AZ Hunt/Fish Fees

[Kevin]

Just for everybodies info, New Mexico is raising both resident and non-resident fees as well. Info can be had under the "Legislation" on the NMG&F website.

 

Kevin

[coues addict]

Hey guys

I finally got my computer fixed and I just had to chime in on this one! I am a nonresident and I actually thought the nonresident deer tags were very reasonable up to now! I have been hunting Az. for around thirty years. I will probably cough up the extra money somehow for the deer hunt, but on the elk and sheep we will just have to see. I believe the animals themselves are worth every penny and more. I like a mail in your money first system and I hope they go back to that. I just hate to see prices get to high because of the young people Residents or nonresidents that we have got interested in hunting and then cannot afford to go because of absorbent prices! I hope that Az. game and fish doesn`t get totally outrageous or I will not be able to afford to hunt in Az. and that really sucks! I think Az. is probably the best of the western states that I have hunted, which include Ca.,Nev.,Utah,New Mexico,Montana,. I guess I will shut up now. Talk to ya later Coues Addict

[fatfootdoc]

There is actually a page on the NMDGF website that shows new prices for resident and non resident hunts. I tried to attach it but I don't know if it worked. The address is as follows

http://www.wildlife.state.nm.us/department...ments/sb_77.pdf

This is the first time in 10 years there has been a hike, but it seems fair, however should they make a habit of raising tags yearly it won't be much fun.

AG

[WAcoueshunter]

I'm also a NR who hunts in AZ each year with my friends and family. In fact, I just got back this morning from a pig hunt in 19A (holy cow it rained a lot this weekend!).

 

I'm also going to feel the pinch of any tag increases. But I really doubt AZGF is going to max out their new price ranges in the near future. Why would they do that? If they wanted to price out average joe NR's from your average November coues hunt, they would have done so already. It's all about supply and demand, and most NR's will stop coming if the price is too steep. And if they stop coming, AZGF will just be that much more in the hole, because there just aren't enough rich guide clients clamoring for November coues hunts to make up the difference.

 

What they're trying to cash in on is the incredible NR demand for the premium hunts - e.g. your trophy bull and Kaibab muley hunts. I have no problem with this. How many of you NR's were putting in for those hunts anyway? My sense is these premium caps won't affect many of us, at least those of us NR's who hunted AZ with our friends and family. NR's don't apply for Kaibab tags to hunt with their friends and family, because if they did, they wouldn't see their relatives very often! The NR applicants for these tags are guide clients and NR's who have no attachment to AZ other than the fact that they saw some pictures of B&C-worthy bulls and bucks come from AZ. Charge those guys up the kazoo!

[bcoover]

I am all for the increase. I also disagree with you all saying it is a rich mans sport now. We spend far more money on guns and other things we take on our hunts. I spend a hundred dollars every time I go scouting just in gas and food. So what if the tags are more. Maybe is will increase the value of the deer. Who is going to shoot a spike when it cost you all that money. Next thing you know they are always big bucks where ever you go because everyone will only shoot a three point of better. Plus there will be more bucks. I must say it is nice when you go hunting and you see tons of deer even if they are not big enough. Someone also said the AZ hunting is the best, that is because the game and fish does do somthing other than making us mad. I have been disapointed in them these past few months the increase is the first thing to bring a smile to my face.

[az4life]

Wetmule

 

the fact is, Hunting is already a sport which excludes a great many due to the high costs.

 

Included in the price of the tag is not the only "cost" associated with a hunt. When a citizen decides to pursue a traditional way of life in terms of hunting, it involves a lot more.

 

The trip, to the hunting area, involves a Vehicle(s) offroad transportation, Fuel, Equipment, Optics, Packs, Rifle or bow, ammunition, hours upon hours and days upon days of scouting, and hiking, Cameras, Maps, technology, layers of clothing, Camping gear such as tents, trailers, Food and drinks and tons more supplies.

 

Add that all up and what we have is already a sport that is not for the "average" guy". We must consider all the costs, not just the tag in considering if the impact a few more dollars will have on the average hunter.

 

So hunting fees might go up... Where will increased tag fees fit in your budget?

 

Consider...Add up your regular taxes (SSI, Fed , State, Taxes) plus Insurance premiums for life, health, dental, Auto, Home coverage, Mortgage, Or rent, Car payments, Food, clothing, and education. After all that, tack on a 8-10% sales tax on everything you buy or rent, plus taxes on Gasoline, Electricity, Water, Sewer, Telephone, Alcohol, Cigarretes, trash pickup, Natural Gas, Hotel and car rental surcharges, and the decent paycheck you thought you had is now cut down to very little left for savings or extravagant things like a hunting tag.

