Rifle 10

[200"mulie]

My buddy has a unit 10 rifle hunt this year . . . I have never been up that far north. What can i expect? Is there a lot of water typically (depending on rain) Should we have our eyes on more than one buck? Will cams work at fence crossings (i know they dont jump they rather go under)?? A lot of antelope throughout the unit? .... any help would be appreciated. We are going out beginning July to scout.

 

200mulie

[codyhuntsaz]

out of my own curiosity how many points did your friend have when he drew this tag?? i have 18 points and am hoping im getting close to drawing that tag.

[azstroops]

Good tag! Good bucks!

[MattMan]

out of my own curiosity how many points did your friend have when he drew this tag?? i have 18 points and am hoping im getting close to drawing that tag.

 

My wife and I both drew unit 10 rifle tags this year with 11 points.

 

I don't personally know anyone else who's drawn a 10 tag since the 90s with less than 20 points...

[DesertBull]

Unit 10 is huge with a lot of private land, much of it posted.

There are a lot of antelope, but many will be on private land. Many will be in thicker J/P areas where you won't see them unless you get out (and UP) and glass the pockets.

 

Never had much luck with cams and goats. Too many cattle in most places and if you put it on a water tank....kiss it goodbye before you leave it.

 

Unit 10 MUST be scouted if you are looking for a big'un.

[200"mulie]

ty for info...i know never to put cams on water unless its on private land (yourown) sounds like a lot of lopes but you'll have to work at em to get a good one. My buddy had 9 or 10 points but put in with 2 other people that i don't know what there bp situation was..... My buddy was dumb founded when the tag came in the mail.... "we got drawn!!???...your not suppose to get drawn!"....anyway thanks again hopefully we can make it up there july and august

[robertramsey61]

I have 19 points and still waiting for that unit 10 tag, every year I get a little closer...

[codyhuntsaz]

so that makes 5 people atleast, just in this thread with less bonus points than myself and robert and many others that drew this coveted tag. and im sure there are many more out there. that being said i CANT STAND the bonus point system. it NEEDS to be fixed. just venting....take it for what its worth.

[elk77hunter]

My buddy just started hunting last year....no points....got drawn unit 10 first try rifle. I told him not to tell anyone, because they might kill him from being so mad.

[MattMan]

Nothing needs to be fixed. You want a primo tag, so do 10,000 other applicants. It's called REALITY. AZ's system is the best balance to loyal seasoned hunters as well as attracting those that are fairly new.

 

A wait period is strictly punitive in nature, removing the 70 successful applicants from the pool. Great, so now there's only 9,930 applicants. THAT sure doesn't increase your odds.

 

A preference point system would require you wait just as long as the bonus pass of the current draw, with NO chance of drawing until you build enough points. Doesn't change much, and means my son would have to start applying now and maybe NEVER catch the curve. We don't apply to Colorado for this reason... a preference point system seriously discourages those new to hunting, and doesn't do much to build a future generation of hunters. Then when you DO draw, you start over. So once you get your tag, your next one will be from a wheel chair with an oxygen bottle. NO chance of drawing again until you build the points. IT SUCKS.

 

The bonus system currently in place allows for you to build max points for a primo tag, and eventually be GUARANTEED your first choice in the 20% pass, and still allows you to have a chance of drawing a tag on any given year. No other system combines these two traits. There are more applicants than tags in AZ... PERIOD. Especially for primo hunts... Suck it up and deal with it.

 

If you choose to apply for hunts with 0.1% draw odds, you're not going to get drawn a lot. Read and understand the draw system and use it to your advantage. If you do, you can hunt every year, if you're not dead set on a trophy tag.

[TAM]

I was just in 10 yesterday with my family shooting prarie dogs and we saw about 19 antelope. One was a pretty nice buck. This is a huge unit and there are plenty of antelope but in my opinion they are very spread out! You can find antelope almost anywhere. As others have pointed out this unit will require plenty of scouting. Good luck!

