when does technology go too far?

[bonuspointjohn]

Recent technology improvements have made it possible to track an animal from the comforts of home. With Trail Cams there is no need to spend massive amounts of time in the woods. With great spotting scopes, high ground becomes more important than reading signs. With Quads and similar vehicles, there is no need to be physically more ready than anyone else. It begs the question, where do we cross the line? I know that the technology is out there to implant chips in an animal as we do our pets now. Why not use tranquilizers to bring every young bull down, implant them with a serialized chip and then dole out hunts to individuals with tracking devices? We have the technology to make those fall hunts almost a certainty. If we look back a mere 30 years ago, virtually none of what we use now was available then. What will the next 30 years bring? What improvements will be made that will put humans so far above our prey that the outcome is inevitable? What defines "fair chase"? what invisible line do we cross to the point where it becomes a slam dunk? When a premium tag hunter offers $10,000 finder fee for a 400" bull, does he violate fair chase? I am not pontificating about what should be. I am not promoting any particular philosophy. I am concerned however that by using means other than sweat equity we have lost far more than we have gained. Perhaps time has passed me by (59). Perhaps my thoughts are meaningless, my concerns not worth a second thought. I just wonder if anyone else is thinking that we are crossing the line too easily these days?...What say you my technologically superior brethren?

[COUESAZ]

The way I look at it is this. I do not use trail cams because I do not want to sully them to others. The people that use them right are still out researching and scouting the areas. The trail cams in most cases track the night activities. And shows what is using the area. When it comes to coues it is more than just jummping on a ATV and sticking a camera on trees. The guys I know that do it hike farther than I do. They also do it weekly. I do not get out that often or work that hard.

[Coach]

You might be doing things better than I am, but I've been setting out salt licks since I was a teenager (long time ago), checking tracks, etc. When the first trail cams came out, I had them set, spent every weekend checking them...

 

I've never yet had an easy deer hunt, and I've employed every device, every supplement, every tactic out there. Not trying to be confrontational, but when you post up pix of huge bucks taken year after year and can attribute it to technology, you might have something.

 

I know a few guys who year-after-year kill good bucks, some years great bucks. But it's not because they have the latest and greatest techno-do-it-all. They do it by jeeping, hiking and horse-packing in further, learning more about the bucks in their area, sleeping on snow, eating whatever they can pack in or kill (in season), and working harder for it than most of us are willing to work.

 

Technology does not make great hunters IMO. Simple guys working the hardest, dedicated to learning the habits and territory of trophy bucks, are the guys who post up the most pix of truly awesome bucks on this forum and others.

 

With all due respect, show me some evidence of hunters leaning too hard on technology for their success, and I'll post pics of guys who have hunted hard, slept in snow, done their homework, and did what other hunters could have done, but weren't willing to do - to earn some of the best archery coues taken in this state.

[youngbuck]

My cameras and big spotter puts me in the hills a lot of days. I dont do too much from the comforts of home. The guys who have upkept a salt in a secluded spot know how much work it can be. Guys who run cameras all over the state know how hard it can be.

 

Some lazy guy who hasn't put in the days, months, and years like a lot have, isnt going to be very sucessful. He might get lucky one day and arrow a toad over some salt, but it will be a fluke.

 

When I have a tag, I want to find and take the biggest or most unique animal I can find. It is a challenge to find great animals. It is a whole other game trying to take that single animal. It can be a very humbling experience often, but when all the hard work, time, and effort pay off and everything comes together; It can be an extremely rewarding experience.

 

I use all of the tools at my disposal, and that list starts with boot leather.

[aztrophytakers]

You might be doing things better than I am, but I've been setting out salt licks since I was a teenager (long time ago), checking tracks, etc. When the first trail cams came out, I had them set, spent every weekend checking them...

 

I've never yet had an easy deer hunt, and I've employed every device, every supplement, every tactic out there. Not trying to be confrontational, but when you post up pix of huge bucks taken year after year and can attribute it to technology, you might have something.

 

I know a few guys who year-after-year kill good bucks, some years great bucks. But it's not because they have the latest and greatest techno-do-it-all. They do it by jeeping, hiking and horse-packing in further, learning more about the bucks in their area, sleeping on snow, eating whatever they can pack in or kill (in season), and working harder for it than most of us are willing to work.

