AZ Game and Fish releases survey results

[dave]

While some on the Commission and some in the Department may think this is a fair and scientific survey, I totally disagree. How they chose who to take the survey may be argued to be fair but the way the questions were written and designed were not. It is clear the questions were designed to produce certain results that were desired. They don’t want to know the truth and I certainly don’t buy this survey at all as representing the truth. What it represents is a few Commissioners and a Department that wants to achieve what they want to achieve and will screw the dedicated hunters of this state to do it.

 

I am done dealing with these folks.

 

What they need is for every sportsman’s group in this state to abandon them. No more raffles, no more auctions, no more wildlife projects, no more support when the legislature wants to slash there budget, NO SUPPORT FOR A BALLOT INITIATIVE FOR SALES TAX BUT RATHER SOME MAJOR OPPOSITION.

 

I am done. It's called hunter retention.

[Diamondbackaz]

serious and non serious

 

I agree. I think the tag fee for premium hunts should be about $4000. That will REALLY weed out the ones that aren't serious...

 

I would be willing to pay 3 to 4 times the standard tag price for the Dec coues to deal with less hunters, closer to the rut, and 16 days of hunting over a 6 day October hunt dealing with a bunch of goons. If it doubles the chance of getting drawn, it's worth it.

[KGAINES]

Dave I hope your not right, the tags could be sold on ebay for a fortune and if they needed more money they could issue more auction tags and who would oppose that. If all the groups got together and stopped with all the projects and the it would have a little impact, but they would still sell all the tag allotments and maybe even more since there would be no one to oppose them and they could sell however many they wanted. We need more people like you to show up at the meetings, not more people to give up.

[jamaro]

/quote]

I have said in the past on this site that there are two types of hunters, serious and non serious. That is why I have advocated premium prices for the premium hunts. Serious hunters will pay more for a quality tag with less hunters.

 

 

WY has a system exactly like this... The Preferred tags are twice as much.... It is all about the money... As a general rule I think AZ is much more expensive than other states... Most states don't require you to purchase a license...

 

J-

[dave]

If all the groups stopped with all their support it would have no impact??? Why be in a group? Why support anything???

 

What would all the legislators think if the Game and Fish had to sell their auction tags on eBay to non-residents because all the resident hunters were fed up with their bull and quest for money? What would all the legislators think when the G&F wants to pay ballot collectors to go collect ballots for their 1/20th of a cent sales tax to generate 55 million dollars a year for them?

 

What would the Governor think? Hey, the state and the governor could swipe that too.

 

After hunting in Arizona for over 40 years I have never seen such a quest for money that compromises the resource.

 

We are on the black train headed on the south road to screw up Arizona for many years.

 

A few Commissioners we have are arrogant and spit in the face of the faithful. I guess they have personal agendas to accomplish.

 

WELCOME TO COLORADO

[Diamondbackaz]

/quote]

I have said in the past on this site that there are two types of hunters, serious and non serious. That is why I have advocated premium prices for the premium hunts. Serious hunters will pay more for a quality tag with less hunters.

 

 

WY has a system exactly like this... The Preferred tags are twice as much.... It is all about the money... As a general rule I think AZ is much more expensive than other states... Most states don't require you to purchase a license...

 

J-

 

Should a September bull elk hunt have the same price as a limited opportunity cow tag???????

[hawkeye]

I am sorry, but I disagree with you. "Absolute power corrupts, absolutely. This is not just a saying, but is a truth born of the ages. There are no checks and balance with this beurocratic branch of government. There is no organization or any one but the Game and Fish Dept. involved with the drawings and the money allocation. With the money from the lottery, and some of the highest priced resident hunting and fishing prices in the country, this should be one of the richest Game and Fish Dept. in the country. Just try and see if you can attend the drawing process. I have been told that the prisoners from the state prison are the ones contracted to administer the big game draw. Of course this might just be a rumer, but if anyone could please tell me in detail who is involved, and how the drawing works I would appreciate it. Not anyone I have asked who works for the G&F can tell me. My daghter-in-law was drawn for Unit 9 archery tag with 0 points last year. I went to help her and talked to about 15 other hunters. Not one of the other hunters were resident hunters. Most were from back east. Something sure seems fishy to me.

Until hunters demand a vote we will be treated any way they like. My choice is to hunt other states and the rez. I must have a million points. Put those points between two pieces of bread and see what kind of sandwich it makes.

[DesertBull]

If all the groups stopped with all their support it would have no impact??? Why be in a group? Why support anything???

WELCOME TO COLORADO

 

Actually, Colorado is the exact opposite. They went from OTC deer tags, to limited numbers and a drawing. Their sportsmen were fed up with dwindling deer herds and declining quality and got their G&F to listen to them, stop selling too many tags, and manage the resource instead of the revenue. Now Colorado, once again, has one of the top mule deer hunts in the country.

 

Now, sportsmen in Colorado have started to hammer the powers that be on their farce of a landowner tag system. They recently got the rules passed that prohibit the land owners from selling to tag brokers who then turn around and mark up the price and re-sell them.

 

Next up, they are trying to remove the provision from the land owner tags that allow the purchaser to hunt unit-wide on a land owner tag. Right now, if you by a tag from a "rancher", you are not linited to hunting the ranch, you can hunt anywhere in the unit that the ranch resides.

 

The Governor of AZ has succeeded in populating the Game Commission with individuals that are in favor of managing our wildlife as a source of revenue that they can tap into (see the recent posting reguarding the legislature's attempt to raid the G&F coffers) when needed instead of managing it with biological reasoning.

