world record n/t coues

[Guest firstcoues80inches]

i do not believe it is a coues, what about you guys

[CouesWhitetail]

Good poll Casey!

 

That NT Coues is very odd looking. I emailed B&C to ask how they determined it was a Coues and they said that the hunt story was well documented and that the panel of measurers were sure it was a Coues. However....no genetic testing has been done yet. I am working on trying to get that done. Roy Lopez who is doing the DNA testing on Coues deer in the state may be able to run a test on this deer if B&C and the owner of the deer allow it. But that permission has not been secured. The owner may not want it tested. But who knows. I hope someday it will be tested. Just imagine if it was a Coues!!!

 

Amanda

[Arizona Griz]

It is very difficult to say. Until it is DNA tested I guess we will have to assume B & C has done their homework. Could very well be a hybrid.

 

Arizona Griz.

[Guest firstcoues80inches]

amanda do u think that they would send u a copy of the story to post on the site? i wonder how that would go over

casey

[Prohunt]

There is no way that is a Coues. I have not spoken to anyone that thinks that is a Coues Deer. Look at the forks on the G-2's. How about the height. It could be a hybrid or it could be a wierd carp deer. The other things that bring questions: where it came from, it boke the all time record by something like 30 inches, and the fact it sat for so many years without being scored. I agree with Amanda it should be genetically tested. If the owner won't allow it , it should be removed. As for the B&C knowing what they are doing, that is questionable. I would bet that not one of the panel scorers was from AZ. (No offense Amanda.) If they had any knowlege about Coues this deer would have never been entered, much less became

the new World Record NT! Travis

[coueshunter]

As far as I am concerned, it is not a coues. I need to see DNA tests, it looks way too much like an eastern whitetail or a screwed up cross breed. I seriously doubt Boone & Crockett is very concerned about doing any research into it. I am more of the opinion that whoever is more politically correct at the time with the leaders of B&C end up getting entries etc.......for what they want without any standardized process of elimination. I am a member and they seem to be very non-committal on most everything................Allen.........

[Guest jeff in NM]

For the sake of the survey, I am going to say that I do believe the buck is a Coues deer. I have a friend who shot a HUGE coues deer buck in NM several years ago. He cut the antlers off and called it good for many years. He finally had it scored, and the

[Guest jeff in NM]

As I was saying..., he finally had it scored, and B&C refused to enter it, because they were not convinced it was a Coues deer. I believe it was then tested genetically, and confirmed to be a Coues buck. It is now in the book. I don't know what it ranks, but the buck was taken in Grant Co., NM in the late 80's or early 90's. I will refrain form using his name, as he might not want it posted on the internet. I have visited with Roy Lopez on this matter. I never knew there was any controversy over this world record rack until I spoke to Roy, and then read the messages on this web-site. I guess the only way to verify the species is to have it tested genetically, however, I don't see why Roy should spend his research funding to satisfy certain non-believers. Hey, it's B&C's book, and if they want it in, it's their call. They make their rules, and they develop their standards. Of course, if Roy could get DNA from an adequate sample size in the same mountain range, it would be benefit his research. You know, it seems as though every time a world record, or world class animal is taken, the accusations arise, of the animal not being real, or was poached, etc., etc. With the illegal and unethical means some "hunters" will use, just to get thier name in "The Book", I can understand why we think this way. I also think that jeaolousy may play a part in it. We need to remember that the intent of the records keeping organization should be to honor the animal as one of the finest of the species and not to glorify the hunter who took it. I apologize if my comments here seem negative. I don't know why I go on and on about this stuff, because scores actually mean very little to me. Feel free to bash me now!

[CouesWhitetail]

Casey,

 

I don't know if B&C would give me the story. Maybe they will give me the guys contact info and I can get it from him. I imagine it has been printed in the latest B&C recordbook, but I don't have a copy.

 

If someone has a copy, maybe they could summarize the story.

 

Amanda

[Guest jeff in NM]

Hey, what happened to the message from the guy who was talking smack? I really wanted to respond to his comments. I believe his name was Travis. I had a proposition for him regarding sharing the costs of having the buck in question tested genetically. I cannot say with 100% certainty that the buck in question is a Coues, but genetic testing would lay the matter to rest (for most people). Travis, I don't know which B&C scorer's you know that you claim don't know Coues deer, but the the two that I know on a personal basis are two of the most knowledgeable individuals, when it comes to Coues deer, that exist! Elliot himself could learn volumes from these two. If the members of the panel who scored this buck are of the same caliber as the two I am referring to, you can rest assured that the panel is very competent. As for your comments about myself, no I haven't been smoking anything. In fact, I haven't been drinking either; gave it up for lent. However, Easter Sunday I'll be frothing the headwaters of the Rio Grande in Creede, Colorado and may choose partake in a snifter of brandy or two after a weekend of (hopefuly) fighting pig trout. I am a native New Mexican, and have been around Coues deer all my life. I have a deep fascination with antlers, both sheds, and on the skull. I have hunted as long as I can remember, and hold a degree in wildlife science. By looking at the pictures of the buck in question, I do not believe that it is beyond the realm of possibility that the buck in question is a Coues deer. I you would like to join me in the Gila the weekend after Easter, I'll show you what I know about Coues deer. Amanda, how about chalking one up for the believers in your poll stat.'s Jeff in NM

[Guest jeff in NM]

Amanda, Tomorrow I'll contact Dr. V.W. Howard in Las Cruces, NM to see if he was on the panel that scored the big buck, or to see if he has any details. I'll report back on my findings. Jeff

[CouesWhitetail]

Jeff,

 

Thanks for offering to find out more about the panel. I would be interested and I bet most everyone else here would be too.

 

Jeff, you have to vote in the poll yourself, I can't add votes to it for you. Just click on the message with the poll in it (not this thread) and select your choice. Each person can only vote once.

 

FYI - I deleted Travis' msg because I thought it was a little bit too aggressive on personally attacking you Jeff. I told him you probably wouldn't mind his post, but I did, so I deleted it and explained it all to him. Hopefully he will rephrase some of his comments to you and take you up on your challenge!

 

I would like to ask everyone to please be respectful and refrain from personal attacks in their debates on this forum. But feel free to debate the facts as much as you want and to give opinions on them.

 

Amanda

[Prohunt]

Jeff,

Let me try this again.As for paying for genetic testing lets let the B&C pay for the test with their $25 entry fees since they are a non-profit organization.I think they should pay for the test because they let a non-Coues become #1 in the World.The only B&C Scorer I know is Amanda and she definately knows Coues Deer.If you read her earlier post it sounds like she thinks it's not a Coues.As for B&C Scoreres, I'm sure most of them are great people and competent scorers. However, that doesn't make them experts on Coues.I think this is obvious because they let this buck be scored as a Coues.Some of the questions I have are: the height doesn't look like a Coues, the G-2 splits(according to AZG&F Regs. Coues G-2's don't split.), the main beam shape is not "basket" shaped, and it broke the old World Record by about 28 inches(the difference between the #1 and #2 Typical Coues is about an inch.)The only reason I brought up NM is because you also have Texas Whitetail there. If you don't care about scores then why would you even put a post about the #1 in the World??The only thing I can see that looks like a Coues is the cape.I can tell you are having second thoughts because in your 1st post you said you believed it was a Coues and in your 2nd post your saying it is not beyond the realm of possibility it is a Coues.You may actually may know plenty about Coues but you obviously have not taken the time to really look at these antlers.I have given you 5 reasons it is not a Coues.Lets see your reasons it is a Coues. (Jeff sorry for the first post, I didn't mean to be too personal, some was in jest.) Travis