national monument designation

[coueshunter]

I just spoke with Miles Moretti of the Mule Deer Foundation. He is working on this along with Melissa Simpson of SCI. We really need to call/email/write letters to our Govenor Brewer. Grass roots efforts from local voters will really help. Get ahold of the Govenors office immediately............Thanks.........Allen Taylor.............

[Non-Typical Solutions]

This thread has me really perplexed...if that is really a word.

 

I go down to the local car dealer looking of a good used car. I am assured there is nothing wrong with the vehicle, it is clean, runs good and has been inspected by their mechanics.

 

One week later I am back at the dealer realizing that not only was the car a heap, everything that the dealer had told me about the car was incorrect.

 

Do I go back to that dealer for any more car deals?

 

Even if everybody around me is telling me that that car dealer is now on the up and up and everything is cool with that dealer?

 

We just had a record amount of people on this site discussing HB2072, and many of the people supporting that bill were shot down and sent off to Syberia.

 

Now these same people are warning us about legislation that is happening and we are supposed to believe that?

 

I am way out of touch and I don't get it................either too close to the forest to see the trees or too dumb to get it.....

[rthrbhntng]

Other have said it but it needs to be repeated.

This agenda of the groups that are pushing this media and information exchange with the public, groups and Federal legislators has been ongoing for years. Each time a President is ending his terms we see the agenda get publicity. These groups have been gathering support and signatures for many years. They are good at media releases and use things like the wolf and jaguars to pull at the heartstrings of uninformed public. In most of the documentation on Mexican wolves there was no wolves on the north rim of the canyon. Prey base supports that wolves could be introduced. Remember that 90% of historic habitat of the MGW is in Mexico, a fact that even the USFWS seems to have forgotten.

 

So here it has reared it's ugly head again in a push to have their people send letters and make calls to the President to sign off on this ever expanding idea to make more public land into a National Monument. That was not the intent of the power that was given to the President. The intent was to protect small areas of importance when things like development was encroaching on them.

 

Here is what Bruce posted earlier:

"The trouble is, our representatives have NOTHING to say about whether this happens or not. It is solely up to the President. The President can declare areas to be National Monuments. In an ironic way, this is more likely to happen if Obama is defeated in November. He then will feel no repercussions from controversial actions. That is exactly how we got many of the monuments in Arizona right at the end of President Clintons second term. His secretary of the interior, Bruce Babbitt was instrumental in getting Clinton to declare the Grand Canyon Parashant (strip), Ironwood, etc as well as some in other states right at the end of his term. It was even litigated in the courts and found that he did indeed have the authority.

 

Prior to the designation on the strip, Babbitt held public meetings in AZ about the idea. I went to one in Flagstaff in 2000. There was considerable opposition to the idea. When the designation came out, it included an even bigger area than had been discussed in the meeting. They just went for broke.

 

While it takes Congressional action to designate Wilderness or National Parks, it only takes the President's signature to designate National Monuments. The law that gave him the authority was originally believed to be for small areas of exceptionally unique characteristics. The nature mystics have found that liberal Presidents can us it to designate ever bigger "regular" areas and put them under the more severe management that goes along with the designation."

 

Yes, it is important that we the public of Arizona have our voices heard. There are groups gathering information and working together to sign onto letters to our Representatives, both in State and in Washington. It is important that you, the public, also let your representative know about your concerns, hopefully they communicate with the Pres.

Steve

[coueshunter]

Non-Typical, this is a real situation. Not a "scare tactic". I have spoken to quite a few people about this. Allen..................

[muskrat]

I also sent the information to the Hunters' Rights Division of the NRA

[Don Martin]

Non-Typical Solutions: Watch out! Those black helicopters are getting closer and those who speak of the threats to Arizona and Arizona's wildlife are just "plants" who only want to subvert and fragment the sportsman's community!

 

Oh by the way, I was at a meeting today with Congressman Gosar and a county supervisor from Mohave County and several from Kane and Washington County in southern Utah. A number of ranchers from the Strip and in Mohave County were all there. As was a news guy from the radio station.

 

Wow was I ever able to "brainwash" this bunch who apparently don't know how their constituency feels about this made up issue that I'm helping spread all over the sportsmen internet sites.

 

Geez guy, get a life.

 

This is for real, its a threat, and if all you can offer is to ask fellow sportsmen to look for conspiracies involving folks you probably have never met, you are truly out of touch my friend!

 

Don Martin

awoguide@citlink.net

928-303-9481

[donniedent]

Take it easy there Don. I understand what the guy is saying. We just had a "blowout" with people we thought were on our side and they did create alot of mistrust. Now the same folks want us to trust them. Now, this whole deal is no laughing matter and its very real but.... we didn't cause this mistrust! It is ironic that this comes on the heals of a tag grab mess and you cannot expect that we will just automatically throw our trust behind some that were trying to take tags away for private gain. "Geez guy, get a life"??? Not cool man!

