Outdoor Writer Report post Posted January 8, 2008 I started a new thread with this topic here after researching the law pertaining to the NR/outfitter quota for the thread in the Hunting in New Mexico section. We've had some discussion here about what might become of baiting game other than bear in AZ. Below are some excerpts from NM's game laws/regulations that are ALREADY in effect. -TONY TITLE 19 NATURAL RESOURCES AND WILDLIFE CHAPTER 31 HUNTING AND FISHING PART 10 HUNTING AND FISHING-MANNER AND METHOD OF TAKING 19.31.10.7 DEFINITIONS: Q. "Baiting" shall mean the placing, exposing, depositing, distributing, or scattering of any salt, grain, scent or other feed on or over areas where hunters are attempting to take protected game mammals or game birds. ***** TITLE 19 NATURAL RESOURCES AND WILDLIFE CHAPTER 31 HUNTING AND FISHING PART 14 ELK 19.31.14.7 DEFINITIONS: D. “Baiting” shall mean the placing, exposing, depositing, distributing, or scattering of any salt, grain, scent or other feed on or over areas where hunters are attempting to take elk. 19.31.14.10 ELK MANNER AND METHOD REQUIREMENTS AND RESTRICTIONS: G. Use of baits or scents: It shall be unlawful for anyone to take or attempt to take any elk by use of baits or scents as defined in 19.31.10.7 NMAC. Scent masking agents on one's person are allowed. ***** TITLE 19 NATURAL RESOURCES AND WILDLIFE CHAPTER 31 HUNTING AND FISHING PART 13 DEER 19.31.13.7 DEFINITIONS: B. “Baiting” shall mean the placing, exposing, depositing, distributing, or scattering of any salt, grain, scent or other feed on or over areas where hunters are attempting to take deer. 19.31.13.10 DEER MANNER AND METHOD REQUIREMENTS AND RESTRICTIONS: G. Use of baits or scents: It shall be unlawful for anyone to take or attempt to take any deer by use of baits or scents as defined in 19.31.10.7 NMAC. Scent masking agents on one's person are allowed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin Report post Posted January 8, 2008 Tony, The baiting laws in New Mexico have been in effect for many years but compliance and enforcement are pretty low. There are places in both unit 23 (especially the Burro's) and 24 that look like salt mines, many of them with trailcams and treestands adorning nearby trees. Here, at least, it's not an ethical question it's a matter of breaking the law. Kevin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Outdoor Writer Report post Posted January 9, 2008 Kev, Yeah, I knew they had been around for a while, but I thought some of the wording was interesting, especially the inclusion of "scent" in the statute. Here, it's more like before MLB outlawed steroids and HGH. -TONY Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Red Rabbit Report post Posted January 9, 2008 So no urine on a mock scrape for deer, if there is no use of scent allowed. Suppose if someone used the tarsal glands cut from a previous buck, he's in violation. No elk urine spray misters. But a cow in heat urine wafer pinned to a person's cap could be an allowable cover scent. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DesertBull Report post Posted January 9, 2008 Stupid Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
huntswnm Report post Posted January 9, 2008 Tony, I am with you on the mention of scents in the law. I bet not many people here in NM know that "scents" are included. So yes, putting scents in a mock scrape, or real one for that matter, and hunting over it is illegal here. However using the same exact scent, but on yourself as a "cover" scent is ok. Wierd if you ask me. The tarsal gland.......OK as long as you are carrying with you, second you hang it from a tree and watch it....illegal! What about if someone is sitting over a "natural" salt lick? Natural meaning that more than likely some other guy made it. Maybe it is a true natural area that holds natural minerals the deer need. No one put them there, can someone still sit there? The way I read the statute the only person breaking the law is the one who puts out the salt, feed, scent, etc. not necessarily anyone else who comes along years down the road. I don't know, I think in some ways the laws make sense, but can also be confusing if you start breaking it down. One other quick point, if you look at the regulations, page 9 I believe, it says it is illegal to: "Take or attempt to take game mammals or game birds over ground baited with any material or scent distributed there to entice the animals, except quail or turkey on private land. Scent-masking agents may be used on one's person, but not to attract big game." So what is the deal with turkey? They are considered big game in NM, and apparantly as long as you "bait" them on private land it is OK!?!? I don't get it. Jeff Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Redbeard Report post Posted January 9, 2008 It is just dumb but seeing as how AZGFD wants to get hunter success as low as possible I would expect it to happen here soon. There is a huge difference between scents and a pile of dead carp or jelly doughnuts. Salt is somewhere in between I think. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Outdoor Writer Report post Posted January 9, 2008 Doug, The scent thing is certainly interesting, and I would agree that it basically bans the stuff mentioned here. Also, I'm not too sure tarsal glands or cow urine on one's self would quailfy as a "scent masking AGENT." Me thinks what they had in mind were those types of masking agents sold by Atsko , Hunter's Specialties, etc. that supposedly eliminate (mask) human scent by using a biochemical reaction with bacteria. That's a lot different than trying to use pee to cover human scent. Jeff, I have no doubt you are correct about everyone knowing what the law is in NM. That's one reason I started this thread. It might just save some folks -- as least those who care -- a citation. -TONY Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Non-Typical Solutions Report post Posted January 9, 2008 How about hunting over dead horses...that obviously fell into an illegal catagory. Was it killing the horses that was illegal, was it killing the bears that was illegal, both??? My boys and I were out looking for coyotes a couple of days ago, did a couple of stands, driving along to our next stand when we see three coyotes bust out, maybe 300-400 yards away from us. The only reason really that we saw them is my 10 year old asked if he could shoot at a crow(illegal??).....and we noticed there was about 30 crow out there, exactly the same spot the coyotes had busted out from. I decided we needed to go take a look, I had a hunch there was a dead cow over there......but low and behold, two dead horses....looked like the rancher had drug them out there, bone yard type of deal.........so if I go shoot coyotes off the dead horses that are laying out there.....is that illegal? I didn't put them there, I didn't shoot the horses........just found a spot that I could get a bonus dog........ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Red Rabbit Report post Posted January 9, 2008 Redneck, That reminded me of a bear hunt on the San Carlos. Cowboys had a horse gored during the roundup and had to shoot the horse. We sat over the dead horse waiting for a bear, which did come and eat out the anus area when we went back to camp for lunch. The game officer wondered if we had shot the horse for bait, but cleared us after he talked with the cowboys. There seemed to be lots of dead cattle on the rez to attract bear. Also, we did have a bear raid our peach pies in camp while we were out hunting. Doug~RR Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Outdoor Writer Report post Posted January 9, 2008 How about hunting over dead horses...that obviously fell into an illegal catagory. Was it killing the horses that was illegal, was it killing the bears that was illegal, both??? If you're talking about the case here in AZ, it involved both shooting the stray horses and then putting them out as bait to kill bears, which in itself is illegal. Jelly donuts and honey aren't the only baits bears like. As for finding something dead per chance, the NM law states: "....placing, exposing, depositing, distributing, or scattering." So if any part of that in regards to the dead carcass applies, it's illegal. Obviously, both the game warden and perhaps a judge will ultimately decide the legality of such a citation. So the hunter will be the one who must decide whether to put that decision in their hands. My now departed grandfather was my hunting partner for 15 years here in AZ. He hunted with me until he was into his late 80s and died at 94. During that time he always told me and my kids when they were growing up: “Obey the law and do only what you feel is right. If there's a doubt, don't do it.” I still abide by his wisdom and even take it a bit beyond the legal aspects as far as the, "If there's a doubt, don't do it." -TONY Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Non-Typical Solutions Report post Posted January 9, 2008 As a kid growing up, my dads pigfarm had of course, pigs that died every day. We had the "rose garden" where we took all of the dead pigs every day. That was one of the most productive "bait" stands in the country, morning, noon and evening you could go out there and have the chance of catching a bonus dog out there getting a free meal. Never thought twice about it........probably still wouldn't, but I guess technically illegal.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Outdoor Writer Report post Posted January 9, 2008 Never thought twice about it........probably still wouldn't, but I guess technically illegal.... Perhaps, but perhaps not -- at least in the case of coyotes. Again, quoting from the NM statute: "...where hunters are attempting to take protected game mammals or game birds." The distinction should be obvious. -TONY Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Non-Typical Solutions Report post Posted January 9, 2008 Tony, That is why I love hunting coyote......the flea bitten varmint..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
