Are you ready for the long shot? I am...

[shortpants]

Gary I'm glad you brought that up. I believe if your shooting a factory rifle like I am your scope should cost more than your rifle. Almost any factory rifle these days are capable of moa shooting out to 500 and even 600 yds. without doing a whole lot of work to them. I have done a trigger job and put a break on my rifle but other than that it is right off the shelf. It's a quality scope that makes shooting well possible.

 

This write up was for everyone but most of us are not capable of a one shot kill past 500 yds. I practice at ranges much farther because I love long range shooting and want to get better at it. Then there are those who are more educated on the subject than most of us. Don't let the technical break down scare you away from doing exactly what I did. Anybody can learn to be accurate at 500 yds. with the rifles and ammunition of today.

OH BY THE WAY, I'M SHOOTING FACTORY 165gr. FUSION AMMO! I intend to get into reloading in the near future as well as putting a quality stock on my rifle. I am slowly learning what it takes to be the shooter I want to be. The point is if your not practicing and trying to better your shooting then like Jim stated most people have no business shooting past 300yds. There is nothing wrong with being a 300 yd. shooter or 500 or 2 miles for that matter as long as you KNOW WHAT YOU ARE CAPABLE OF!!!

[Broken Wheels]

Some very good tips and information in this thread and I thank you! I have a jarhead (said with affection!) who has always talked it up about shooting way out there. I am the opposite and think if they are that far you shoudn't have a problem "hunting" them, or in other words putting a sneak on them to a more respectable distance. He finally grasped this concept and I have enjoyed watching him miss close shots that he normally wouldn't and in turn I have been fortunate enough to harvest critters out to some pretty long distances and enjoyed the satisfaction of making a good, clean shot! Each person has their own way of hunting and as long as it is ethical and morally right then more power to us all. Thanks again for giving me a couple new ideas and good luck on yor next hunt!

[shortpants]

I apologize for rambling on and on about this but I keep remembering more stuff that relates to how I came up with a 500 yd. max for this hunt.

I mentioned earlier that groups mean nothing when it comes to making a one shot kill. A couple of shooting trips ago I shot a 7'' group at 800 yds., a 6'' group at 700 yds., and a 5'' group at 600 yds. This was very important that day because my goal was to determin my drop at those ranges and a consistant group is what you need when sighting in. Well if I could shoot that well at those ranges why not attempt it on live game? NONE OF THESE GROUPS WERE IN THE BULLSEYE! I didn't care about hitting the bullseye that day. I just wanted to know my elevation adjustments. There was a 10-15mph crosswind that day. At 800 yds. my bullet was pushed 56'' to the right of my bullseye! That's why I use a whole sheet of plywood to shoot at.

 

I stress again GROUPS MEAN NOTHING ON A ONE SHOT KILL!

 

WHAT CAN YOU DO WITH ONLY ONE SHOT???

[firstcoueswas80]

Jason,

 

I tend to think that quite a few people will do things atleast half way right.. or maybe a little less. They will take the time to develop a load, get a good scope with turrets etc, put all the numbers into a ballistics calculator convert inches, clicks etc etc, make a drop chart... Then call it good. That is a real good start, but actually testing the drop that the calculator says, and how your scope/set up tracks etc is the real test. When I first got into this with my .270 wsm I cant even tell you how much time I spend shooting to test all of these. The results were actually quite impressive. From a prone rest, with just a bipod my rifle held 1/2 MOA out to 600 yards... 3 inches at 600 yards, I was dang impressed!

 

My 257 wby is not nearly as impressive, but does the same in the long run. The .257 shoots .75 MOA out too 600. I used it on my longest shot last year at 571. I needed about 3 more inches for the wind to be doped perfectly, but since I spent as much time shooting my reloads and testing at long ranges, I knew where the bullet would hit.

 

I dont know what others have seen from the ballistics calculators, but the calculator I used for both my 270 wsm and 257 wby (same one) was within one click out to 700 yards.

