Ethics

[curmudgen]

I'm just wondering how many of the 500-600 yard shots reported on this forum involve the perfect conditions required to be sure of such a shot, that is, dead calm, dead rest, etc., and a shooter who can make such shots consistently, that is 90% of the time on the first shot at the range without a few practice shots to check things out? I, like most of us who have hunted much, have wounded animals and felt sorry for it, but taking low percentage shots is not, in my humble opinion, showing respect for the game animals we are hunting. Jack

[azyota]

For me, I don't shoot enough to be comfortable taking that kind of a shot. This past rifle season I passed on a 640yd shot at a very nice deer. I opted to try and cut the distance in half. Time I got over there he was gone. I never saw him again. Oh well, that's the way it goes. For my own personal comfort level shooting at that deer would have been an attempt to hit him. That's something I'm not comfortable doing.

For the guy's that practice at those ranges and are confident in their ability. That's their comfort level, and I don't see anything wrong with it. But people have to be honest with themselves.

 

My only problem is with the guy's that are going to want in the "long range shooters club", and be out looking to take shots beyond their own personal ability. That's not directed at anyone. I don't know anyone here well enough. But I think we all know impressionable people read what is written here….

 

[COOSEFAN]

I wish I was around to read what happened to that thread, I did reply to it and I was the one who said..."Some things you just don't do....and some things you just don't post". I hope my comment wasn't too offending to the guy, it was meant more for constructive advice but this happened to be a topic I have strong feelings for! It really gets under my skin hearing about, reading about, and witnessing hunters shooting way beyond their comfort level just "HOPING" they hit what they are shooting at! No matter what anyone says, it's still going to happen every year on every hunt....I just hate reading about it on an open forum.

 

In this particular case, according to the wording, it was clear that it was a giant buck and the opportunity to take him was fading so shots were fired in hopes that maybe one will connect.......even though it had to be at least 600 yards! Then to hear that the buck indeed was wounded becuase of the "attempted" shots makes me upset. I didn't need to hear that, and the same goes for several other stories we've heard this past season, if you shoot way beyond your means, wound several animals on your hunt, or leave a wounded animal in the field because you want to head back to camp for lunch.........don't tell us about it!

 

I know, as well as most of you do, that bad things can happen even to the most prepared and skilled hunter....that's a fact and is something we all deal with when it happens. There is ethics, laws, and our individual limitations that we must follow in order to minimize the risk of any bad things happening on our hunts.

 

I do enjoy hearing all the details of a hunting story, but you have to be tactful and respectful to the sport, the animal, and the veiwers that are on the outside looking in! First and foremost, if you are respectful to all these things than you will never have any reason to hide the details!

 

 

[Browning'sCustomMeat]

I wish I was around to read what happened to that thread, I did reply to it and I was the one who said..."Some things you just don't do....and some things you just don't post". I hope my comment wasn't too offending to the guy, it was meant more for constructive advice but this happened to be a topic I have strong feelings for! It really gets under my skin hearing about, reading about, and witnessing hunters shooting way beyond their comfort level just "HOPING" they hit what they are shooting at! No matter what anyone says, it's still going to happen every year on every hunt....I just hate reading about it on an open forum.

 

In this particular case, according to the wording, it was clear that it was a giant buck and the opportunity to take him was fading so shots were fired in hopes that maybe one will connect.......even though it had to be at least 600 yards! Then to hear that the buck indeed was wounded becuase of the "attempted" shots makes me upset. I didn't need to hear that, and the same goes for several other stories we've heard this past season, if you shoot way beyond your means, wound several animals on your hunt, or leave a wounded animal in the field because you want to head back to camp for lunch.........don't tell us about it!

 

I know, as well as most of you do, that bad things can happen even to the most prepared and skilled hunter....that's a fact and is something we all deal with when it happens. There is ethics, laws, and our individual limitations that we must follow in order to minimize the risk of any bad things happening on our hunts.

 

I do enjoy hearing all the details of a hunting story, but you have to be tactful and respectful to the sport, the animal, and the veiwers that are on the outside looking in! First and foremost, if you are respectful to all these things than you will never have any reason to hide the details!

