GameHauler Report post Posted May 22, 2009 krp that great Yes guys there are Coues and Mulies in 22 I doubt thing will be worth a crap 2 years from now. The Department seems to want to make this easy access unit for the flatlanders to provide "opportunity". You have seen pictures of some good bucks taken here and for the most part they are very hard earned not just a weekend hunter but we all get lucky some times. If you want to put in for 22 now is your best chance to draw a tag and you maybe one of the 10% that may harvest. After a couple years of this BS they will cut tags back big time (I hope) If I do draw a tag this year you will not find me anywhere to stop by for a beer. krp, boy would I like to have you pack team along, way better looking than the butt heads I have had in camp before Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krp Report post Posted May 23, 2009 Everyone is responsable for picking and training their own pack team, can't help with that. Just my thoughts on 22 and units in the same circumstance. I hated seeing 22 and others move from the Dec WT system but it did. Without mandatory reporting G&F can makeup any numbers they want to add or subtract tags and remove archery hunts. They change the hunt structure every year, this has to be planned so a guy can't get a fix on what's really happening. 2005 Dec hunt 2006 Dec hunt, Nov hunt same time as Mulie hunt and same amount of days, 10. Family members/friends can put in 1st/2nd choice WT/mulie and still camp/hunt the same timeframe. Oh well, at least that's something. 2007 same as 2006 2008 Nov WT is shortened to 7 days, up the tags, only have 25 Dec rifle tags, mulie stays the same, 10 days. Delete the Dec archery hunt. 2009 Nov WT is now at an earlier time frame than mulie and they are both only 7 days. It doesn't matter how many tags are in an area, there are only so many deer that are close enough to the road systems to be available to 95% of the hunters. Adding 200 tags for instance will only add 5% more experienced hunters that will make a difference, 10 hunters, if that. This is what G&F has figured out. Overcrowding a unit, making major changes every year, shortening the hunt to one weekend only, has almost no effect on deer numbers, quality of hunt has no bearing on their decisions. There isn't an army of experienced, hardcore, kill a deer if they walk out the door, hunters out there wanting one of these tags. All they are adding is the least experienced of hunters. Most of these hunters will hunt from just a morning only to most of the first weekend. Not working on their skills, driving their quad, sitting in camp drinking beer most the day, complaining about the lack of deer seen as they drove around and maybe walked a 100 yds to look into a canyon for 1 min. Some will get back in a 1/2 mile or so and spend all morning in an area and up their success level. A smaller group will want to take it even farther and really apply themselves totally to the best of their ability. We can't do anything about the first group. The next two are why we should be on these sites, to help them. If someone shows interest in applying themselves, I'm willing to help in anyway including taking them to some of my spots to get them started in the right direction. Not everyone has a father, grandfather, uncle or friend that can help or share with their desire to hunt. Most of us here are 5%ers. When we offer a hand, we are trying to keep that 5% at that level and not let it drop to 3,2,1%. It would be nice to get it to 20%. Kent Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bobbyo Report post Posted May 23, 2009 I built up a collection of my own rocks to bring to sit on..24A is a bust now and 22 has always been a parking lot,23 ditto,thats why I said there is no SECRET spot contrary to what everyone thinks,Coues and Sheep you are right,if we all carpool we can have more money left over to buy other hunting gear like sea bass with lasers.. Awesome! Lets have a Coues Whitetail get together in unit 22. Archery only. I could bring 10 or 11 guys and sure we will car pool. Maybe Coues and Sheep or Game hauler can put us up. Thanks for the generous offer guys. Just give us your cell nunbers and we will call you when we are on our way. Promise not to eat too much can't guarantee about the drink though! When is opening day again? Bob PS. nlacost, You are doing a real solid. We need more of that spirit around here. Great deer. I didn't seem to get one of those color coordinated maps though. Everyone is responsable for picking and training their own pack team, can't help with that. We can't do anything about the first group. The next two are why we should be on these sites, to help them. If someone shows interest in applying themselves, I'm willing to help in anyway including taking them to some of my spots to get them started in the right direction. Not everyone has a father, grandfather, uncle or friend that can help or share with their desire to hunt. Most of us here are 5%ers. When we offer a hand, we are trying to keep that 5% at that level and not let it drop to 3,2,1%. It would be nice to get it to 20%. Kent Kent so you are saying you are going to pack in me and my carpool buddies? Just kidding Coues and Sheep have us covered. Really there is nothing wrong with the other 95% of hunters. Lets face it we are psychos. Many people would not consider it a good time to pack in (out of cell phone range) and glass seemingly lifeless hills for 12 hours a day. The 5% that call this fun might be the one's that require help . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
