Officials euthanize AZ jaguar

[missedagain]

The press conference is on azgfd for the macho b deal

 

http://www.azgfd.gov/video/ArizonaJaguarPr...onference.shtml

 

It says the video is no longer available, must have been good if they pulled it

[youngbuck]

The azgfd link had a youtube vid. this is the link for the youtube. it 40+ minutes long but pretty imformative.

 

[Coues Archer]

Thats awesome what a beautiful creature.

[quercus]

there's a very well-written, informative article in this morning's arizona daily star regarding macho b's death. kudos to the daily star in following this.

[audsley]

For any who care, here's a link to the story. I don't think the story is worth reading because, as usual, it seeks to rally public opinion against a team that has shown persistent dedication to jaguars and jaguar conservation for many years. Unable to see the forest for the trees, the reporter who wrote it believes Game & Fish is the running dog lackey of the hook & bullet crowd, that this is very, very wrong, and that caped crusaders like himself can help bring about needed reform. He has previously written histrionic "exposes" on such subjects as govt-approved coyote gunning. He has a loyal following of fellow hysterics and Game & Fish-haters, as you can see from the comments below the story.

 

http://www.azstarnet.com/metro/286500

 

Nowhere in this story did I find a smoking gun. It's not hard to find people willing to conjecture about this thing or that, and that's about all this story has to offer.

 

Coincidentally, today's AOL home page has a story about the euthanization of a famous race horse at the age of 25 years.

 

http://www.fanhouse.com/news/main/kentucky...a-dies%2F402699

 

No one seems to be questioning whether it was really necessary to put this horse down, even though someone saw it two weeks ago and thought it looked "fantastic." But did the horse really have a chronic degenerative spinal condition that caused it to fall? Was the condition being treated by competent people? Will there be a necropsy and the results sent to several universities and veterinary centers around the country for some Monday morning quarter-backing? If the press treated the horse's euthanization the way they're treating the jaguar case, I would expect similar inconsistencies and unresolved questions to surface. That's pretty normal. But to the opportunists and hysterics bent on further inflamming the already hyperventilated, no anomaly is too small or immaterial to wave around as if it means something.

 

Lest we forget, there was no law compelling G&F or USFWS to form the jaguar team and expend all this effort to photograph and study the jaguar. They did it because they care about jaguars and recognize that others also care about jaguars. The feckless losers who are now exploiting this issue do so because they care about themselves and their own agendas.

 

Go ahead, Mr. Oak. Ask me why I say that about them. And while you're at it, tell us who you are and what you've been doing before you showed up here for the first time when this subject surfaced, and have now posted three times on the forum, but only on this subject.

[KGAINES]

Well said audsley; after reading that I think that the decision made by the zoo vet was probably the best one. He was the one who was there, I think from the standpoint of the vet and the zoo they were in the best position to do whatever was needed to help the cat if that was an option. I criticized AZGFD and the whole thing in the beginning, but the more I read about it the more they are justified, not to mention that they do have the Jaguar team, and spend money on their study because they care.

[NRS]

For any who care, here's a link to the story. I don't think the story is worth reading because, as usual, it seeks to rally public opinion against a team that has shown persistent dedication to jaguars and jaguar conservation for many years. Unable to see the forest for the trees, the reporter who wrote it believes Game & Fish is the running dog lackey of the hook & bullet crowd, that this is very, very wrong, and that caped crusaders like himself can help bring about needed reform. He has previously written histrionic "exposes" on such subjects as govt-approved coyote gunning. He has a loyal following of fellow hysterics and Game & Fish-haters, as you can see from the comments below the story.

 

http://www.azstarnet.com/metro/286500

 

Nowhere in this story did I find a smoking gun. It's not hard to find people willing to conjecture about this thing or that, and that's about all this story has to offer.

 

Coincidentally, today's AOL home page has a story about the euthanization of a famous race horse at the age of 25 years.

