Landowner Tags being discussed this week.

[GhostBuster]

Well it looks like the discussion of landowner tags is taking place this week. I was looking at the forum on bowsite.com (G & F meeting in Kingman) and some of the folks over there are saying it is being discussed with the legislature on 1/26/05. I know that the proposed plan was posted on AZOD, it is called ranching for wildlife. I was given a copy of it by one of the ranchers that is behind this, Chuck & Beatrice Lang from the X bar One in unit 18 A north of Kingman, AZ. This document was written by Manuel Nikel-Zueger.

If you do a Google search on Mr. Zueger you will find some interesting info on this guy and the Savory method of ranching. This proposal has been in the planning for a couple of years now and they have organized the ranchers to close the ranches regardless of the state lease land or forest land within there boundries. A prime example is the Boquillas Ranch in Unit 10, over 175 square miles is still closed and they say the rest will be closed before the hunts start in the fall this year. Another document that was being passed around was a letter from George Taulman to AZ G&F that listed all of the ranches and why they would close unless the G&F issued them land owner tags.

This could be the end to hunting in Arizona, if they get the tags it would mean anyone with 4000 acres or more can have land owner tags. What do you think the fat cats that were behind USO's lawsuit will do then, buy every bit of available land they can!

[jamaro]

Is this for ALL animals??? Including, Elk?

jason

[DesertBull]

Let them close their ranches. Then take some helicopters and drive all the elk off their lease.

[.270]

folks can discuss the pro's and con's of this till the cows come home. it is still a way for uso and george taulman to get even more of the few permits for elk and pronghorn that are available in Arizona. "ranching for wildlife" is a just a name attached to the program to make a few folks think that there is this a real effort to help the wildlife. that ain't true. it's to give taulman more permits and it will take them away from everyone else, resident and nonres alike, who don't have the money or the inclination to hunt with uso. if this happens, and it is just stupid enough that it probably will, everyone of the permits will go to uso. taulman has the money behind him to offer the most to the permit holders. don't be fooled. this ain't a good deal. Lark.

[jamaro]

Not only USO but all outfitters and the Ranchers are going to make some cash off this deal.... I wonder if the total number of tags will increase or if the tags that are availble to public draw will decrease... Any Ideas..

jason

[.270]

i'm sure our all knowing, all seeing azgfd director and the commission will do whatever taulman tells them to do. i sure hope they have somebody readin' these sites so they can see how most folks really feel. it'd be a shame for em to be as hated as they are and not know it. the commission will do whatever is best for their political appearance and fiscal needs. they will not do what is best for wildlife and joe hunter. will a guy be able to apply for a hunt and then buy a permit too? what am i thinkin'. now i'm bein' greedy.

[coueshunter]

A guy will be able to buy a permit and draw one as well. This whole deal stinks and if anyone here is really concerned about AZ wildlife, he/she will make their voices heard. This proposal is not about my grandpa's ranch being over grazed or screwed up by elk/deer etc....its about money.........Allen Taylor.......

[ultramag]

well i wish i had lots of money,cause i would love this bill.but i dont.The thing that i am wondering is how much land is out there that could be closed?Is there places that are not posted that could be closed?are there places that i take for granted and did not no they where leased land.

[az4life]

Sounds like a lot of BS in the little catchy title of this proposal. I am not stupid or blind, nor do I believe most sportsmen are.

No matter how it is packaged, Manure is never going to taste and smell like a steak.

 

The AZGFD should note while considering this proposal, that the more restrictive and limited the hunting opportunities are percieved for the "Average Joe" .... the more poaching and illegal activities will probably take place by the people who cannot afford to participate in the sport legally. Unfortunate but I believe it is the way things will go..

 

As I understand, , the wildlife in the state belongs to the citizens of the state. The AZGFD is acting as a custodian of the public interests reguarding wildlife. While carrying out this task, they better look to the short term AND long term future before they pass some BS plan that favors the people who can pay more for the priviledge.

 

Just another .02 worth to chew on!

[CHD]

Lark, sorry to disappoint you and your "everything is Taulman's doing" mentality. Don't you realize that when you give him that much credit that you are putting the Scumbag, Slimeball, Greaseball, Lowlife-scum on a pedestal? He ain't that powerfull! He is just a small-time puke that is short-sighted and will get his (are you gonna be the one?) in the end. Taulman was a greedy, shyster, hustler a dozen years ago, nothing new there. He doesn't control huntin' in the west, he just thinks he does. I'd sure like to kick his butt.

 

Nevada, Utah, Colorado, and New Mexico all have landowner tag programs. Both Utah and Colorado also have a "Ranching for Wildlife" or CWMU program. Some of these programs have been in existence for many years. Taulman had nothing to do with any of these, as they were all started by ranchers.

 

Yes, greedy, starvin, opportunistic, organized, ranchers. They are just getting organized and going after a natural resource on their land that they know is valuable, just like in the other states. Ranchers tend to be timid when they are alone. But when they get organized................WATCH OUT!!!

 

I'm truly surprised that this hasn't happened in AZ before now, given the trophy quality there and competition for tags.

