jay gates crossing the border

[.270]

i know, i profess to never read magazines, but i fell off the wagon and did a little last night. i like to look at the pictures. all them word deals just confuse me. anyway, my youngest son brung home the trophy hunter last night. a magazine i don't much care for, other than the photos. dang, some guys sure shoot some nice bucks. my only real beef with em is all the "green scores" and "gross score" stuff. to me that's like sayin "BS" and "BS". if you're gonna go to the trouble of scorin' something, have it done right or just say, "hey, i scored it myself and did the best i could". anyway, i digress, whatever that means. there was an article about jay gates, a guy i've heard of before, and some other dude that shot some bucks in ol' mejico last year. one was real impressive and i decided to read the article to see if it said how wide it was. it didn't, but it went into a little detail about em gettin' busted at the border by the mexicans and the feds and gettin' charged with a buncha stuff. sounded like a real bag o' worms to me. anyway, from the article, i gathered that there ain't no way to safely go across the border and bring back a deer. according to what i read, they, (the mexicans) want to change the rules on a regular basis and then don't tell anyone that they did. i read a little about this situation on here awhile back, and didn't understand it real well then. probly because i never plan on hunting in mexico. seems like ever time i go there them jokers chunk me in the poky for some reason. last time i went i got a $500 parkin' ticket. yeah, i parked on top of a mexican, but heck, i didn't see him. anyway, does anyone know what it takes to go to mexico and come back with a deer and not go to prison? why didn't gates' outfitter have everything all hunkydorry for him? or is it as the article claimed, anyones guess as to what the rules are. i would imagine the usfws guys have a pretty set procedure, but it seems they even violated that too. talk about a bummer. spend a fortune, shoot some dandy bucks, and then get hammered at the border. seems if they were tryin' to evade the law, they woulda snuck across and not walked right up to a port of entry and declare their stuff. anyway, anybody got the silver bullet for this? Lark.

[Guest Ernesto C]

Please allow to dissagree with your opinion:

 

1- There is a legal way to cross the border to Mexico

 

2- There is a legal way to cross your deer back to the U.S.

 

3- They did not get busted by Mexican authorities,they did get in trouble with the

U.S.F.W.S.

 

4- If the rules change,who's responsablility it is to know the rules?

 

Jay Gates had hunted Mexico several times,it is my understanding that this time was his outfitter the one that make a mistake of not checking tags and contracts and cost Jay and his friend big. Jay several times trusted his oufitter before and there was no problem but he should double check himself that he was ok. The negligence of his outfitter will be sometime Jay will always remember and I bet he will learn form this lesson.

 

Lark if you want to hunt in Mexico your outfitter should provide you with all the information you need but still find the truht for your self so make some phone calls to the U.S.F.W.S. and to the mexican authorities PROFEPA,SEMARNAT. etc. and compare that information with the one your outfitter is giving you.

 

Take care and God bless and if you need more detailed information you can email me or I will post it here if some other fellow members need that information.

 

Thank you.

 

Ernesto C.

[.270]

no opinion here. just trying to form one. from what i gathered from the article, the troubles started when the mexicans changed the rules and for whatever reason, gates and his friend were ignorant of it. can't really see where the lacey act stuff even applies. it ain't like they tried to decieve anyone. it wasn't an endangered species. it appears they tried to satisfy all the rules. i mean it's pretty apparent that someone (either the feds or the mexicans) feels they broke the law, but i sure don't see any intent to break the law. looks to me like if the mexicans were serious about bringing american $$$ down there they would devise a plan that was a lot less confusing than what they have now. man, i got a headache just reading what i read last night. can't imagine what it'd be like to actually have to try and get all the "papers" that you have to get to shoot a deer and bring it back. also sounds like whoever his outfitter was really screwed em over too. and the feds? who the heck knows what those guys are thinking. they purposely draft laws and policy that are so confusing that no one but them can explain it. they also have a lot of rules that crossover each other some and that really muddies things up. like i say, don't have a real desire to hunt in mexico or fish anywhere but in the ocean. heard too many horror stories about it. just wondering what really happened. the article was sorta vague it seemed. Lark.

[coueshunter]

Lark, I was down in Mexico this past January and had the pleasure of the shed horns I picked up confiscated by USFW at the nogales border crossing. I am friends with Jay Gates and am pretty familiar with what happened along with some new info put out by USFW to help minimize these types of situations. Ernesto is right, your outfitter should take care of most paperwork issues. Yes Jay has learned something but it cost him alot......Arizona Deer Association just had their hunters clinic and Jay Gates spoke, Doug McKenna from USFW spoke along with some others. This clinic and the people who spoke were intentionally there so we avoid these types of problems in the future. Both Jay and Doug want to see NO Problems at the border. Lark, I can fill you in on some details if you want but for everyone I want to make sure they understand the most of any problems with Mexico seem to be from the U.S. and not Mexican officials. We have alot of agencies like Border Patrol, USFW, Department of Agriculture etc.....and I think it creates alot of confusion. Anyone going to Mexico should call USFW here in Phoenix first to get a copy of their recommended proceedures. In addition to this, MuleyCrazy magazine has a checklist on their website and maybe Ernesto could do this here at Coueswhitetail so nobody else gets stuck at the border......Allen......