 

Technology does not make great hunters IMO. Simple guys working the hardest, dedicated to learning the habits and territory of trophy bucks, are the guys who post up the most pix of truly awesome bucks on this forum and others.

 

With all due respect, show me some evidence of hunters leaning too hard on technology for their success, and I'll post pics of guys who have hunted hard, slept in snow, done their homework, and did what other hunters could have done, but weren't willing to do - to earn some of the best archery coues taken in this state.

 

Pretty much says it all right there.

 

[Guest Bandido]

Yes I know that line and as of yet I have not crossed it. I still do things the old way. (Good/bad - Coues/cooze - tomato/tomate) And yes our thoughts are meaningless and our concerns are not worth a second thought.

[TAIL CHASER]

You might be doing things better than I am, but I've been setting out salt licks since I was a teenager (long time ago), checking tracks, etc. When the first trail cams came out, I had them set, spent every weekend checking them...

 

I've never yet had an easy deer hunt, and I've employed every device, every supplement, every tactic out there. Not trying to be confrontational, but when you post up pix of huge bucks taken year after year and can attribute it to technology, you might have something.

 

I know a few guys who year-after-year kill good bucks, some years great bucks. But it's not because they have the latest and greatest techno-do-it-all. They do it by jeeping, hiking and horse-packing in further, learning more about the bucks in their area, sleeping on snow, eating whatever they can pack in or kill (in season), and working harder for it than most of us are willing to work.

 

Technology does not make great hunters IMO. Simple guys working the hardest, dedicated to learning the habits and territory of trophy bucks, are the guys who post up the most pix of truly awesome bucks on this forum and others.

 

With all due respect, show me some evidence of hunters leaning too hard on technology for their success, and I'll post pics of guys who have hunted hard, slept in snow, done their homework, and did what other hunters could have done, but weren't willing to do - to earn some of the best archery coues taken in this state.

 

Pretty much says it all right there.

+2

[ghost hunter]

Guess it depends who you are because there are only a couple of lines to cross.

 

If you are G&F, you want to keep the heard at a sustainable level with the offered tags equal to what is over your defined optimal level (kind of explained by a supply and demand) only we (the hunters look at as hunt success ratio). If we get too skilled as hunters and the success ratio goes up, our length of season or available tags will start to go down. The archery pig season is almost getting to be the example. Used to be a month, now its 3 weeks long. If you look at the hunt success rates, they have climbed to near 30%.

 

As for an individual, you'll know when you've crossed that line when you wake up one morning and feel that your quality of satisfaction is lower because you are dependant on something other than your own personal ability (physical and/or mental). That you are using do-dads as a crutch.

 

 

[tjhunt2]

]

I am not promoting any particular philosophy. I am concerned however that by using means other than sweat equity we have lost far more than we have gained. Perhaps time has passed me by (59). Perhaps my thoughts are meaningless, my concerns not worth a second thought. I just wonder if anyone else is thinking that we are crossing the line too easily these days?...What say you my technologically superior brethren?

 

No, your thoughts are not meaningless and your concerns are worth a second thought. We will always continue to see even more technology and you raise a good guesstion however I really liked Coach's reply to that. I walked my but off, even though it doesn't show , for many years and put miles and miles scouting & hunting and was very successful over the years without alot of these new technology tools and now use many of the new gadgets and don't particularly seeing it getting any easier for me. Probably because I don't keep myself in the shape I should and I hate to use the can't word, but I just can't walk the hills like I use to. I'm getting older and now see an advantage to some of the new technology and if that means keeping more older folks in the woods during their older years then I'm all for it.

 

You said you have concerns about using means other than sweat equity we have lost far more than we have gained. I might have said something like that in my earlier years but now that I'm older I have to respectfully diagree with you. We have actually gained more knowledge of the game we hunt due to alot of this new technology and there are to many of them gadgets to mention. The computer is just one example of the things I'm sure you have used many times and probably didn't think about it being one of the tools of new technologies for gaining information towards increasing your odds of a successful hunt.

 

This is a good post and thanks for sharing your opinion on the subject with us.

 

Here is a picture I wouldn't have been able to share without new technology.