[2 Full Curls]

I would like to see the BP system square the points first (something along the lines of Nevada)...

[hesbinrubn]

Mulie if you want you can pm me for a little info. I had the tag last year as well as my father. A few things to expect: If it rains hard, most of the roads can get very soupy and somewhat challenging. Just go up and scout the most you can. Have a quite a few back up plans. To tell you the truth I was somewhat dissapointed with the hunt overall last year for different reasons. It is a good hunt though. My advise is take care of your body the best you can (hydration, food, feet) I would highly advise that you hunt sun up to sun down. I noticed people hunt the morning and then don't hunt till late afternoon. Do not do that. You will be able to kill bucks during the mid day because many people will "put them to bed" and come back after lunch expecting them to still be there, unless you shoot em. The bucks will still be going crazy in the middle of the day. If your going for the whole hunt and using coolers use a combination of dry ice and block ice. You cannot bring enough ice to keep meat cool. Anyway we both killed bucks and had a blast. If you want more info let me know. One more thing about the draw..... First time I put in for antelope was 2002 for 19B and got drawn. 2010 Got drawn for unit 10 with my father, he and I both had ten bp. I have drawn 12 turkey tags im 25 years old and started putting in when I was 16. Anyways I don't pay attention to the whole bp bull, guys put in for 30 years and never get drawn, people draw the tag he is trying to get with 5 bp. Guys draw 13b deer tags with 8 points, get 9 archery bull tags back to back, guys get archery antelope tags 3 years in a row. My point is if you get the tag with 19 bp congrats, if not don't be so suprised, I could be wrong but I thought it was a lottery draw type system. "The draw is crazy ...... so get crazy with the draw" think about it.

[Tines]

Nothing needs to be fixed. You want a primo tag, so do 10,000 other applicants. It's called REALITY. AZ's system is the best balance to loyal seasoned hunters as well as attracting those that are fairly new.

 

A wait period is strictly punitive in nature, removing the 70 successful applicants from the pool. Great, so now there's only 9,930 applicants. THAT sure doesn't increase your odds.

 

A preference point system would require you wait just as long as the bonus pass of the current draw, with NO chance of drawing until you build enough points. Doesn't change much, and means my son would have to start applying now and maybe NEVER catch the curve. We don't apply to Colorado for this reason... a preference point system seriously discourages those new to hunting, and doesn't do much to build a future generation of hunters. Then when you DO draw, you start over. So once you get your tag, your next one will be from a wheel chair with an oxygen bottle. NO chance of drawing again until you build the points. IT SUCKS.

 

The bonus system currently in place allows for you to build max points for a primo tag, and eventually be GUARANTEED your first choice in the 20% pass, and still allows you to have a chance of drawing a tag on any given year. No other system combines these two traits. There are more applicants than tags in AZ... PERIOD. Especially for primo hunts... Suck it up and deal with it.

 

If you choose to apply for hunts with 0.1% draw odds, you're not going to get drawn a lot. Read and understand the draw system and use it to your advantage. If you do, you can hunt every year, if you're not dead set on a trophy tag.

 

Not to hijack the thread but after reading this, it got me thinking. Uh oh!

 

First off, to the original poster, I hope you find some bucks and shoot a good one. I'm sure you'll do great with this tag!

 

Some friends and I go round and round about this also. IMO (and it's not worth much but I'll share it anyway), I'd like to see a 3yr waiting period accompanied with the BP system.

 

I noticed that you and your wife drew the tag with 10 points this year. Nice to hear that you'll be hunting with her! Way cool! I'm just wondering if you like the current system because you obviously benefited from it? Most people who like the current system are those who benefit from it regularly. When I say "most", I don't mean all. Myself, for example, I've benefited from it with coues deer tags. I've been fortunate to draw a few december tags over the past 8 seasons. But, even then, I'd much rather see someone else enjoy that hunt instead of myself who went the year before. That's the honest truth. Then again, 1 archery cow tag in 17 yrs of applying is hard to swallow for me. I know, "waahhh!!!" Good thing I'm young.