 

 

100% IN AGREEMENT. Very well put!

 

-Jeremy-

[Coues 'n' Sheep]

I wish I was around to read what happened to that thread, I did reply to it and I was the one who said..."Some things you just don't do....and some things you just don't post". I hope my comment wasn't too offending to the guy, it was meant more for constructive advice but this happened to be a topic I have strong feelings for! It really gets under my skin hearing about, reading about, and witnessing hunters shooting way beyond their comfort level just "HOPING" they hit what they are shooting at! No matter what anyone says, it's still going to happen every year on every hunt....I just hate reading about it on an open forum.

 

In this particular case, according to the wording, it was clear that it was a giant buck and the opportunity to take him was fading so shots were fired in hopes that maybe one will connect.......even though it had to be at least 600 yards! Then to hear that the buck indeed was wounded becuase of the "attempted" shots makes me upset. I didn't need to hear that, and the same goes for several other stories we've heard this past season, if you shoot way beyond your means, wound several animals on your hunt, or leave a wounded animal in the field because you want to head back to camp for lunch.........don't tell us about it!

 

I know, as well as most of you do, that bad things can happen even to the most prepared and skilled hunter....that's a fact and is something we all deal with when it happens. There is ethics, laws, and our individual limitations that we must follow in order to minimize the risk of any bad things happening on our hunts.

 

I do enjoy hearing all the details of a hunting story, but you have to be tactful and respectful to the sport, the animal, and the veiwers that are on the outside looking in! First and foremost, if you are respectful to all these things than you will never have any reason to hide the details!

 

 

Jim, I quoted and "+1'ed", your post on that other thread..... and I am going to do the same now. Well put and well said, on both occasions!

 

I think that we should not applaud a fellow hunter or give him an, "Awwwww....... I'm soo sorry for your mis-fortune." If it was bad choices that made the "wreck" happen.... Maybe the guy was very practiced at that distance, but the post sounded like the shots were fired on a "Wing and a Prayer"..... and if the guy who post truely was a very well practiced shooter, wouldn't we expect him to come back with some clarification to his previous post.... something that might make us all re-think or recant our responses???? We have all made mistakes in the field, and as Jim mentioned, "bad things can happen even to the most prepared and skilled hunter...." No one is perfect, but if that guy was expecting an "Atta Boy" Or a "Ohhh.... It's okay..." for making poor choices then I venture to think he should have told the story to his Mother, instead of us.

 

[WadeNAZ]

Hello to all and a Merry Christmas: i've read in a topic earlier for a coues hunt in 24b, the gentleman took a shot at a deer at 600 yds and hit him but could not recover after two days, now you have a tag for one animal supposed that animal died, should he still go on on his hunt until he harvest an animal or should he quit? since he wounded and probably kill him ,what it will be the right thing to do??

and when the AZGFD send you the survey what do you write , wounded and could not recover one and harvest one?

i just mention this incident because it was on the forum but i'm sure that happen to other people in this forum.

just wondering on people opinions.

 

My opinion on the questions that were asked

If you are confident in your tracking skills and have come to a dead end, then continue your hunt the same area as long as possible. If not, ask someone who is and keep looking. Either way, fill out the survey completely and accurately.

 

Great Questions Maximus.

[fatfootdoc]

I have been with someone who decided to shoot and pray and I have been with someone who took a long shot because they were comfortable with it, one had good results and the other just plain missed, of course this was a guy who took a 100 yard shot at a walking elk during archery season, I no longer hunt with him by the way and I had absolutely no problem with the guy taking the longer shot who was well practiced, the other one just flung lead and had no chance of hitting. very irresponsible to take a shot like that. regardless of the shot, if it is a low percentage shot it probably should not be taken. That being said my first year deer hunting I took a shot at 150 yards that I had practiced over and over and hit the deer but because of inexperience I pushed it up and lost it. The moral is crap happens we all know we might wound a deer and try our hardest to prevent that but sometimes it happens. We owe it to the animal to look exhaustingly for it, but we also need to be able to shake it off and learn from the experience and do what we can to prevent it from happening again.

