Will 5.56 damage fox?

[firstcoueswas80]

I don't think there are exceptions to the no fmj rule..... regardless of what was said at an AZGFD office I wouldn't use any fmj...

[WampusCat]

To answer your question... YES, 5.56 will damage fox.

 

This topic will bring a hundred different opinions from a hundred different guys.

 

When I think varmint bullet, I think vaporizing P-dogs or exploding jacks. Not the same quality i seek out for a fur bullet. When a screaming fast V-Max hits a shoulder blade or rib it violently expands (like it was designed to) but it does it right on the surface of the pelt. We call this a splash. I stood there in awe a few times staring at baseball size entrace holes from .20 and .22 cal projectiles.

 

Also should be noted that just because a bullet is "hollowpoint" doesnt mean it is of the expanding variety. Match hollowpoints are typically a byproduct of bullet manufacturing. (filling jacket with lead from the nose instead of base) Not designed to expand and typically do not.

 

Some guys like to sew but not walk 20 extra yards to grab the odd dog that got a few extra steps in before running out of gas and will reccomend larger calibers. I seem to drift down to smaller and smaller calibers and try to take well aimed shots. I used a .17 hornet all last season and never lost a critter that absorbed one of those little pills. I was not calling contests but trying to fill stretchers. I am sold on that little CZ for coyotes and smaller inside 200 yds.

 

I have found lead BBs out of shotguns .22 mags and .17 cals are gonna treat your fox pelts the best.

 

As always your mileage may vary.

[.270]

Fmj's are illegal but all copper are legal. Go figger. Foxes come in close, they are small, anything with hotrod velocity will pop em like a water melon. If you're really hunting for groceries and gonna sell em, use a .22 or .22 mag or a 20 gauge with low base 8's. They die easy. Lark.

[rancilio]

mmtx10, why no head shots?

[yotebuster]

Use a FMJ. Not because it works dang good, but just to piss all the nay sayers off.

[Hyperwrx]

If you are looking to put up fur, shooting a target animal in the head risks a lot of blood getting on the fur and making a mess of the fur in the head area, thus creating more challenges stretching it on a stretcher. With foxes in cage traps, I put the business end of a rugar revolver in the cage, the fox bites the 6" barrel and I shoot it down the throat into its vitals. No exit, no head damage, blood typically stays in the fox.

 

I shoot a .17 Fireball (25g @ 3900) when chasing fox and bobcat but wouldn't recommend it on coyotes if a headshot is what you are looking for. I shot a lion in the forehead in 36B with my .17FB and never recovered it. Here is a video of a coyote I shot in the head with the .17FB. Right between the eyes. Coyote was not ethically dispatched in my opinion and I wont try that again. FYI, I was targeting foxes and the coyote came along.

 

 

I has Dan Carey build me a .17 Remington upper last year for my AR-15 and find it does a much better job dropping a coyote with minimal fur damage. Shot about 15 so far this year and enjoy just putting crosshairs on a coyote out past 250 and seeing it drop.

[Presmyk]

I was looking at .17 rem for varmint rifle just wasn't sure how would do on yote. It would be a bolt gun not semi so follow up shots not as easy as ar. Out of those 15 you got how many needed a follow up shot? What bullet and grain do you use?

[firstcoueswas80]

Use a FMJ. Not because it works dang good, but just to piss all the nay sayers off.

That's good advice... telling someone to break the law.

[Hyperwrx]

I was looking at .17 rem for varmint rifle just wasn't sure how would do on yote. It would be a bolt gun not semi so follow up shots not as easy as ar. Out of those 15 you got how many needed a follow up shot? What bullet and grain do you use?

