CEI Report post Posted March 22, 2012 I have heard "HOW SUCCESSFUL" the Utah Tags & Convention are from several people. On the other hand, I have read & seen an "outcry" from some resident Utah Hunters, as to how the Tags & Convention haven't changed anything with relationship to the Mule Deer populations. So, here is the factual information I found on the UTAH DNR website: In 2006, according to the Utah DNR, the estimated Mule Deer population in Utah was around 320,000. In 2010, it was around 290,000. Utah General Deer Hunters afield: 1970-196,633 1976-187,450 1980-222,542 1986-202,549 1990-231,432 1996-109,394 2000-103,336 2006-88,452 year expo tags began 2010-87,725 post expo tags Here is the source link: 2010 Utah Annual Big Game Report Now with that said, one could state that the decline in population may have been caused by drought, so I wanted more facts. This was the only semi-drought year before fawning time. The bottom line is I just want the facts when it comes to this whole process. I have read a lot of opinions, thoughts & feelings, but these facts show me Utah's Tags & Expo have not helped their deer population. If I am missing something, help me out or if anyone has any other FACTUAL data please share & cite your source. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
runningbird Report post Posted March 22, 2012 Great job Craig, I just got off the phone with NOAA and was surprised to learn that Utah as a whole is not in a drought period. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CouesWhitetail Report post Posted March 22, 2012 Thanks for sharing some of the facts Craig...I posted in another thread what Utah is doing to help reverse the mule deer trend now...focusing on predator control since all the habitat improvements haven't seemed to help enough Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TLH Report post Posted March 22, 2012 This has been my point all along--Utah has moisture so why not have more critters? Also, Utah has a ton of Private Land that you must pay to get access to--there should be more deer because of the Private land. I was in Monticello a few years back and we hunted public land--after the first day you could'nt buy a deer on public land but take a look at the private and guess what? deer everywhere! they are not stupid they know where to go. Once again--how much money will it take to end this drought? Oh that's right--Mama nature can't be bought! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CEI Report post Posted March 22, 2012 Amanda, Can you provide us with a link to that thread? I would like to look it over. Here is a link with regards to how much money Utah has spent on Predator Control (mainly coyote control) over the past 6 years: Predator Management in Utah Does anyone have any actual data on where the money for Utah Predator Control is coming from? Is it coming from the Expo? Where are they targeting coyotes (units, public land, private land)? What is the fawn survival rate in these area, as compared to other areas? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CEI Report post Posted March 22, 2012 Amanda, Can you provide us with a link to that thread? I would like to look it over. Here is a link with regards to how much money Utah has spent on Predator Control (mainly coyote control) over the past 6 years: Predator Management in Utah Does anyone have any actual data on where the money for Utah Predator Control is coming from? Is it coming from the Expo? Where are they targeting coyotes (units, public land, private land)? What is the fawn survival rate in these area, as compared to other areas? If you look at the funding Utah is dumping into coyote control & the way elk herds are in the west, Anti's are LICKING their chops! Why? Because the wolf is what would directly impact the coyote & the elk herds. At least that's what my first thoughts are after looking at this data...Maybe I am going way out into left field on this one! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CEI Report post Posted March 22, 2012 I found it Amanda. "SB87 imposes a $5 fee on big-game hunting permits to go toward predator-control programs." Doesn't look like the Tags or the Expo are long term fund generators for this... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CouesWhitetail Report post Posted March 22, 2012 for others, here is the link to a couple articles I posted about the recent bills signed into law re:predator control in Utah... http://forums.coueswhitetail.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=31752 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CEI Report post Posted March 22, 2012 I don't like the bounty program at all. I personally don't mind paying more for funding a predator management program, but it needs to be based on science & fact, not just feelings. My grandfather was a federal predator control specialist for many years, it is more than just driving around & shooting a coyote. You are talking about isolating specific target animals, in specific areas, taking out the animals & then maintaining that area. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
40-year-AZ-hunter Report post Posted March 22, 2012 Sooooooo, all this stuff about the Utah miracle since "expo tags" is a bunch of hot air. They pick and chose their statistics. What a surprise. So lets compare what has happened to the deer permits between Utah and Arizona from 2006 (when the expo tags started in UT) to 2010 From Craigs data, the number of deer permits in Ut dropped by 1% in 5 years From the "2011 Hunt Arizona" book published by AZ G&F Dept and available for download on the G&F site, Arizona had 38,138 general deer tags in 2006 Arizona had 43,993 general deer tags in 2010 AN INCREASE OF 15% Gee, UT goes DOWN by 1% Arizona goes UP by 15%! Funny that's not what AZSFW is telling folks. Bruce Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
longshot 260 rem Report post Posted March 22, 2012 The Utah DWR cannot solve our problems with the same thinking that they used when they created them. Let them manage the coyote maybe they could do for coyotes what they have done for muledeer. I don't think anyone will ever receive $50 for a coyote. The funds for the Coyote program was given to the DWR to manage. It will be so hard to check in a coyote most will just give up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alpinebullwinkle Report post Posted March 23, 2012 The Utah DWR cannot solve our problems with the same thinking that they used when they created them. Let them manage the coyote maybe they could do for coyotes what they have done for muledeer. I don't think anyone will ever receive $50 for a coyote. The funds for the Coyote program was given to the DWR to manage. It will be so hard to check in a coyote most will just give up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alpinebullwinkle Report post Posted March 23, 2012 Noticed in the news the other nite two different individuals bitten by coyotes within Phoenix city limits. We need to capitalize on these occurrances and educate the public about the need to reduce predators.....and the benefits we will realize from the efforts! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andygrand Report post Posted April 3, 2012 I am late in getting to this thread so I apologize. I was born and raised in Utah. I have seen the struggles our deer herds are going through and really don't think that predator management is the biggest issue. If it is, I don't think it is the coyotes that need to be managed as much as it is the lion. More importantly though, the loss of traditional winter range is the biggest problem in Utah. I think that factor combined with poor management has led to the decline. The new regulations That Utah put into place this year are a step in the right direction but there is still a lot more that they could do better. Having lived in both states, I definitely feel like Arizona does a lot better job managing their wildlife. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
donniedent Report post Posted April 3, 2012 "Coyote predation has been implicated as a significant cause of mortality in most mule deer studies that were based on either radiotelemetry or experimental manipulation of predator populations where predation was thought to be a problem." That was taken directly out of one of the studies on mule deer predation on muledeerworkinggroup.com and so was this... "No studies have implicated predation by mountain lions as a major mortality factor of neonatal fawns, but this may be because this aspect has not been studied with radiotelemetry. However, mountain lions have been implicated as major predators of adult deer." Heres how I see it. In reading these studies I have come to learn that if an area is at carrying capacity for deer, predators take deer that would die anyway. If that area is below carrying capacity because of drought, predation does affect mule deer numbers. If Utah is not in a drought situation and mortality is up for a different reason ie, range loss, over hunting.... taking predators won't do a dang thing!!! If they are down because of predators, then so be it but that is a tough one to prove. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