 

I dang sure would not go on a new site and within my first few posts talk about my 600 yard wounding shot! Merry Christmas!!! ag

[ruffcountry]

Fire for Effect

[CouseforLife]

I am new to this site but not hunting. A very close friend of mine 15 years ago said put in for a late whitetail tag with me and I have been hooked ever since. I had a great string of 6 late tags in a row. Nothing for the past three years, I am not complaining BTW.

 

I started reloading about 12 years ago and I am addicted to ballistics. Not to the point that I live them but I like to know exactly what a bullet is suppose to do in what conditions.

 

I have shot out to 600 yards and consider myself proficient with MY rifles.

 

To shoot at 600 yards there are so many atmospheric factors, weather factors, and what caliber and bullet you are shooting. Under ideal conditions I would take a shot but only if I could not get closer. If there is any wind where I am, halfway, or where he is, forget it. A 5 to 10 MPH crosswind can push a bullet feet off point of aim at that distance. Then you have to factor temps where you are and where he is.

 

In 1999 I shot a nice buck, around 90 inches as I recall about 375 yards. I was using a 22-250 that I had shot many couse with out ot 400 yards and had gotten "bang flops". When I let the shot go, I can still picture it, I knew it was a liver shot. I cussed myself for letting it go. The deer humped up like a typical gut shot and ran over the ridge. I gave it a while and my buddy and went to the spot. I found blood and trailed him for about 200 yards. Finding dark blood along the way. Sometimes on my hands and knees.

 

I searched for that buck for two solid days and never found him. I have been back to that area several times since then and still look for the remains. It made me so sick that I could not hunt the rest of the season. I know he was dead but I could not find him. I never did and to this day it haunts me.

 

So to answer to the original question. I agree with most here that if under ideal conditions and I have practiced out to that distance and MOST important, I am confident at that range, then it is not unethical IMO. However, I feel it would be unethical if any of those factors are not met. Even out to 200 yards.

 

Personally, I have practiced out that far but the furthest shot I ever took at an animal was about 450 yards. I could not get any closer and had all the time in the world to take the shot.

[natureboyfloyd]

As for my Marlin 336 30-30, I guess anything over 50 yards is a tough shot... but in all seriousness, 200 yards is about it, from a prone or supported sit-on-my-rear position, no wind, level shot. I recently found all the boxes I went through to feel comfortable with that rifle, and realized had I bought a bolt action, flat shooter, I might be less financially solvent. About 21 years ago, I could make far shots, in the service with the M-14 variant, the M21 308. However, on the long shots, someone called the wind. One reason I did not buy a bolt gun was to avoid living out on Allen Flat, on my belly, firing at concentric circles.

 

Because hunting is eternal, many topics, I reckon, recycle. Yet, this topic makes me really think.

 

Over the solstice, coming back from a campout, my wife and I spotted a coyote acting "weird", and that wasn't hard, as the coyote was only three feet off the road. His head had matted blood, a cholla rested in his leg, and one paw was swollen. Otherwise, looked healthy, but had the characteristics of "pain." I got out, and dispatched him. I did not do an autopsy, but the overovew looked like buckshot, or rifle, wounds to the upper head and body. Not a pleasant task. Did someone fire a newly acquired 12. ga. at too far off a distance?

 

Anyone who shoots buckshot, or a round, needs to really grasp the limitations. Quite a few of you guys and gals that contribute to this sight, I realize, deeply understand this concept of limitations; many newer hunters, well do they?

 

If I wounded a deer, confirmed hit with blood, I'd like to say I would stop, but realize that is very tough call. I probably keep at hunting.

A side note. A friend new to hunting, elk in Colorado, had a experienced hunter as a mentor. Out this fall, the hunter wounded his first elk, with a bow. My friend learned alot about ethics. The elk wasn't found, even though the man went back for another day to look for the animal. My friend could not get off work, but the message was clear.