 

When I suggest a waiting period, I would recommend a waiting period after a "premium tag" is drawn. Most of us know what those are (many being antlered or horned species during the rut). I'd be a proponent of allowing successful applicants to still apply the following year, just not the premium permits (i.e. antelope, sheep, bull elk in the rut, deer in the rut, etc...).

 

I think differently about the new hunter/tagholder or recruiting new hunters. This will actually give them a BETTER chance of drawing a premium tag for their first tag. Just means they have to wait a couple of years for THAT tag again. But how cool is it that they can still apply for "lesser" hunts or BP's while waiting?!?!

 

Say a new guy draws an ERB (early rifle bull) tag with 1 BP. He hunts and kills a big bull. He probably had the most amazing experience (hunting wise) of his life during that hunt and can't wait to do it again. So now you tell him he can't apply for THAT hunt next year but he can apply for any cow tag (even during the rut, I might add) or a late rifle bull tag. I'll bet you anything that it's gonna be hard to come down from the clouds from the year before and all that matters is "I gotta get back into the field!". So he'll more than likely apply for a late rifle bull tag. Or at the very least, he's going to apply for a BP to increase his chances in a couple of years if he CHOOSES to wait. So either way, G&F get's their application fee. Because lets face it, permit numbers don't vary by much year to year so those funds stay constant.

 

Like you mentioned, your odds aren't increased by much, but they do, none-the-less. And it gets better and better the next year! More so than strictly playing the BP game, anyway.

 

Last time I checked there were about 6,000 1st and 2nd choice apps for this hunt. Crazy! Now, for arguments sake, lets say nobody new applies for this hunt the following year. You've now only got 5,940 applying for it. Drop in the bucket, I know. But the following year it's 60 more. So now it's 5,880. Still, stupid small odds. The following, 5,820. Theoretically, it reduces 180 applicants from this point on with a 3 year waiting period. But the entire time, those not drawn are accruing BP's. I realize this is minute, but it does make sense. Unless my math is wrong and I'll be the first to tell you that I'm no math whiz! In the mean time, I'll suck it up and deal with it I guess.

 

Now let's look at those applying for THIS permit. I'll go out on a limb and say that the majority of those know exactly what this tag is all about. Considering that, you're probably dealing with a group of applicants that are willing to wait 3 more years to draw that permit again (all the while collecting BP's). I don't know, that's just my guess, anyway.

 

Now onto "easier" premium tags to draw. Let's go with archery bull or Dec wt. Some of those hunts have similar draw odds to each other. So theoretically, it should increase your chances even MORE with these when it's all said and done.

 

As far as discouraging future generations because of a waiting period. This is a touchy subject with me. As I LOVE to help kids take animals they otherwise wouldn't have a chance at IF IT ENCOURAGES THEM TO STICK WITH IT!

 

Many on this site know Lance. I've hunted with him for almost 10 years now. I have a great respect for him (although we disagree on THIS discussion, I might add! HA!). Lance raised his kids to enjoy the outdoors and appreciate the opportunity to hunt. Which means from the beginning he applied them for the easiest permits to draw. He made it a point to teach them at a young age that it's not about shooting the biggest, it should ALWAYS be about just being out there. I've never been around such appreciative youth hunters than his kids. They are as hardcore as they come. They take big game animals year after year and are freakishly good at it. They're flat out "killers"! But here's the best part, they can now do it without their dad and are more successful than many adults I know. IMO, it's because they were taught the right way from the beginning.

