Survey Cards

[Outdoor Writer]

Here's some of the stats on the survey cards for the 2007 deer seasons. It's too bad more hunters fail to cooperate. If they did, the harvest stats would be a LOT more accurate. Of course, if they lie they might as well not return the cards. -TONY

 

Number mailed------- 42543

 

Number returned ----- 19177

 

Return rate------------ 45.1%

 

Previous year's rate---44.2%

[DCMHunter]

Of the 45% that were returned how many reported harvesting an animal?

 

What was the mandetory harvest reported by the archery hunters?

 

Are there any unit specific information available?

 

With 700 tag decrease in December Whitetail tags, They should show there reasoning other then because they can. All of the units that were on the list to go to an archery draw are going that way. It would be nice for the department to be upfront with their information and post the numbers in the way that they are using them.

 

When was the hunt recommendations posted? The first public meeting is today in Pinetop. Has anyone had a good chance to look at them and going to make the meeting tonight for comments?

 

DCM

[Outdoor Writer]

I have all the harvest stats for the gun, ML and Junior hunts, including the breakdown of survey cards by unit, but nothing for the archery hunts. That report won't be done until at least mid-May because they weren't draw hunts. So the department has to wait for the license vendors to send in their 2007 sales reports, etc.

 

I do have both general and archery elk reports, as well. -TONY

[Snapshot]

Less than 50% return rate is not very good. I have sent my card in faithfully for more years then I can remember. They should make it mandatory like New Mexico, if you don't complete the online hunter survey you will not be eligible for the next draw.

[Coues 'n' Sheep]

I used to fill out those cards and make my kids and wife fill them out every year.... As of 2007 I am NEVER filling out another one.... and I encourage every hunter that I talk to not to fill them out. By filling them out all we are doing is helping the AZGF compile their inaccurate data.... Screw that! If No one turns them in then maybe they will make some changes. As long as they use manditory check-in data against a vollunteer card return data we will never have real numbers and archery hunts/hunters will pay the price. They all go in the Round File at my house.... I'm done.

 

CnS

[DesertBull]

They should have mandatory check in for everything, just like they do for bear, archery deer, etc

[Outdoor Writer]

Over the last few years, I've gone round and round with a couple folks at G&F over the survey cards. In fact, I had such a discussion just two days ago.

 

Anyone who has read the How To HunT Coues Deer book would have seen how I addressed it with this excerpt:

 

LOTTERY PERMITS

 

All firearms hunters must go through a computer lottery to obtain

a deer hunting permit for Arizona and for certain units in New

Mexico. A bowhunter may purchase a tag over the counter, however.

 

If you’re a nonresident or not familiar with the hunting units

and decide to apply for a draw permit for a do-it-yourself hunt in

either of these states, do some research. Try to contact other hunters,

guides or even the game departments for information and advice.

Also study the hunt statistics from prior years, but consider

the success rates and actual harvest with some skepticism because

the figures are usually extrapolated from mail-in survey cards. The

return rate of these cards for almost every whitetail hunt in Arizona

averages between 25 and 45 percent.

 

A real-time example from the 2002 season shows a harvest of

42 deer and a success rate of 42 percent for the December hunt in

unit 36B, where 100 permits were issued. Only 43 hunters returned

the cards. That means 18 of the 43 reported a deer kill, but with

such a small sampling, the figures could be way off. Perhaps three-quarters

of the hunters who didn’t send the cards back were unsuccessful,

or it could be the other way around. So just use the stats as

reference points to compare one unit with another.

 

The argument they often use is that the survey cards are no different than the types of polls conducted by phone, etc. where the margin of error is generally within 4-5 percentage points. IOW, the cards that ARE returned show the general trend for those that do not get returned. And they are probably correct in that IF the sampling is fairly large -- i.e. in units with a fairly large number of permits. Where the problem comes is in those units with fewer permits, thus a too small a sampling to accurately reflect a trend. -TONY

[Red Rabbit]

Are the successful hunters the ones more apt to return the cards?

Do successful hunters lie about the kill and say NO, so that the published success rate will be lower and will subsequently draw less competition?