[308Nut]

Do you find that wind measuring device useful in hunting situations? The only reason I ask is, there have been several instances when shooting acorss a canyon, that I have noticed the wind blowing a completley different direction and/or velocity on the other side, where the deer is. The wind will have more effect on the bullet as it slows, which means last 50 yards of travle will have more wind effect than the 1st 50 yards.

 

Youre on the right track but the above isnt quite what is really going on. Wind drift has much to do with the time of flight. The reality is that a strong gust near the starting point has a greater affect on the drift than the same gust near the target. IE: If a bullet gets hit with a 10 MPH gust within 50 yards of the target after having 700 yards of no wind, the drift is very minimal. If the same bullet were to get hit with the same gust at 50 yards from the muzzle and then travel 700 yards in no wind you will see a significant amount of drift.

 

As a side note, you can measure the wind at your location for a few minutes to determine an average. Typically if youre shooting across a canyon, the wind is typically double what it is at your location on the side through the middle. If youre playing the thermals (which in AZ can be hard to do with most hunting taking place in flat to semi flat areas, you can envision what water would do if it was flowing down the terrain for down hill thermal and reverse it for uphill thermals. Other clues to direction and speed at distance is looking to mirage, dust, fog, brush and anything else likely to be in the air such as cotton wood seeds and the like. You cant overlook spin drift at ranges past 700 or 800 yards as well. This will need to be added or subtracted from the windage for your final windage adjustment. As always, there is no substitute for practice practice and more practice along with an intimate knowledge of what goes into a long range shot and why.

 

Kudos for getting out there and finding your limitations.

 

The LR tip I would add to this thread is that out to a certain point (this is determined by how flat your cartridge is and how big or small your target is) you can field verify your drops and make a note of this for future reference. This threshold is on average 600 yards. For smaller calibers such as 243's through the 308 and 30-06 and similar cartrdiges when small critters are the target such as coues it can be more like 500 yards. When you exceed this threshold, your drop chart wont be accurate UNLESS you factor in temprature and barometric pressure. Humidity has a very very small effect on LR shooting. Altitude only affects it due to different pressures. If you look to 'raw' pressure at location and temprature at location, you can get accurate ballistics at beyond the threshold point. Just remember that raw pressure is MORE important than just using altitude. This is because if you use altitude as a factor the default is 29.92 at sea level or 29.53 depending on your software. If the sea level pressure is higher or lower than standard, then using altitude becomes a waste of time albiet it is better than using nothing at all it still will be in-accurate.

 

For example:

 

My favorite rifle and load combo yeilds -148" of drop at 800 yards in standard conditions (0', 59 degrees, 78% humidity and 29.92" Hg.) Where as at coues elevation where I will be hunting this year and 35 degrees F, the drop will be 136" at the same range. Thats a 12" difference. One had best compensate for the current conditions at location to score past the threshold. Now my threshold is about 600 yards. Using the same two examples above yet changing from 800 to 600 yards and the drop changes only 4" between 0' and 59 degrees and 5000' and 35 degrees. This is getting pretty close to a miss for a couse kill zone. For coues, I may call the threshold 500 yards where the difference is only 1.5" between 0' and 5000'. Dont forget (if you dont use ballistic software) to convert your clicks from MOA to inches before you calculate how many clicks you need to compensate for the inches of drop. Typically your zero wont change much or enough to worry about when changing altitudes, temps or pressures. This is provided of course that your zero does not exceed 300 yards. On average for a 300 yard zero when zeroed in standard air density and then moving to 5000' with all other factors remaining the same, the true zero changes just over one half of an inch. This would equate to missing the dead center of the mark by 1.5" at 800 yards by not compensating for that .6 inch difference at your zero that was created by the change of altitude of 5000'. So in short, the zero changed 0.6" which caused a 1.5" shift at 800 yards as well as the 12 inches of difference between 0' and 5000' for a total of 13.5" of difference just from going to 5000' from 0'. For a 200 yard zero it will be even less. Along the lines of one quater of one inch at zero and 1" at 800 yards. Now if you had a farther zero, the difference would be come greater.

 

 

Sorry if I highjacked this thread.

 

Thanks for sharing.