 

So, maybe Another 10-20 bucks won't make that much difference on a deer tag. But with all the other charges that are increased because it "won't make that much difference" we might be approaching a breaking point for the populous.

 

Okay, I ranted, and I vented, and I am sure a lot of others feel the pinch of government collections. Just have to wonder how long we will allow it to continue. Is the breaking point coming?

[Diamondbackaz]

AZ4life, Wetmule hit it right on the money, Tags are the cheapest part of the hunt. I dread the day that all my expensive equipment has to stay in the closet because I didn't get drawn. I personally believe that too many tags go to yahoos that don't use there tags because they had something else to do. Any real serious hunter can come up with the money for something that only happens a few days once a year. I have been an advocate of making the December hunt a premium hunt. heck I will pay more money to increase my odds at getting drawn.

[az4life]

Diamondbackaz

 

Indulge me on this: You posted,

I have been an advocate of making the December hunt a premium hunt. heck I will pay more money to increase my odds at getting drawn.

 

I think I understand your point, anyone who can afford to pay more money should have better odds? Taulman will sure be happy about that! I guess continuing with that logic, the more you pay, the better chance you should have? Opening up all the tags up to the highest bidder might be just around the corner! You might even be outbid! Anything you want can be bought I guess. We all saw that with the OJ trial. I just Don't know how a premium "preffered fee" will fit in with the AZGFD mandate that no one should have an unfair advantage (opportunity) for drawing resident or non resident, and I will extend it to wealthy, middle class or poor.

 

I definitely do agree! The tag is one of the cheapest parts of the hunting experience. AZ has been reasonable for residents and non for a long time. A measured increase is due but the measrement should not be using Taullman or Bill Gates finances. Maybe my point was lost in my ranting.

Too late for another REALLY long post. OOPS (did I just hear a collective sigh of relief?) Off to the bunker!

 

Later

[wetmule]

AZ4life,

People are not or have not been excluded from hunting in AZ because of the high costs of the permits - at least not deer & elk. For the last 50 years we've been paying for Hot Dogs & Strawberry Soda Pop and getting Filet Mignon & Dom Perrignon. You don't need Swarovski or Zeiss optics, 3 K custom rifles or 40 K trucks and 5 K + quads in order to go hunting. I have a 74 F-250 that costs me over $100 to fill it up, yet a deer permit in the finest mule deer habitat on the PLANET (AZ Strip) costs me $17.50. Does'nt wash with me. No I've never been drawn but not for a lack of trying. With around around 100 deer permits annually in the two 13 units by my calculations if 90 of those permits went to residents and 10 went to non-residents they make a grand total of approx. $ 3400.00 on those two hunts. I would imagine that amount would'nt even cover 1 months salary for one of the two WM's and a field supervisor that work in those areas. Permit fees need to go up and Way up IMO.

[az4life]

double post....

[az4life]

I do not expect the tag fees to cover the cost of managing the game hunts by units. The tag fee is a simple premium fee above the license fees paid. License fees account for much more of the AZGFD budget and pays the salaries of the Officers and other employees as well as the overhead and administration. the last year available was 2002-2003 but the data says the following (in part) made up the dept revenue. My #s rounded off for simplicity.

 

 

$20 Million - License Fees

$20 Million - Game & Fish Fund

$20 Million - Federal Funds

$ 5 Million - Tag Fees

$ 2 Million - Watercraft License

$10 Million - Heritage Fund

 

Yea yea I know, we are only talking "small potatoes" in the Scheme of Government finances, but someone once said, " 2 million here and 5 million there, pretty soon we are talking about real money!

 

After reviewing the #s quickly, it is impressive the AZGFD does so much with so little. Still I say a measured increase for all tag fees is warranted if the general licenses hold the line on price! But stick it to the Taulmans first.

[wetmule]

I realize license fees and other $$ sources pay for the bulk of G & F operations. I guess I'd like to see the hunts and the revenues raised from them be used to at least pay for itself and have some of the money raised go towards managing this states wildlife, which IMO, in some units they are doing a very poor job to put it nicely.

