Draw for Archery Deer from now on....

[donniedent]

LOL... yeah sorry for my part in this. The exact reason I don't go THERE anymore!

 

I think guys are just very passionant about archery hunting and I think we're ALL sick of G&F messing with our hunting. I think we'd all like to see more managment of wildlife and less managment of hunters. Its a fine balance and I think they've tipped the scales in the wrong direction lately.

 

Stupid arguements aren't the norm around here but this is just evidence as to how much we love to bow hunt and how tired most of us have becone with OUR G&F department.

 

 

Donnie

[Dan H]

Same thing every time a change is proposed or made. Why do so many act so shocked?

Everyone had an oppurtunity to go to the AZGFD meeting a few months back and voice their opinion.

Most users were probably sent an e-mail reminder from the AZGFD as well.

14 people showed up in Mesa, it should have been 1400.

 

Dan

[Huntn coues]

We should Stick together boy's and girl's if we want to win some of these uphill battles.

 

Even if you use a sissy boom stick to hunt with most of the time we need to stand together.

[Non-Typical Solutions]

I'm new on the board, and new to the coues hunting, pressure, illegals and all other factors that play into a hunting unit, specifically the southern units. But here is my two cents worth.

Unit 36B in the month of

October-1025 whitetail rifle permits, 175 mulie rifle permits and 90 javalina hunter permits

November-1025 whitail rifle permits, 225 mulie rifle permits and 60 javalina hunter permits

December-200 whitetail rifle permits

 

This does not take in to account any archery tags that go to 36B.

 

I don't know much at all about unit 36B, looks kind of small geographically, but can a unit like this take a pounding like that? I am asking because I don't know.

 

I have hunted unit 10 muledeer for years, but that area is huge and you can usually find a canyon or ridge that you can hunt without being too interupted, it is full of road hunters so if you have a notion to get out of your truck, you can usually actually hunt.

 

I worry about government clamping down on priviledges, but maybe we do overhunt some areas. I do know one thing, once they take it away, they don't usually give it back.

[kwp]

The one thing that really confuses me about Game and Fish is how they are implementing this plan to provide more hunting opportunity but by putting archery deer to a draw they are taking away the tag that provides more big game hunting opportunity than any other. It seems to me that they are contradicting themselves.

 

Also, if my memory is correct, it seems like many of the units that are going to an archery draw are central and northern AZ units that until a few years ago only had 1 rifle hunt. (Remember the uproar when they changed it so that all units had the three hunt structure). Now the G&F is saying that too many deer are being harvested and archery deer needs to be restricted. Seems to me that if they hadn't restructured the rifle hunts a couple of years ago that less deer would be harvested in the rifle hunts giving a buffer for the increased success of archery hunters.

 

Shows that they started by just getting their foot in the door changing a few things and now the flood gates have opened to complete reform to wildlife management in Arizona

[bowcrazy]

It sounds like its official, at the end of this year you will have to start putting in for Archery Deer, and its archery or rifle, no second trys.

I'm happy, less yahoos running around with bows, inless they are serious...

 

 

I think its about time they make you decide what you want to hunt with, now the only thing they need to add is the archers that are applying need to qualify with the bow in order to apply, I believe you owe it to the animal. as far as having both tags you are still only allowed one deer per calendar year anyway, not one with rifle and one with a bow. I also have to agree with KWP about the restructure G&F created. to me its another way to grab more money for apps, but I still like the idea of choosing.

[Ron G.]

Seems to me that if they hadn't restructured the rifle hunts a couple of years ago that less deer would be harvested in the rifle hunts giving a buffer for the increased success of archery hunters.

 

It is my understanding the whole reason they chose the 20% ratio of archery success to rifle success is because 20% of the hunters are archery hunters, and the other 80% are rifle hunters. The archery hunters were harvesting too many deer, thus rifle tags would have to be cut, but since there is more of a demand for rifle hunters, they needed to reduce the archery take.

 

Increased archery success means there needs to be a way to manage the archery success in certain units, thus the moving towards the draw for archery deer in some units. Not saying I agree, just saying.