 

Donnie Lee

[azslim]

family fights are the dirtiest.........we may not like SB2072 but the folks that introduced it hunt and a Natl Monument designation would hit them too, politics make strange bedfellows and this is politics at work

[donniedent]

A person in a position of leadership, whether appointed or seen a such by others needs to always be mindful of their words. You always need to strive not to alienate an idividual. There is a way no call a person out without belittling them. As soon as personal attack is included in a rebuttle, the true point is lost.

 

Donnie Lee

602.677.4537

[SilentButDeadly]

Why this proposal is completely ridiculous and has no chance of ever becoming reality:

 

1) The USFS (Department of Agriculture) is a different branch of Gov't than the BLM (Department of Interior) - USFS would go against acts of Congress (MUSYA 1960) by removing the Kaibab lands from their national system without Congressional/Presidential directive.

 

2) Additionally, the state trust and private parcels inside the BLM lands would have to change hands.

 

It would require acts of Congress with Presidential approval to make a monument - subsequently hundreds of lawsuits from every private ranching, logging, and sportsman group north of the ditch would ensuue, and that is just getting the Kaibab out of USFS hands.

 

Proving that the USFS, BLM, and AZGFD are not doing their jobs being sustainable land and game/fish agencies with ecologically sound management would cost the environmental groups more money than they have ever raised - and ultimately any findings would simply show the facts: the land is being managed to the best of their abilities. The same question could be asked of NPS and their management policies ("Are they working in the best interest of the land?")

 

If the USFS is ever taken from USDA and put into DOI than this calculus could come out differently.

 

Personal opinion: there is no momentum within the Fed anywhere to do this.

 

My suggestion is that sportsman groups pay to buy plane tickets for the CBD and their Wilderness council friends to go abroad and work on the devastation humanity is wrecking on the rest of the planet (maybe they can start in Bangladesh's ship breaker yards, or Somalia's fishing grounds that were wiped out by toxic waste dumping - ever wonder why they became Pirates?) - if those groups want to make a real difference they should be saving the places and people from 3d world overpopulation and toxic pollution, not fighting for endangered species they assume might wink out of existence if somebody sneezes in the woods.

[donniedent]

Excellent post! Thanks for shedding a different light on this for us. That leads to some very interesting thoughts on this troop rally and how much truth about this situation is being put out there. Is there an attempt to ingratiate to the masses by those that supported a certain bill? Or maybe I need to get a clue.

[TLH]

No one will or can stop it if Obama signs into law. Clinton left us with all kinds of Monuments just before he left office--he didn't have to get approval from anyone all he had to do was wave his wand (or cigar) and poof we had more Monuments we didn't need....

 

This is something to be very concerned about and we all need to try and do what we can to stop it. If we make our voices loud enough we may be able to stop it but knowing how Obama is he will sign it just in spite because he doesn't like the leadership in Arizona--yes he is that way.

[Non-Typical Solutions]

Non-Typical Solutions: Watch out! Those black helicopters are getting closer and those who speak of the threats to Arizona and Arizona's wildlife are just "plants" who only want to subvert and fragment the sportsman's community!

 

Oh by the way, I was at a meeting today with Congressman Gosar and a county supervisor from Mohave County and several from Kane and Washington County in southern Utah. A number of ranchers from the Strip and in Mohave County were all there. As was a news guy from the radio station.

 

Wow was I ever able to "brainwash" this bunch who apparently don't know how their constituency feels about this made up issue that I'm helping spread all over the sportsmen internet sites.

 

Geez guy, get a life.

 

This is for real, its a threat, and if all you can offer is to ask fellow sportsmen to look for conspiracies involving folks you probably have never met, you are truly out of touch my friend!

 

Don Martin

awoguide@citlink.net

928-303-9481

 

 

Don,

If you read my post it is very clear that I am perplexed, out of touch and now need to get a life.

 

I am OK with that, I hear that all the time from my 7th and 8th grade students, I am used to it.

 

I went ahead and visited your guide service site and read up on what it says there about you, seems to me like you have done alot of good for alot of people, served our country which I am every day thankful for those who serve us. You seem from a distance via internet to do alot of good for hunting and fishing in the state of Arizona.

 

 

You won't find much on me, I teach Jr. High wood shop, got 4 more years before I get out of education and do something different.

I have 4 boys a great wife and am enjoying my 52 birthday today.....at work, keeping an eye on my detention class.

I spend 8 months out of the year coaching wrestling, even though I played basketball in high school, sat the bench is more like it. My boys drug me into wrestling.

 

I like to hunt, fish, look for sheds and enjoy the great outdoors Arizona has to offer.

 

I don't worry too much about helicopters. My wife bought me a one day lesson down in Tucson for my birthday one year. Loved it, but my hat off to those who can fly one of those birds.

 

I never said I didn't believe we needed to worry about this "urgent" issue but your response to my question is what really worries me.

 

And I quote:

 

Wow was I ever able to "brainwash" this bunch who apparently don't know how their constituency feels about this made up issue that I'm helping spread all over the sportsmen internet sites.