[Couesnut]

New truck that can't be trashed or scratched..... 40,000$

Quad to trash the environment, & everyones peace.....8,000$

Computer to bash & complain .....1,000$

DEER TAG ....Priceless

DH

[Couesi1]

Hey Gang,

Where else can you have the privilege to hunt 44 days in December and January(if you shoot a bow as poorly as I do) for whatever the new price of an archery tag and license totals for a resident? That doesn't even include the days during the fall hunts. Come on, I just went snow skiing one day with my daughter and dumped almost $200.00. My point is, it's still a bargain. The game department isn't doing the big money grab, they're trying to keep afloat, ....... just like the rest of us.

Couesi1

[Diamondbackaz]

az4life, I never mentioned auctioning of tags, here is two letters that I wrote during request for comments period from last spring, and from the uso issue. I hope that this will allow you to see where I am coming from.

Letter 1

To whom it may concern,

For the past several years, it has been getting more and more to difficult to get drawn for the 16 to 20 day December whitetail deer hunts while the 4 day October hunts are sometimes have left over permits. I usually get drawn for the 10 day November hunt as a second choice. It seems that there is a real discrepancy in these hunts as I am, or anyone else, is paying $22.50 to hunt any where from 4 days to 20 days depending on the season I get drawn for. I believe either equalizing the number of days in a season, or better yet, charge more for the longer seasons. I would be willing to pay 4 to 5 times as much ($90.00 to $110.00 in this case for this years December hunt) to hunt a longer season. I believe that by raising the fees on the longer seasons, the department can increase its revenue, especially on non-resident permits as they would have to pay four times as much. This should also make it easier for people who want to hunt longer seasons to get drawn. All of the "general deer" deer hunts listed in the regs are 10 day hunts with the exception of the whitetail hunts that have three different length seasons. It is time to change this!!.

 

I have had good luck with the November hunts too. However, it use to be a 100% chance of getting drawn for my area for November and it is now down to 80%. The October hunts still have a 100% chance of getting a tag. The December hunt has a 12% chance of getting drawn. And every year this number gets smaller. It use to be you could buy left over tags over the counter and the tag was good for any southern Arizona unit from the New Mexico border over to the Baboquivaris. I feel the October hunt is a crap shoot hunt as you only have one weekend to hunt and if the weather is so horrible the whole weekend and you can't hunt, well there is always next year. You still paid 22.50 not to be able to hunt. You can see this in the success rates for the various hunt seasons. The longer the season, the higher the success rate. I am only suggesting that I am willing to pay more money to have more time to hunt. And for the serious hunter who spends a lot of money and time for scouting and equipment, 22.50 is a drop in the bucket. I feel that going tag fee based on a per diem basis will make it easier to get a longer season

 

Letter 2 on USO issue

To whom it may concern,

The 10% cap only pertained to the Bull Elk and the Kaibab Mule deer hunts that most people would consider Premium hunts, or Trophy Hunts. I believe it is time to start charging more for the premium hunts. I think it's silly that a Bull tag is the same price as a cow tag, Kaibab hunts are only $15.00 more than the rest of the states Mule Deer units, and a 4 day whitetail hunt costs the same for a 15 day December hunt. I would be willing to pay a higher premium for a premium hunt, and also have the non-resident pay a non-resident premium for those hunts. I think this would also stand up in the courts. Otherwise, I would be willing to pay 5 times the current amount for a premium deer and elk hunt. Instead of paying the $22.50 ($19.50+$5.00) for a resident premium deer hunt; I would be willing to pay $102.50 ($97.50+$5.00) for a resident premium deer hunt. The non-resident would be charged $492.50 ($97.50X5+$5.00) for the same hunt using the current department formula using a multiple of five for the non-resident. And do the same for Bull Elk, which would be $362.5 for resident, and $1,835.00 for non-residents. These numbers are just examples for the purpose of this letter. I believe that raising the fees of resident hunters along with non-resident hunters, the courts will be less likely to rule the fees unreasonable for non-residents. Some people may say or consider that this is being unfair to the person on a limited budget like myself. However, the tag has always been the cheapest part of my hunt. My equipment including my rifle, scope, binoculars, jeep, and the gas to fill it gets expensive. It costs about $30.00 for a tank of gas for one day of pre season scouting. These tag costs are not out of line for a hunt that we plan all year long for, to hunt a season that lasts only 4 to 15 days. I believe that the department should also require money up front for the price of the permit as it once was. I am not a rich man as a public school teacher, but I can scrape up some more cash to hunt a premium hunt that only comes once a year. However, I believe that there will be fewer non-residents applying because of the higher non-resident fees. I believe these fees would be more in line of what other states are charging. High demand hunt permit tags should be put into a different category of low demand hunt permit tags. And people should pay up front.