[.270]

so, did they get their racks back or are they still fighting this deal? man, that one buck was a thug. they were both nice, but the one was really big. anytime i see "lacey act", it spooks me. there ain't no end to what they can charge ya with once that gets started. but it also seems like if you fight it long enough, they sorta give up. as in "operation navajo buck". they busted one o' the klumps some years back and the last i heard they just sorta forgot about him because he just refused to talk or deal anymore. he had jaguars, margays, ocelots, poached bighorns and all kindsa stuff. i think it's a shame to pound on someone who wasn't intending to break a law. ok, fine the guy so he don't forget next year, but this felony crap is too wierd. brings back all them bad memories of chain gangs and mean wardens hollerin', "what we have here is a failure to communicate". by the way, who was the outfitter? was the outfitter and the guide the same outfit? Lark.

[GRANDE BEAR]

IF ALOT OF THE PROBLEMS WE HEAR ABOUT MEXICO ARE ACTUALLY ON THE US SIDE, WHAT DO THE MEXICAN OFFICIALS ACTUALLY CHECK FOR? IS IT JUST YOUR TAG AND LICENSE? OR IS THERE ANY ADDITIONAL FORMS YOU NEED THAT ARE SEPARATE FROM WHAT USFWS REQUIRES? IS BRINGING BACK YOUR CAPE A PAIN ALSO, OR IS IT PRETTY EASY PROVIVING YOUR PAPERWORK IS IN ORDER? ANY INFO WOULD BE HELPFUL

 

ALBERT

[Arizona Griz]

I have been to Mexico a couple of years ago and all I can say is that it is an EXPERIENCE getting across the border with guns and ammo. Plan not getting in a hurry or you are just going to piss someone off. It took us about 4 hours to go 100 yards. I found the border problems not really being so much of a problem except for the time element but the Mexican Federal Military roadblocks further down in Mexico were another story. Most of the military people were very young dressed in brand new G.I. Joe uniforms carrying brand new AK-47 assult rifles. Not one of them could speak English which in reality they shouldn't be required to since we were in their country. But it can get a little scary.

[Guest Ernesto C]

GRANDE BEAR the paper work that mexican officials request in order to hunt and bring your deer back to the U.S. is exactly the same you'll have to present to the U.S.F.W.S. If you are missing something then you'll be in trouble in both sides of the border.

 

This paper work may include:your contract,your tag(with your name on it )the UMA number,the R.T.V. form properly stamped and checked by mexican authorities (PROFEPA) and a copy of the T.A. of the ranch.

At the border you must declare your deer and fill out a Declaration of Importation and Exportation form.

 

Your Cape must be solid frozen and your antlers free of blood and hair or you'll be in trouble with the Dept. of Agriculture.

 

Remember that in the mexican side there are some military check points,those guys are doing thier jobs,if you have guns they are making sure you have them there legally,I dont know why it took Arizona Griz to much time to cross the border,a military representative should have being wating for them to check their guns.Did you went thru and oufitter AZ Griz? Some one should be translating to you guys,the outfitter or an outfitter representative.

 

I wish I can have plenty of time on my hands so I can go with you guys to Mexico and help you with the translation and make your trip back and fort a lot easier.

 

 

Thank you,take care and God bless.

 

Ernesto C.

[Arizona Griz]

Ernesto C., our hunt was not as formal as most of the high dollar hunts. We hunted on a ranch east of Hermasillo and guided ourselves. We did go thru a Mexican Outfitter which is obviously required but we did not have anyone meet us at the border. We went thru the border at Naco. The U.S. side was just as bad as the Mexican side. When we came back thru it was much quicker.

[.270]

do you still have to pay off everybody and their cousin, like you used to? i've only crossed the border, on land, once in the last 30 years. just walked over to nogey waiting for a highschool football game to start. bought a sombrero and a sarape' and drank a couple o' them good mexican cokes that still have real sugar in em. last time before that was in the 70's. had to pay off about 15 guys to get a mexican drivers license, insurance and tourtista sticker. than had to pay off the federalies out side o' town aways at some check point. dang, a guy needed a whole fist fulla dollar bills. at the checkpoint we didn't have enough singles so they made change. pretty bad when they'll make change on a bribe. anyway, sounds like too much work for me to go hunt down there. sounds like gates' guide really let him down too. Lark.

[Guest Ernesto C]

Why you need it a drivers license? Why you had to pay at the check point? Something wrong or illegal?

If everything is legal you should not be paying anything out of the normal.

 

Aahhh!! wait a minute I know why you need it a drives license,because they saw you parking your truck on top of a mexican,yea no wonder.

 

Ernesto C.

[More D]

.270

 

You should stay FAR AWAY from Mexico! All it is a big pain, and not worth your trouble and time.

 

 

 

[.270]

i kinda doubt i'll ever hunt there, mored. too 'spensive. too much work. and i know you're bein' a little 'feces'-ious, too. i've never been there and felt real comfortable. since fox has become president, the graft and junk has been cut way back. but there's still too much stupidity there for me. hear too many horror stories about guys gettin' pirated while bass fishing and hi-jacked while hunting. couple years ago 2 guys from my old hometown got killed in a car wreck down there. they were bass fishin' it seems. the mexicans basically kidnapped the bodies. their families had to pay off every sob from where they got killed to the border. had to pay to have em embalmed multiple times. had to pay for for crappy coffins. one of em's wife was a mormon and somehow or another the church had enough ties to finally get em back. if you'll kidnap a dead guy, well that's just pretty low. i'm glad guys get to go and have fun. there are some magnificent bucks taken down there every year. and the people are great folks. don't get me wrong there. folks are folks, everywhere. just some of em end up in real poor "systems", like mexico has. but it also seems that gates and his buddy woulda been better off paying a little more attention to a couple details. Lark.