 

Notice the reaction of the commission when the legislature passed the recent non-resident caps. They were furious. Why? Maybe because the NR tags sell for 4x the cost of a resident tag? Notice also that they were not real keen on trying to get the USO court ruling overturned. They put up a good show when it originally went against AZ, but it took a liberal congressman from Nevada to actually get anything done. Were they really (secretly) happy that they were going to be able to sell unlimited numbers NR tags? Who knows?

 

Notice also the timeline of events in the last year or so. First, the Commission and G&F lobby for increased fees. They use then current license and tag sales to justify their need for higher prices. Then, once that is passed, they start in with hunter recruitment campaign. This is designed to sell more licenses and tags. IF they had increacded tag sales first, their budget numbers would not have looked so bleak and they probably would not have received the price boost that were looking for. So, now they have not only increased the price of tags and licenses, they are on way to issueing many more tags and licenses to further increase the revenue stream.

 

I am not against the G&F making more money, as long as it used to manage wildlife with sound biological principals and with those that are paying the bills having some say. If they just want to fill the bank so that it can be later raided for some general budget shortfalls, well then, they can pound sand.

[DesertBull]

I have been told that the prisoners from the state prison are the ones contracted to administer the big game draw. Of course this might just be a rumer, but if anyone could please tell me in detail who is involved, and how the drawing works I would appreciate it.

 

I believe it used to be this way, but people started complaining that the prisoners had access to your SS number, address, birthdate, and possibly the dates that you would be away from home, they stopped doing it, I THINK.

[hawkeye]

One thing about Colorado is that they have preference point system instead of a bonus point system. Here is the difference.

 

Preverence point system: The people with the most points get the tags. So eventualy everyone will recieve a tag and the draw is open for everyone to see. If someone got a tag that had less points than someone else then, you would be able to know. Also you know about how long it will take to be drawn for certain units.

 

Bonus point system: Totally random draw where some people could get drawn almost every year while some could concievably never be drawn. If someone with no moral integrety decided to give a tag out nobody would be the wiser. Also with this kind of system there is no accountabilty. The people in charge of the draw can do anything they wish. I am not saying that this is happening, but it could, and probably is. How can the public put up with such a corrupt way in which a government agency works.

Apperantly hunters don't give a damned, and don't care if they are reprsented or not.

[jim]

The prisoners are contracted thru az correction industries (aci) to do data input of the paper apps and have done so for years. There are many aci jobs in our prison system.

[hawkeye]

The prisoners are contracted thru az correction industries (aci) to do data input of the paper apps and have done so for years. There are many aci jobs in our prison system.

 

One thing for sure, not every one would buy a lottery ticket if it were a secret draw by prisoners from the state prison. So why does every one assume that the draw is on the up and up. Just because they say it is? I am not saying that it is corrupt, but if it isn't why is it done the way it is. In Colorado they have a preference point system, and with that system it is easy to tell if someone is fiddling with the system. Three years ago my daughter-in-law was not drawn for an archery tag. Then two nights before the hunt she got a phone call from the Game and Fish Dept. and was asked if she would like a bull tag. She said well heck yes. What a crappy hunt. We didn't do any scouting. We didn't set any stands and we had to work our butt off to get her out hunting. She sure as heck didn't say no, who knows when she would get another tag. Not only that if she refused she would lose her points. What a bunch of crap. Tell me there isn't something going on a little fishy with the draw. I have never been drawn for antellope, 8 years for an archery bull tag, and three years for a coues tag. I am sure the ones on the in with the GFD and some lucky few who get drawn a lot wouldn't change a thing.

[dave]

The Colorado preferance point system has been mentioned many times on many threads.

 

I know it won't work in Arizona with our less than 15 foot snow pack. Can some of you Einsteins tell me how this would work?

 

We have very few animals here.

 

Last time I checked Arizona was a desert.

[hawkeye]

The Colorado preferance point system has been mentioned many times on many threads.

 

I know it won't work in Arizona with our less than 15 foot snow pack. Can some of you Einsteins tell me how this would work?

 

We have very few animals here.

 

Last time I checked Arizona was a desert.

 

what does a preference point system have to do with snow pack? It means that the people with the most points get the permits. It is as simple as that. So if you have been applying for several years you will accumilate enough points eventually to draw a tag. In a bonus point systm someone could go their whole life without drawing a tag. I know this for a fact. My dad is 76 years old and has drawn only one elk tag his whol life. Also in a bonus point system there is no accountability. In other words if anyone wanted to screw with the results of the draw no one would be the wiser. In a preference point system it polices itself. Because people would know if someone with less point than they had got drawn.

[KGAINES]

So with a preference point system we better start putting our kids in now and we can tell them that for sure before they die they will be able to hunt elk in AZ, but just not in the next ten years or so, but hey hunting is great tell your friends. In the preference point system we would lose young hunters and the way we are losing hunters now it is an even bigger problem for our future. At least with the bonus point system everyone has a chance, and at thats better than knowing that there are ten years ahead of you for sure before you get a chance. As far as deer goes in AZ there are leftover tags every year, if you want a deer tag all you have to do is apply down south for one of the early hunts and your odds are really good. If you want the Kaibab tag every year or the December Coues hunts then it might take a while. We aren't Colorado, we are AZ, do we want to be like other states and have land owner tags, have private game ranches, there are a lot of things that the AZGFD do that piss me off, but they are still better than most. If you want change get involved in some way or another, go to the AZGFD meetings and tell them what you think, help a group of your choice with habitat for our game animals, what we don't want is to sit around and wait for someone to fix it for us, because it will never happen. Everyone should have an opinion and nobody needs to agree with it, its when you quit caring that we lose, this is our sport and we need to fight for it.