Are hunters lying about wounding and not recovering game?

Has a survey been done to all hunters drawn for a hunt to see how accurate an extrapolation would be?

[DesertBull]

There is even more incentive to be untruthful now. A achery deer hunter might be tempted to say they killed their deer in a different unit, in an effort to try and keep their archery hunt in their favorite unit from going away or going to a draw.

[Outdoor Writer]

Are the successful hunters the ones more apt to return the cards?

 

No, I don't think so. At least the stats I have don't indicate that. Just look at the example from the book; only 18 of 43 who returned the cards tagged a deer.

 

Do successful hunters lie about the kill and say NO, so that the published success rate will be lower and will subsequently draw less competition?

 

We can only speculate on that. That said, I'm sure SOME hunters are less than honest, and that's unfortunate. But the only way to prevent it would be to make a PHYSICAL check mandatory every time someone goes afield, whether successful or not. That's the way the Kaibab hunts used to be years ago. BUT...you ain't gonna see that happen because it takes too much manpower to have check stations spread all over the state during all of the various deer seasons.

 

Are hunters lying about wounding and not recovering game?

 

See above in regards to speculation. The recent stats I have do have the reported wounding figures included. My GUESS is they are very much under the actual rates.

 

Has a survey been done to all hunters drawn for a hunt to see how accurate an extrapolation would be?

 

Not sure what you mean here by a "survey." In the 2007 report, surveys cards went to EVERY hunter in many units. But again, the returns do not number the same as mailed. If you mean a follow-up phone survey or such, I doubt it. -TONY

[Outdoor Writer]

There is even more incentive to be untruthful now. A achery deer hunter might be tempted to say they killed their deer in a different unit, in an effort to try and keep their archery hunt in their favorite unit from going away or going to a draw.

 

Yeah, there ya go. Then folks can bitch even more about how badly G&F manages the resource

 

Wouldn't it be something if a guy kills a buck and posts the photos here. Then he goes about being "untruthful" on the survey card, and G&F happens to match up the two. Or perhaps they compare taxidermists' reports to survey cards? I wonder if they would have any legal recourse where something like falsifying information would kick in??

 

BTW, "untruthful" is like lying, no? But it's only a "little white lie." -TONY

[Red Rabbit]

Wouldn't it be something if a guy kills a buck and posts the photos here. Then goes about being "untruthful" on the survey card, and G&F happens to match up the two. Or perhaps they compare taxidermists' reports to survey cards? I wonder if they would have any legal recourse where something like falsifying information would kick in??

 

TONY

 

I believe they already do use the internet, just as they use the records from taxidermists and meat processors to determine who is killing what.

 

Yes, I was alluding to a phone interview to followup on the survey cards.

[Outdoor Writer]

I believe they already do use the internet, just as they use the records from taxidermists and meat processors to determine who is killing what.

 

Well, ain't that something.

 

Actually, I already knew that, thus the reason I mentioned it. I recall where they nailed some guy for a bull elk several years ago when they checked the records of a taxidermist.

 

A famous dude named Forest once said: "Stupid is as stupid does." -TONY

[DCMHunter]

Question???

 

Now that archery is going to be a draw in some units will they have a manditory reporting requirement or will they just have to fill out the servay card like the other draw hunts???

 

DCM

[DesertBull]

There is even more incentive to be untruthful now. A achery deer hunter might be tempted to say they killed their deer in a different unit, in an effort to try and keep their archery hunt in their favorite unit from going away or going to a draw.

 

Yeah, there ya go. Then folks can bitch even more about how badly G&F manages the resource

 

Wouldn't it be something if a guy kills a buck and posts the photos here. Then he goes about being "untruthful" on the survey card, and G&F happens to match up the two. Or perhaps they compare taxidermists' reports to survey cards? I wonder if they would have any legal recourse where something like falsifying information would kick in??

 

BTW, "untruthful" is like lying, no? But it's only a "little white lie." -TONY

 

 

No, untruthful is lying.

 

Or as a famous guy named Bill once said..."It depends on what your meaning of is is"?