 

End quote!!

 

This makes me believe you would rather us who need to get a life would not ask any questions and just go with what ever dog wags the tail.

 

A bill like HB2072 can get pushed before powers that be, unknown to the "constituency", the "constituency" gets told that the bill is dead and gone.

Now these same people are "warning" me about another "urgent" decision being made.

 

You tell me Don. What am I to believe?

 

I don't have any record book trophies, I get an elk tag every once in a while, a deer tag about every year cause I put in for high draw percentage ratio units like 27, never killed a pig, bear, lion,sheep or antelope. I love busting a coyote once in a while.

 

I am committed more than ever before to helping with hunting and fishing conditions in the state of Arizona.I have done more reading on this subject(AZ wildlife etc.) in the past three months than I have in the previous 50+ years.

 

I am not looking for conspiracy, just somebody honest enough to come clean on what is really going on out there.

[Snapshot]

No one will or can stop it if Obama signs into law. Clinton left us with all kinds of Monuments just before he left office--he didn't have to get approval from anyone all he had to do was wave his wand (or cigar) and poof we had more Monuments we didn't need....

 

This is something to be very concerned about and we all need to try and do what we can to stop it. If we make our voices loud enough we may be able to stop it but knowing how Obama is he will sign it just in spite because he doesn't like the leadership in Arizona--yes he is that way.

 

Yep. Obama is the weak link in why this could happen. Our Govenor stood up to him and gave him an ear full. Dictators don't like people that stand up to them. Obama will always have a "I'll show you who's boss" attitude. He will do it, even if it is wrong.

[TLH]

Non-Typical Solutions: Watch out! Those black helicopters are getting closer and those who speak of the threats to Arizona and Arizona's wildlife are just "plants" who only want to subvert and fragment the sportsman's community!

 

Oh by the way, I was at a meeting today with Congressman Gosar and a county supervisor from Mohave County and several from Kane and Washington County in southern Utah. A number of ranchers from the Strip and in Mohave County were all there. As was a news guy from the radio station.

 

Wow was I ever able to "brainwash" this bunch who apparently don't know how their constituency feels about this made up issue that I'm helping spread all over the sportsmen internet sites.

 

Geez guy, get a life.

 

This is for real, its a threat, and if all you can offer is to ask fellow sportsmen to look for conspiracies involving folks you probably have never met, you are truly out of touch my friend!

 

Don Martin

awoguide@citlink.net

928-303-9481

 

 

Don,

If you read my post it is very clear that I am perplexed, out of touch and now need to get a life.

 

I am OK with that, I hear that all the time from my 7th and 8th grade students, I am used to it.

 

I went ahead and visited your guide service site and read up on what it says there about you, seems to me like you have done alot of good for alot of people, served our country which I am every day thankful for those who serve us. You seem from a distance via internet to do alot of good for hunting and fishing in the state of Arizona.

 

 

You won't find much on me, I teach Jr. High wood shop, got 4 more years before I get out of education and do something different.

I have 4 boys a great wife and am enjoying my 52 birthday today.....at work, keeping an eye on my detention class.

I spend 8 months out of the year coaching wrestling, even though I played basketball in high school, sat the bench is more like it. My boys drug me into wrestling.

 

I like to hunt, fish, look for sheds and enjoy the great outdoors Arizona has to offer.

 

I don't worry too much about helicopters. My wife bought me a one day lesson down in Tucson for my birthday one year. Loved it, but my hat off to those who can fly one of those birds.

 

I never said I didn't believe we needed to worry about this "urgent" issue but your response to my question is what really worries me.

 

And I quote:

 

Wow was I ever able to "brainwash" this bunch who apparently don't know how their constituency feels about this made up issue that I'm helping spread all over the sportsmen internet sites.

 

End quote!!

 

This makes me believe you would rather us who need to get a life would not ask any questions and just go with what ever dog wags the tail.

 

A bill like HB2072 can get pushed before powers that be, unknown to the "constituency", the "constituency" gets told that the bill is dead and gone.

Now these same people are "warning" me about another "urgent" decision being made.

 

You tell me Don. What am I to believe?

 

I don't have any record book trophies, I get an elk tag every once in a while, a deer tag about every year cause I put in for high draw percentage ratio units like 27, never killed a pig, bear, lion,sheep or antelope. I love busting a coyote once in a while.

 

I am committed more than ever before to helping with hunting and fishing conditions in the state of Arizona.I have done more reading on this subject(AZ wildlife etc.) in the past three months than I have in the previous 50+ years.

 

I am not looking for conspiracy, just somebody honest enough to come clean on what is really going on out there.

 

 

That is one awesome post buddy!! Sometimes the passion will make us mad enough to write something we should have re-read prior to hitting the send button. In your case i appreciate your tact and your wit at the same time.

 

P.S. Your boys are awesome for getting you away from B-ball and on the mat! May i ask what school you coach at??