 

Why is this relevant? Because I'm suggesting that maybe we should re-think what we might be instilling in the future generations of hunters. Last time I checked, Colorado has OTC elk tags so why does the preference point system discourage you (or at least your children) from applying? What the heck is so wrong with having your kids shoot a cow elk or a raghorn bull?? And are we that naive to believe that some 15 yr old who shoots B&C critters year after year indicates that he's THAT much more of a hunter than Joe the plumbers son who shoots "immature" animals year after year? We're country, but not THAT country. I think its easy to get caught up in the success of our kids because its a reflection of us. Subconsciously it just might have nothing to do with them. We need to be careful that it's not our egos at the forefront.

 

As a side note, I'm not suggesting we go to a preference point system either. I don't want that for reasons even you touched upon.

 

What's so wrong with teaching kids that if they draw a premium tag, they have to wait a couple of years to draw THAT tag again? We've got EVERYTHING at our fingertips these days that it's getting out of control. It's getting harder and harder to "wait" for anything. My wife and I struggle everyday with the concept of teaching our kids patience. I made jello today but it wasn't the instant kind and they gave me this funny look like "huh, why do we have to wait 4hrs??" Too often, when their picture is taken, they say "let me see, let me see!!" Not their fault with these fancy new cameras and everything but once again, whether it's waiting for food, photo "processing" or feeling entitled to another premium bull tag, its becoming absolutely ridiculous. If we're having to explain to our 11 yr old that they need to wait a couple of years to go hunting, maybe we ought to reconsider the hunts or states we're applying them for (obviously with 1 season species there's no way around that).

 

Now lets be realistic, I don't know anyone who is going to have their child pass on some 340 bull standing next to a raghorn to "teach him a lesson". If that's what some of you are getting out of this, you missed my point. I'm only suggesting that we take a step back and maybe consider raising the future generations how we were raised and those before us. And I use the term "we" loosely as I'm still pretty young. I can't wait for my kids to be old enough to hunt! I feel sorry for the first spike we glass up! My oldest son tells me every day "Dad, I want to be a firefighter and a hunter." Should make any father happy. The hunter part that is. Who'd want their child to be a firefighter?? That was a joke, btw..

 

Yes, there is much more demand than there is supply in AZ. Which is even MORE of a reason to teach all sportsman (even grown ups and ESPECIALLY kids) the concept of "sorry, you're just gonna have to wait your turn (if you want THAT tag, once again)". I realize that its even difficult for many of them to accept it but hey, life not being "fair" goes both ways in this.

 

Like implied in my post, I totally agree that if you read and understand the current system, one CAN go hunting every year. I'll never support a system that requires one to sit on the sidelines for a couple of years before they can hunt again. AZ has lots of opportunities that many other states don't. And chances at trophy class animals more so than many other states to boot! I love this state because of that. I drew a late November wt tag this year. Would I rather have a December tag? Of course. But I've got a dang good chance of finding a buck just as good during this hunt so I'll take it as opposed to waiting.

 

One more thing. A waiting period would also do away with those who seek out "BP buddies" year after year. It's no secret that there are hunters out there who go as far as applying with total strangers because the others might have "max BP's" or close to it. In turn, they'll do all of the scouting or at least "guide" their newly acquired "friend" during the hunt. Maybe the "bp buddy" is "guided" to a giant and he shoots it. He got a great deal out of it, right? I say yes. Call it whining, or "life is not fair", or whatever. Just saying it rubs me the wrong way that the "guide" drew his 10th premium bull tag in 12 yrs. Maybe I'm bitter that I don't have any "BP buddies"?? Ha!

 

The best one is those who can afford to apply their entire family members, even if they don't hunt. Then use them as their "BP buddy" during application time. Don't hate the player, hate the game, right? Yes, I agree. Once again, I don't blame anyone who can take advantage of the current system. And I don't hate the wealthy because they can afford to take advantage of it. But let's face it, those who fall into those categories are the ones who are "hardcore" enough that an application for at least a BP is gonna be sent in, year after year anyway.

 

I realized after re-reading this that it probably should be an entirely new thread. Sorry, just had some thoughts and kept writing... I apologize for being so long winded. It's way past my bedtime.....

[SirRoyal]

Tines: I like what you had to say !