 

Dad's deer at 80yrs. He could have never walked to where we shot this without the aid of a quad and our new ground blind with a very comfortable seat made for maybe his last deer hunt.

[Guest Bandido]

My dad's last hunt was when he was 75. I got him a CHAMP but he would never shoot from a truck. He climbed up one of his favorite hills. It took him all of the morning. Then this "new age hunter" drove by him in an atv. Dad stood and looked at the guy until he was out of sight and on his way up the mtn - off road. Dad turned and walked off. All he said was that hunting for him was over. Cameras at waterholes, bait, hole sitting, atv's, e-scouting. What will happen when there are too many cameras in "sweet spots"? How many honey holes can there be in a given area? Or enough waterholes to "hunt"? I don't know because in a couple of years when I am free of my responsibilities I will still be doing things my way. I didn't say it is the only way nor the best. In a few years "hunters" will be able to push a button on their computer and kill a deer. It's not good or bad. It just is. It's people. Yes I know someone will be upset. Go put up a camera and get over it. I'd like to go with you just to get out there.

[.270]

as far as i'm concerned, as long as its legal, it's ok. legal=ethical. thats my opinion and all ethics are is your opinion about a subject. but there are a lot of things that are legal that i dont particularly care for, but if someone wants to do it, i don't really care. go ahead but stay out of the gray areas and don't do stuff that's bad for the rest of us. and i don't want somebody telling me i'm unethical when i'm legal, just because they don't agree, either. i don't like to see folks put out bait. salt, food, scents, all that stuff. in my opinion a guy oughta learn more about the critter and where he's hunting it. learn where the salt and water and feed is naturally and then go from there. i've poured out brine a few times in saddles and stuff, where there were old cattle salt licks that weren't kept up. done it several times to see what kind of tracks come to it. never sat on one. too boring to me. i'd rather make a stalk and miss than sit all day on a bait. just ain't my style. cornflingers and food plots and all that crap are just lazy and cause too many fights and will eventually make the azgfd make some sort of stand, like they had to with bear bait. but as long as it's legal, it's ok. it just ain't for me. if you wanna do it, fine. but you're cheating yourself out of experiences you can't believe by sitting on a bait. quads and trucks and stuff are fine too. as long you don't tear stuff up and stick to roads and trails and only go off road to retrieve an animal. you can always punk anything out on your back. but if you can get a quad or your pickup to it without doing serious harm to the land, have at it. i've done it a bunch. and i've punked a buncha stuff out on my back and with a horse or mule too. just don't tear stuff up, because eventually you'll piss off enough folks that the cops will hafta step in and make it illegal. the road up eagle creek past honeymoon is locked for 1/3 of the year because of a couple jackasses tearing the country up with their quads and fat cat bikes because they were too lazy and greedy while looking for elk antlers. 2 or 3 guys screwed it up for the hundreds of decent guys that stuck to the roads with their vehicles. trail cameras are sorta cool, but nothing i'm interested in. i think it's funny when guys whine about one getting stolen. what do you expect? heck, i got my air compressor stolen right outta my yard in the day time. folks steal stuff. you leave stuff in the middle of nowhere and it ain't gotta chance. but i think the photos that guys get are interesting. optics, range finders, long shootin' rifles, they're all fine and i use em. don't have a bunch invested in optics. i have good binoculars and a spotting scope i keep on an old rifle stock, but that's it. don't even own a tripod, but i am thinking of getting some big binos and a tripod. range finders are just too cool. i used to have eagle eyes, but no more. i need all the help i can get. one thing that really pisses me off and doesn't have much to do with techno stuff is these rich sob's that buy an auction tag, that joe hunter has no chance at, and then pays some outfitter and 15 of his lackeys to find him a big one and camp on it until richy rich can jet out and shoot it. i don't care if it's legal, it's bull$h!t and anybody that is involved in that kinda crap is bad for the sport. if you're gonna invest that kinda $$$ in something then invest a little time, bootleather and elbow grease too and be a man about things. sissys. but again, that's just my opinion and opinions are like buttholes, everybody has one, and all of em but mine stink. only thing that pisses me off is stupidity and lazyass. don't be stupid and don't be lazy. don't be a drag on the good guys. Lark.