 

http://www.fanhouse.com/news/main/kentucky...a-dies%2F402699

 

No one seems to be questioning whether it was really necessary to put this horse down, even though someone saw it two weeks ago and thought it looked "fantastic." But did the horse really have a chronic degenerative spinal condition that caused it to fall? Was the condition being treated by competent people? Will there be a necropsy and the results sent to several universities and veterinary centers around the country for some Monday morning quarter-backing? If the press treated the horse's euthanization the way they're treating the jaguar case, I would expect similar inconsistencies and unresolved questions to surface. That's pretty normal. But to the opportunists and hysterics bent on further inflamming the already hyperventilated, no anomaly is too small or immaterial to wave around as if it means something.

 

Lest we forget, there was no law compelling G&F or USFWS to form the jaguar team and expend all this effort to photograph and study the jaguar. They did it because they care about jaguars and recognize that others also care about jaguars. The feckless losers who are now exploiting this issue do so because they care about themselves and their own agendas.

 

Go ahead, Mr. Oak. Ask me why I say that about them. And while you're at it, tell us who you are and what you've been doing before you showed up here for the first time when this subject surfaced, and have now posted three times on the forum, but only on this subject.

+1

[June]

Audsley,

 

I was wondering if the borderlands project will continue to be funded and if so, will they move farther east to conduct their studies? How will this impact those hunting areas. Thanks, for your reply.

[audsley]

June,

 

I don't know the answer to that question. They've also been working south of the border. I would guess what they do next and where will depend on where the next jaguar siting occurs.

 

Almost forgot the second part of your question. We haven't seen any impacts on hunting as a result of a jaguar being present or the study. There were no special restrictions. I don't know what would have happened had the USFWS declared parts of 36B and C a Jaguar Recovery Zone.

 

 

[quercus]

audsley, you stated “...ask me why i say that about them” so, why do you say that about them, sir? you also mentioned that a caped crusader can bring about needed reform, therefore can one assume that you acknowledge such a need? now to your request regarding who i am and what i’ve been doing before i showed up here - i need specifics (ie profession, hobbies, education, age, ethnicity, religion, shoe size, and how far back shall i go?).

[KGAINES]

It looked like he asked a simple question to me, you weren't going to answer it anyways. All you want is to stir up trouble, I would love to hear what you think should have been done, what is the quercus Jaguar plan.

[audsley]

Mr. Oak (or Quercus, if you prefer Latin),

 

I just get curious any time a stranger rides into town and tries to inspire a mob to string up Game & Fish. Nobody around here seems to know you, and you haven't previously shown any interest in our affairs. Seems kinda funny you would surface right now expressing interest in this subject but no others.

 

I'll allow it's possible that you're simply young and a bit naive, as all of us once were, or simply new to wildlife politics, and maybe you mean no harm. On the other hand, members of some of these "liberal organizations" you referred to a few posts back (hoping they'd swing into action, as I recall) have been known to slip into the crowd on sportsmen's forums and do a little shilling while emotions are high. You wouldn't want to be confused with one of those people. Maybe you'd like this opportunity to clear that up.

 

As for the question I posed earlier, I believe the push for special land use designations such as Jaguar Recovery Zones, wilderness areas, conservation areas and so on have little to do with genuine conservation concerns. I believe instead these efforts are driven by politics, competition among non-profits for funding and a desire for power and recognition. Jaguars, condors, wolves and special land use designations with special rules and restrictions are merely tools to achieve those ends. I obtained this perception from studying the actions of these groups over a long period of time in a variety of situations.

 

 

[quercus]

stirring up trouble is the last thing i want to do. i simply made a post this morning after reading the article in the daily star stating that i found it to be interesting. i happen to have a different opinion than most on the topic - thats all. i was not the topic starter, just one who felt passionate about the topic and the lack of accountability on the part of azgfd. why is so difficult for some to appreciate differing opinions and the subsequent discussions/debates. never was i offensive nor did go so far as to call others out for having a different opinion than mine. let it go guys, there are more important things in life to worry about than others more intelligent than you with different views. audsley, from now on if i feel passionate about a topic ill comment on those also, in order for you to know who mr oak is. in the meantime, in lieu of contributing, albeit the wrong topic, i was not drawn for elk or pronghorn this year, nor was i drawn for spring turkey in the spring draw, nor was i drawn for deer, fall turkey or bighorn in the fall draw. please dont confuse me with “those” people as im a life member of the nra and was a supporter of romney to name a few. i look forward to future debates with you, and hopefully at times we’ll be on the same team.