 

In Colorado, 15% of the tags in a unit go to landowners, who must draw for them as well. This is not counting the "Ranching for Wildlife" tags which have additional special seasons. Ranch hunting in Colorado is a long-time tradition. Hunting here has been VERY commercialized (and profitable to landowners) for over 20 years. So it's finally getting around to AZ.

 

Contrary to what we all wanna believe.............this is a capitalist society that we live in. Everything good, in the end, will be ruined by greed.

 

It's too bad that something dear to those of us on this forum will go down the same way.

 

Enough for tonite.

[Rembrant]

I've been playing 'Chicken Little': screaming, "The sky is falling, the sky is falling!!!" over in the Hunting in Arizona section of this forum about this situation. I thought all you guys were out hunting or asleep or just sitting on apathetic hands waiting for the worst to happen so that you all could complain about it later!!!

You can read the proposal at www.azod.com.

It is the most greedy, rediculous, outlandish, dangerous, selfish writing ever put to paper.

This is bigger than the USO fiasco, WAY BIGGER.

This is a bunch of greedy ranchers trying to put OUR state and federal lands to use to make the ranchers money and screw the good people of the State of Arizona out of our rights to our own land and the animals that live there.

In a nut shell:

The ranchers want any ranch with 2000 acres of privately owned land to be eligible to create their own "Wildlife Management Plan" that would also utilize their entire lease! They want the Game Dept to do all the work of determining the amout of permits that would be allocated to the various ranches in the program - sell the permits to the ranch at the regular cost and allow the ranch to re-sell them to the highest bidders. All of the money made would go to the rancher. The rancher will decide what weapons will be used and when the seasons will be within a 100+ day period.

I want to keep writing 'cause I'm real fired up about this. There's a whole lot of bull crap involved in this. The proposal wants the Game Dept watered down in committees to the point of impotence.

But instead, go find the proposal and READ IT!!

Then go to www.azleg.state.az.us/ and click on "How do I find my legeslators" and figure out what district you live in and who youre representitives are. Then E-MAIL, WRITE, FAX or CALL them and tell them what you think about this proposal.

THEN tell everyone you know to tell everyone they know to do the same thing.

The ranching lobby is powerful, but they ain't squat compared to the massive numbers of sportsmen and women of this state! The Game Dept does not support this. The Game Dept as a state agency must remain non-political. Because this is going before the state legeslature it is up to the people of the state to shout it down!

Legeslators are paid to listen to their constituants. If the cattle lobby squeeks more than us they will win - and we will deserve it!!!!

If we raise our voice we can quash this cancer dead out.

This is our chance to walk the walk.

STOP COMPLAINING AND DO SOMETHING!!

Mike

[Rembrant]

AZforlife,

This is not something that the AZFGD will pass or not pass. The Dept is not at all for this. This is a bunch of greedy weazling skallywags trying to sneek a land grabbing proposal by the state legeslature without anyone noticing.

CHD is correct. This thing is way bigger than USO

Do not fault the Game Dept.

Do not blame Taulman.

Y'all get off your butts and figure out how to be a constituant for the rights of Arizona Sportsmen. And then show everyone you know how to do the same thing!

Mike

[ghost hunter]

Rembrant is correct. If it was a program that G&F could institute, these people would be over there lobbying for it. Since it is not, they are at the legislature trying to get that committee to sponsor it.

 

Just listen to those, well most, of the hunters from New Mexico, Colorado and other states that have it. It only worked well for those on the inner circle, but if you were just an average Joe, you got the short end of the stick.

 

Just as it is with USO, the top three reasons for supporting this is: GREED

GREED

and yes, GREED

 

 

Since we all have a computer take a minute or two and send an e-mail to the representatives from your area. There is a list of the ones to contact in another forum on this site. The post is titled "Hunters Beware".

[Rembrant]

Jamaro,

The answer to your question is, "yes, elk too".

Ranching leases cover almost the entire state, and the ranchers want all the big game tags in all of the leases.

Take a moment to let that soak in, and then go to "Hunting in Arizona", read the post entitled, "Hunters Beware" and e-mail the representitives listed in that post and let them know how you feel about this "Ranching for Wildlife Proposal".

Thanks,

Mike

[.270]

can't remember where i read it, but taulman and his guys are the ones that started this. they got with the ranches that have fairly large amounts of private land and initiated this thing. this is about getting uso more elk tags. sure, the ranches will make some bucks selling permits, just like in new mex. and they are in this right along with taulman, but he's the guy that got this rolling. he's in on it from the start. it ain't about deer or javelina or turkey. it's about unlimited elk permits for uso's wealthier clients. they just figured out a way to get a real powerfull lobby behind it, in the cattlemen. as far as i'm concerned, a guy oughta be able to do just about anything he wants on private land. use it how he sees fit. mine it, log it, develop it, whatever. but if they're gonna use a state owned resource, like wildlife, as if it's a personall resource, similar to livestock, then they ought to at least have to pay the state for the animals. not vice versa. this whole thing stinks badly, and if you think uso ain't got anything to do with it, you're mistaken. and badly.