 

I don't reload except for shotgun so I end of paying out the nose for bullets. I shoot Armagaddon 20 g FB hollow points by Nosler. 4200fps out the barrel. Fairly flat trajectory. It's an inbetween caliber for bobcats, foxes, and a coyote. If you are looking for just a coyote gun with a super flat trajectory in a bolt action, I'd go with a .22-250 hands down. It's a good fur caliber for coyotes. Well placed shots will not have you sewing much if any. Hit a shoulder and you'll experience a splash as another mentioned. .22-250 is THE coyote fur gun. The best guys in the United States swear by them, and if those guys count on that caliber, I'll take their word for it and use one. I have one and have killed proally 50ish coyotes with it over the years. Mean gun out to great distances. Packs more of a punch and isn't as fur friendly on a little grey fox or a thin skinned bobcat.

 

My .17 Remington is a nice coyote gun. Accurate and fast. Few follow up shots are needed if a hunter can have the patience for a quality shot.

 

My recipe- no wildcats since I don't reload. I own these all and shoot them regularly.

 

.17 Fireball- Fox and bobcats (fur gun)

.17 Remington- Bobcats and coyotes (fur gun)

.22-250- Coyote (fur and competition hunt gun)

.223- Coyote only (recreational gun)

 

I shoot more with a 12 GA shotgun shooting #4 or F shot than all the other combined.

 

As mentioned everyone has an opinion.

[WampusCat]

Like everything else we use, everyone has their favorite tools for the job. None are wrong except for meeting the goals of the user.

 

.17 Fireball has been on my wish list for years! I think its the perfect fur caliber and wonder why it never caught on and now Remington seems to be letting it fading away. Brass and factory chamberings are pretty rare. The full blown .17 rem is an awesome catridge and the only reason I dont put together an upper is I dont want to look for brass after a stand and the AR platform slings them all over.

 

Shot the barrel out of a 22-250 growing up and still have one today. No doubt they put coyotes down with authority, but I still cringe when a fox or cat steps out because I know what is about to happen when I'm packing that rifle. 50gr Vmax's were deadly accurate but even on coyotes they still suffered from the dreaded splash occasionally. Not a deal breaker on scroungy desert dogs, but more important on higher elevation praire coyotes. Loading 36gr Barnes Varmint Grenades over Varget at 4,400 fps makes a 300 yd laser beam and as good on fur as it gets in that caliber. Mine hasnt seen near as much use in the last 4-5 years since the ARs caught on and mil surplus brass is everywhere. Wayward flying brass from the ejection port doesnt need hunting down.

 

During my limited season last year I shot 23 coyotes, a pile of fox, and 2 cats with a .17 Hornet in AZ/KS were dispatched immediately with ZERO damage to fur. None needed a follow up, but a few got one. For most it was like the life was just snatched right out of them, sometimes without even drawing blood. The lack of mess it creates for a fur guy is a huge deal to me. I will start another post soon on that gun and my results with it.

[WampusCat]

Here is a video of a coyote I shot in the head with the .17FB. Right between the eyes. Coyote was not ethically dispatched in my opinion and I wont try that again.

 

Great video. Someday I want to start filming.

 

I dont know the specifics or circumstances of the shot but it looks as though the same branches blocking the camera shot were blocking yours as well. Did the small .17 pill not penetrate the skull completely? Not armchairing your shot at all, but with your experience with that gun do you think the results would have been more "instant" with a shot 3-4" lower in the neck?

 

The one down fall I experience with the smaller calibers is the need for a well placed shot. Sometimes as I'm sure you know I have to wait a bit longer for the right angle. I'm not a contest caller so I feel I can afford a few extra moments to wait em' out.

[Hyperwrx]

 

Here is a video of a coyote I shot in the head with the .17FB. Right between the eyes. Coyote was not ethically dispatched in my opinion and I wont try that again.

 

Great video. Someday I want to start filming.

 

I dont know the specifics or circumstances of the shot but it looks as though the same branches blocking the camera shot were blocking yours as well. Did the small .17 pill not penetrate the skull completely? Not armchairing your shot at all, but with your experience with that gun do you think the results would have been more "instant" with a shot 3-4" lower in the neck?