[audsley]

No harm done at my end, Quercus. Sorry if I was a little rough on you. There's trouble in the valley right now, and besides being naturally suspicious of strangers who show up when there's trouble, I was in a furor this afternoon over the newspaper article and the readers' comments that followed the article.

 

If you read the readers' comments, here are some of the things you could have "learned":

 

- NRA limbots have taken over G & F in Arizona, who overissue hunting and fishing permits.

 

- They (Game & Fish) are now getting the State Legislature to make party affiliation, and length of affiliation, a requirement to be on the State G & Fish citizens oversight board,

 

- There hasn't been an "environmentalist" hired, or assigned to an oversight board, for G &F for over 15 years. In fact, they've been pushed out, or fired for enforcing the good laws, or made to tow the line or loose their jobs.

 

- They've (been) doing the exact same thing with every non-game species and especially predators. If they could wipe out ever bobcat, cougar, coyote and wolf, they would.

 

- You (Game & FIsh) are ambassadors to the environment who's salaries are paid by US taxpayers. Its time you started acting like it, and TAKE the expert assistance that is being offered to you by groups like Sky Island Alliance, and Southwest Center for Biologic Diversity

 

And so on. In better times, this stuff might be funny considering the commission and dept. is now the greenest it's ever been. Sportsmen's circles routinely buzz with complaints that greens are taking over Game & FIsh and USFWS, and that G&F is too afraid to do effective predator reductions despite their own research on the Three-Bar suggesting it would probably help bring back mule deer herds. The party affiliation remark is a distortion of the actual bill provision, and apparently the existence of G&F's non-game branch remains a secret. Obviously it's still a secret that G&F is largely funded by sportsmen's dollars, not taxpayers. I'm still trying to figure out which of our current commissioners is an "NRA limbot." Hernbrode maybe? Martin? They fooled me.

 

I've occasionally heard dept. personnel and commissioners speak disparagingly of sportsmen's forums as being loaded with misinformation and illogical thinking. Compared to what I've seen from the public at large, those who post on sportsmen's forums qualify as expert biologists and policy analysts.

 

quote name='quercus' date='Mar 30 2009, 05:49 AM' post='144151']

let it go guys, there are more important things in life to worry about than others more intelligent than you with different views.

 

I'll let that one go by for now. In the meantime, I'll work on increasing my intelligence.

 

 

[KGAINES]

stirring up trouble is the last thing i want to do. i simply made a post this morning after reading the article in the daily star stating that i found it to be interesting. i happen to have a different opinion than most on the topic - thats all. i was not the topic starter, just one who felt passionate about the topic and the lack of accountability on the part of azgfd. why is so difficult for some to appreciate differing opinions and the subsequent discussions/debates. never was i offensive nor did go so far as to call others out for having a different opinion than mine. let it go guys, there are more important things in life to worry about than others more intelligent than you with different views. audsley, from now on if i feel passionate about a topic ill comment on those also, in order for you to know who mr oak is. in the meantime, in lieu of contributing, albeit the wrong topic, i was not drawn for elk or pronghorn this year, nor was i drawn for spring turkey in the spring draw, nor was i drawn for deer, fall turkey or bighorn in the fall draw. please dont confuse me with “those” people as im a life member of the nra and was a supporter of romney to name a few. i look forward to future debates with you, and hopefully at times we’ll be on the same team.

 

Thanks for clearing up a few things, we get people that like to come in here and say something to stir up trouble and disappear. I look forward to hearing from you in the future as well. I am one who questions the AZGFD on a lot of things, but on this I think they were correct, I even sent them an email asking why and explaining my concern, I received a response that answered my questions. I feel like they are the ones catching all the flak on this when they were the only ones willing to take the chance to do something that hasn't been done in the states and I applaud their efforts on this. I truly hate the entire wolf project and have let them know that as well.

 

Audsley I seen a few of those responses too, and in simple terms they piss me off.