June Report post Posted May 23, 2009 I PROTEST!!!!! Ah, what am I exactly protesting... Oh yeah, I PROTEST!!!!! Come on down to 35. I usually camp next to the cemetery. Already have a plot there. just in case. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krp Report post Posted May 24, 2009 bobbyo, if you can get your carpool buddies out of the pickup bed and away from the beer coolers, I'm more than happy to show them some deer. But you'll probably have as much luck as I have getting any takers, lots of interest, just no takers. Kent Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DubTee Report post Posted May 24, 2009 Everyone is responsable for picking and training their own pack team, can't help with that. Just my thoughts on 22 and units in the same circumstance. I hated seeing 22 and others move from the Dec WT system but it did. Without mandatory reporting G&F can makeup any numbers they want to add or subtract tags and remove archery hunts. They change the hunt structure every year, this has to be planned so a guy can't get a fix on what's really happening. 2005 Dec hunt 2006 Dec hunt, Nov hunt same time as Mulie hunt and same amount of days, 10. Family members/friends can put in 1st/2nd choice WT/mulie and still camp/hunt the same timeframe. Oh well, at least that's something. 2007 same as 2006 2008 Nov WT is shortened to 7 days, up the tags, only have 25 Dec rifle tags, mulie stays the same, 10 days. Delete the Dec archery hunt. 2009 Nov WT is now at an earlier time frame than mulie and they are both only 7 days. It doesn't matter how many tags are in an area, there are only so many deer that are close enough to the road systems to be available to 95% of the hunters. Adding 200 tags for instance will only add 5% more experienced hunters that will make a difference, 10 hunters, if that. This is what G&F has figured out. Overcrowding a unit, making major changes every year, shortening the hunt to one weekend only, has almost no effect on deer numbers, quality of hunt has no bearing on their decisions. There isn't an army of experienced, hardcore, kill a deer if they walk out the door, hunters out there wanting one of these tags. All they are adding is the least experienced of hunters. Most of these hunters will hunt from just a morning only to most of the first weekend. Not working on their skills, driving their quad, sitting in camp drinking beer most the day, complaining about the lack of deer seen as they drove around and maybe walked a 100 yds to look into a canyon for 1 min. Some will get back in a 1/2 mile or so and spend all morning in an area and up their success level. A smaller group will want to take it even farther and really apply themselves totally to the best of their ability. We can't do anything about the first group. The next two are why we should be on these sites, to help them. If someone shows interest in applying themselves, I'm willing to help in anyway including taking them to some of my spots to get them started in the right direction. Not everyone has a father, grandfather, uncle or friend that can help or share with their desire to hunt. Most of us here are 5%ers. When we offer a hand, we are trying to keep that 5% at that level and not let it drop to 3,2,1%. It would be nice to get it to 20%. Kent Good post. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bobbyo Report post Posted May 24, 2009 bobbyo, if you can get your carpool buddies out of the pickup bed and away from the beer coolers, I'm more than happy to show them some deer. But you'll probably have as much luck as I have getting any takers, lots of interest, just no takers. Kent Kent I would love to pack in with you. I have had the good fortune to hunt Bulls twice in unit 22 and the Rim area has to be one of the most beautiful in the world. Trouble is although i have spent maybe 10 days on the ground in the unit I did not see many Whitetail! The only Buck i saw was a world class Mule. The only Coues was a couple does, the Fan Tail variety. For the life of me I can't figure out why there is so many tags issued or why they are so desirable in that unit. Maybe the reason is that everyone I know in Payson has an impressive collection of 100 inch deer. No I think I will pass on 22. I am not happy unless I come back from a hunt looking like I had a fight with 20 house cats. For me, cactus and cat claw have to be on the agenda. I do like your generosity though and if you ever get skunked on getting a tag I could possibly point you and your pack train in the right direction if you get a left over tag down south. Bob Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
elkaholic Report post Posted May 24, 2009 hello - if you are talking coues hunting in 22 - why think they are limited to the rim area - 4 peaks is loaded-- mt. Ord is loaded - the Mazatzals is probably one of the underated areas for monters coues - If you are passing on 22 from what you seen while elk hunting on the rim - - oh well - - If you want a true wilderness experience try packing into the Mazatzals - get into the limestone hills south of the east verde and you are in country few have ever been. I've heard tales of guys doing the mule trains and having to spend nights fighting off mountain lions and bears - after 3 nights of no sleep they came out! - you want a cat fight - brave the back side of the Mazatzals !! I was takin coues off mt. ord back in the 80's - Oh well just my .02cents-- gary Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krp Report post Posted May 24, 2009 Gary, Hey you just gave away every secret spot in 22........... well you forgot 3bar. Bob, I will go anytime, even if you want to just go out and check some areas out to see if you're interested in hunting them. I hunt the Mazatzals, don't worry, you'll get scatched up plenty. I used to strictly hunt down south but once my wife became interested in hunting herself, she wasn't too comfortable hiking into some high saddles and having IA trash everywhere. I had hunted these same remote saddles before but had never seen evidence of IA's before this, only down low. More general thoughts. 