 

The one down fall I experience with the smaller calibers is the need for a well placed shot. Sometimes as I'm sure you know I have to wait a bit longer for the right angle. I'm not a contest caller so I feel I can afford a few extra moments to wait em' out.

 

Shot placement is my #1 concern when using any of the .17s. From splashes to unethical kils, the .17 are a gun made for a patient marksman. I don;t know if I mentioned it in this thread but I lost a lion down near Patagonia 4ish years ago. Was shooting grey fox and a lion showed up on stand nestled in the Junipers. I let him get as close as I could as I knew the .17 FB was going to have to work a miracle. All I had was a head and upper shoulder shot so at 33 yards I zerod on the head between the eyes and the bullet defiantly smacked him in the face as he jumped and flipped all over in the dirt for a while but I was unable to recover him. I think the bullet ricocheted off the skull. On the coyote in the video, my angle was a bit different than his. I didn't have much of a shot and the head was the best spot at that moment. Coyote was looking at us dead center and I expected him to bug out quick. Bullet penetrated but not like what you'd expect. I'd expect an instant death at 25g flying at 3900.

 

You the same Wumpuspus cat that is or was an active military guy down South? Didn't I meet you at an ATA sale? You're a fan of sleepy creek footholds?

[WampusCat]

 

I'd expect an instant death at 25g flying at 3900.

 

I would too, thats why I was intrigued. Never ceases to amaze me what those little bullets will and wont do when they are screaming down range.

 

You the same Wumpuspus cat that is or was an active military guy down South? Didn't I meet you at an ATA sale? You're a fan of sleepy creek footholds?

 

Thats me, Strawberry or ATA sales or conventions, bumped into ya several times. They messed up and sent me overseas again this year so I spent most of last season at schools on the east coast. Made it to the sale this year and sold everything I had during all the "no sales", lol. I was leaving and had fun collecting what I brought. Success!

 

I dig the #4 Creek Double Longs for an exposed pan cat set. For everything else canine I am a modified #3 Bridger guy. Only lug around cages cause AZ makes me.

[Hyperwrx]

 

 

I'd expect an instant death at 25g flying at 3900.

 

I would too, thats why I was intrigued. Never ceases to amaze me what those little bullets will and wont do when they are screaming down range.

 

You the same Wumpuspus cat that is or was an active military guy down South? Didn't I meet you at an ATA sale? You're a fan of sleepy creek footholds?

 

Thats me, Strawberry or ATA sales or conventions, bumped into ya several times. They messed up and sent me overseas again this year so I spent most of last season at schools on the east coast. Made it to the sale this year and sold everything I had during all the "no sales", lol. I was leaving and had fun collecting what I brought. Success!

 

I dig the #4 Creek Double Longs for an exposed pan cat set. For everything else canine I am a modified #3 Bridger guy. Only lug around cages cause AZ makes me.

 

 

I thought this was you. I took all the cats and foxes I had and dumped everything at the last ATA sale as well. I think I made out fine, but my fur was way before all the no sales came up and Ron had to get up and lecture everyone. I know some good fur that either no saled or got pennies on the dollar due to the buyers working together to walk away with lots of nice fur for a song and dance. The Briarpatch sale in Kingman did no better or even worse. NAFA might have squeezed out a little more cash but money in my hand quick is worth a percentage of my profits.

 

I appreciate the sacrifices you go through serving in the armed forces. You guys doing what you do, enable hunters and trappers all over the United States to enjoy the freedoms we do in a round about way. No trapping overseas?

 

.17s are a real blast to shoot. I've shot grey foxes broadside and 15 yards and had no visible entry and no exit. Pick em up and it sounds like a slushy mess inside. Instant death. Here is a fun video. 2 foxes and 1 cat on 1 stand. 1 fox I shot though the grass on and missed. 25g at 3900 fps can't go through anything and expect the trajectory to go haywire or the bullet fragment. Bobcat was recovered a little ways away.

 

[Presmyk]

That is a awesome vid. You have alot of your hunts on vid?