, and others who questioned the legality of it, this has been a gray area in the laws for some time. These guys appreciate the service, and just don't want to see someone doing the right thing get punished because of some oddly written or misconstrued law. Awesome thing about this post, even where there is disagreement, it's all about hunters having each other's backs.

I truly empathize with Amanda on this subject. On the one hand, as many have mentioned, there is a LOT of stuff going around these days, politically, that have the potential to shape our future and the world our children will live in. If you aren't aware of these things and quite frankly, PO'd, and wanting to discuss them with others, you are asleep at the wheel, for lack of a better term. However, there are literally thousands of web sites out there where we can get on our soap box and preach politics, religion, etc. People will disagree - sometimes start making actual threats, etc. I can't speak for Amanda, but from my own perspective, one of the things I love about CWT is how it hasn't turned into one of those other sites - yet. In the professional world, or being invited to someone's house for a dinner or BBQ, it's kind of an unwritten rule, you tone-down, back off the rhetoric, avoid polarizing issues and maintain a certain level of civility, as respect to your host. From my perspective, when I come on CWT, I think of it like I've been invited to Amanda's house to enjoy some food and meet new people. The last thing I want to do is start a fight or get belligerent and make other guests feel unwelcome. If you respect this forum, its founders and members, try to approach it like you would a dinner party with your company/co-workers/supervisor, etc. Having an opinion is great, and expressing that opinion in an honest, deliberate, respectful manner shows integrity. Trashing the home you were invited into shows the opposite, IMO.

Great looking buck! Congrats