22 has some big bucks for sure but if that's the #1 reason a person picks a unit, the units down south have a bigger percentage of deer and big bucks. The first WT I ever killed was the early 80's when it was any antlered deer. Unit 22, less than 20 miles as the crow flies from Mesa, 2000 ft elevation. Just to show their range even in the old days. Backpack hunting isn't about big bucks as much as about the trip. First you have to scout the country and most importantly the water sources. Can it support you for an extended period of time. Is there at least a possibility of taking a mature animal. Are there secondary water sources close just in case. Are you willing to hunt whatever animals happen to be in your range once you commit to an area. Are you willing to go home empty if you just couldn't connect on 'the' buck, because it isn't worth packing a meat buck out that far, and still be more than pleased with the trip. Are you willing to be totally isolated, without the possiblity of even an occasional hunter coming through in case of an emergency. Is it wierd that you can see your footprints from previous scouting trips for months but you have never, in many years, seen another's footprint. Lately I've hunted the wilderness in 24B and the same applies. I haven't even scratched the surface of unhunted country in these units. Kent Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nlacost Report post Posted May 24, 2009 Steelheads and I hope to have a great hunt,its the idea of getting out there,and if you can share the experience,thats even better.Yes some units are hunted more than others,but we will do the packing thing like I have in the past and see some great animals and have fun doing it!!If hiking up mountains and sweating and cussing is what we all call fun,but in the end if Steelheads gains some knowledge and bags a trophy,then its all worth it.Lets just help each other out,I am sure none of us ever got any instruction or mentoring from our fathers,mothers,or friends right,we all woke up and were born Coues hunters?..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nlacost Report post Posted May 24, 2009 by the way,here was my first Coues taken in 2004 when I moved here, taken in unit 22.. 35 yard archery shot...I love that place,and unit 6A,and unit..awesome hunt and I didnt know anyone to go out hunting with..but it was still a blast!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krp Report post Posted May 24, 2009 nlacost, you're doing it right in all ways. Kent Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nlacost Report post Posted May 24, 2009 krp,and everyone thanks and hope we can do some story and pic swapping at the Marshall Lake get together!! I really want to see everyones trophies,its such a terrible thing to see awesome deer in the downtime of the season right?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
elkaholic Report post Posted May 24, 2009 hello - krp- just looking at any map and reading the 3 main mt. ranges isn't giving away too many secrets - . you and I both know and probably have secret little spots that always seem to produce bucks. some may be easy to get to others - not so easy - In my younger days it was drive to the top of mt. ord get dropped off and walk a ridge to the bottom. Sometimes you pick the wrong one - never twice mine you- something that seemed easy looking turned into a disaster. now I prefer the bottom ridges along the creek bottoms ! Packing into any wilderness is a unique experience to say the least - taking everything to sustain yourself is not as hard as trying to figure out what to do - now if you have to contend with a rookie who just doesn't believe its that hard a task to accomplish! Hat's off - good luck - check his pack before you go - - Gary Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krp Report post Posted May 24, 2009 Gary, that's exactly right, there's too much country out there to be giving away secrets by saying X deer was killed in X unit or even X mountain range. There are always big deer in every unit and mt range, that's not a secret either and the one in the pic is not there anymore. I understand the frustration of more tags in a unit when you are glassing areas that are easily accessable, it's more of a race to the deer than a hunt. I just decided to get out of that rat race, won't go back. I could post a pic of google earth to some of my spots, I still wouldn't see anyone there. The trophy glassers aren't going to invest/commit all their time into scouting/hunting an area that may or may not produce the biggest buck and the meat hunters will not pack an animal out that far. There may be others that also just want to hunt and explore new country, if they happen to come into where I am, more power to them. I go for the adventure and always want to see what's over the next ridge. Kent Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