[COOSEFAN]

Another very important fact and one that's already been stated is elevation. You always have to be mindful of the elevation in which your hunting in relation to what the elevation was when you sighted your rifle in. Elevation change isn't that noticeable at closer ranges but it doesn't take much of an elevation change to make a huge difference at long range! I got my first taste of this during my Kaibab hunt last year. My rifle was sighted in at 5000ft and my hunt was to take place around 6500-7000ft. I checked my zero at 200 and was 2" high, no problem i thought, but then at 700 yards I was completely off my target and most likely would have missed a buck or wounded em'! Always try to sight in at the elevation you usually hunt in and always try to check your zero once in your hunt area prior to the hunt.

 

As for calculators, after we figured out the load that my gun liked best, we used the ballistics calculator to get the clicks close. We then went and found a spot in the elevation I usually hunt and shot through each of the yardages to make sure it was all correct with my set-up. I remember the calculator was off just a little bit for my set-up, can't remember how far though, but I remember thinking it was a good thing we shot it to make sure before marking the turret. We use white electrical tape on the turret and mark all the tested yardages on it starting with the 200 yard zero. Once it's all set we'll then put clear tape around the turret so the marks don't get smudged. This illiminates counting clicks or pulling your face away from the gun to look at a chart. It's also nice knowing that each of the yardage marks were actually fine tuned by shooting it, not just because some computer said it should be good!

[shortpants]

Hey 308 nut thanks for the post. Thats where I lack in my shooting skills is my lack of understanding of what can happen or what has to happen to be accurate beyond 600 yds. I have obtained all of my knowlege by shooting. I have rarely used ballistic charts or programs because I'm one of those that has to see it to believe it. I'm figuring out however, that I'd better learn to utilize these tools if I want to take my shooting to the next level.

 

Jim your right on. I love your set up and hope to build a custom like yours someday!

[GameHauler]

Jason, Thanks for starting this topic as I am in the same mode as you

but have not been able to do the range time this past year with my shoulder.

I have done pretty much the same as you with 2 riffles but have added custom

stocks and bedded.

I also reload and have a ton of bullets to work loads up with to find the best combo.

My TC's are calling me out every day but can't yet.

I just got done 5 minutes ago mounting a scope on my 22LR Match barrel (23")

and will be my practice and back shooting barrel as the shoulder heals.

Then the 223 and next the 7MM-08 then 7-30 Waters and my bad boy 7Mag.

When I am 100% out comes the 375JDJ in a 14" configuration for next years Bear.

 

Great replies every one and I hope we all learn allot from this topic,

Especially "Qoute of the day: "THATS STEP ONE: GET OUT AND PROVE WHAT YOU CAN DO BEFORE TAKING SHOTS ON GAME!"

 

[308Nut]

I have rarely used ballistic charts or programs because I'm one of those that has to see it to believe it. I'm figuring out however, that I'd better learn to utilize these tools if I want to take my shooting to the next level.

 

If your computer has MS Excel on it, PM me your email and I can email you a free excel based calculator (you can also use it on a portable hand held pocket PC for field use) so you can play around with the numbers at different altitudes, pressures and tempratures. It is field proven to 1K yards and is scary accurate.

 

[Coues Archer]

Hope you get that world record!!! Buck your supposably saying your going to get.Good luck dont miss.

[mtngoat]

Hey 308nut, I'd be interested in that software as well if you don't mind.

 

my email is vrmt_klr@hotmail.com

 

Thanks

[game hntr]

308nut please let me know if i can have it too.. if you don't mind. Thank you

[game hntr]

Here is my rifle sight in at 200 yards.... i went to the range to sight in my scope because it was way off on left side... after i adjusted you can see the last 3 shots i have made.. 308 savage 10fp LE. I will take it out this week and try 600 yards. 600 + yards i have to play with the turrets. i have a swarovski on it 6x24 50mm.

[308Nut]

308nut please let me know if i can have it too.. if you don't mind. Thank you

 

PM me your email.

[game hntr]

308nut please let me know if i can have it too.. if you don't mind. Thank you

 

PM me your email.

Thank you