 

If additional rifle hunts meant more rifle harvests, that would help archers keep opportunity by reducing the % harvest to below the 20% ratio. I haven't reviewed the numbers, but it sounds like the G&F was able to add rifle tags (opportunity) without increasing the overall rifle harvest. Once again, the archery harvest has increased, so the need was perceived to limit archers (archery success).

[jbone]

I'm with ya bowcrazy, decide one or the other and prove you can shoot prior to just letting a dozen arrows go during a weekend of drinking and driving the roads. How it is structured now is you have a rifle tag, you can still go out with your bow, and if you kill you don't get to use your rifle tag and neither does the guy that didn't get drawn so that tag goes to waist. Another post on this site is a perfect example of this, a tag going to waist. I also would have shot that buck and let my rifle tag go to waist, but is that fair to the guy that doesn't bow hunt and only rifle hunts? He/she only has one chance to harvest a deer why should we that archery hunt have two chances. I say decide what tag you want and thats the tag you get. At least if you have a rifle tag, no archery tag for you, keep us that drew a tag out of the woods and let the guys that didn't draw have the woods to themselves or at least less people. Just a thought?

[couesdiehard]

Not happy about this one but the thought occured to me, what advantage does G&F see in archery deer draws when this is obviously a great "opportunity" hunt without a draw.

Could it be so G&F can collect $7.50 application fees from archery deer hunters? I sure hope not because then it convinces me that all they care about is $$$, not about game or opportunity.

Lee

[donniedent]

Or they could just take my unsed tag and give it to the next guy in line in the draw. If guys don't like only having one chance at a deer they should buy a bow, thats what I did! By the way my tag won't be going to waste, it'll be going to a child in the HOAL program who really deserves it.

 

It is what it is and we aren't going to change it at this point. Like I said before, lets take all this energy and direct it to something we can do something about. Go dig a water catchment this weekend, burn off some energy!

 

Donnie

[Non-Typical Solutions]

Don't slam me on this rifle hunters (me), but I believe that archery hunters in general have a higher success rate due to a couple of factors.

1-Less hunters in the field, therefore a better chance at an actual hunt instead of being involved in an involuntary deer drive.

2-Archery hunters tend to do their homework more than rifle hunters do, not to say that there aren't some dang good rifle hunters out there that don't do their homework.

3-Once opening morning hits with all the road hunters, the general population of rifle hunters don't tag out and only those who have done their homework, example, where the deer go after opening morning, go ahead an fill their tags.

 

It used to be, 10 years ago that you could put in for a southern unit as your last choice and guarantee a tag, not so true anymore. More people equals less chance of getting drawn and AZ is a hot spot for growth right now. I'll be people who have lived in the phoenix area used to be able to hunt quail, dove etc, not to far from home, but now you gotta drive for an hour just to get out of dodge.

 

You really want deer population to go up....kill a lion!!!!!!

[crazy4COUES]

Do you think the G&F did enough homework on archery statistics for hunters in any particular unit, let alone the actual hunter success rates? Do you think the rifle hunt numbers in any of these particular units are going down? Do you think the affects of this "draw" system will affect the deer heard in a positive way? If so will the rifle hunt numbers go up? Also will it allow the archery tags to go up accordingly? We will have to wait and see. Point is, too many questions, not enough answers. Basically majority rules guys and gals. Majority of people hunt with rifles, they are catering to the majority. MAJORITY=MONEY hands down!

[coueschaser3]

I really dont think its that bad of an idea. There are alot of people who simply pick up a bow cuz they find out they dont have to get drawn and go and wing arrows at stuff. More serious hunters who are passionate about it should know that it is a matter of game management. I am only 23 years old and personally can see the drop in deer populations where i hunt in that short of time. Now not saying that azgfd is doing this for management and not for money in the bank but i dont think it is such a bad idea. i would love the opportunity of maybe drawing a 13a or 13b tag with a little better odds, something previously we never had the option to do. In my opinion if it can keep more younger deer growing to maturity then great. They are a resource that need to be taken care of for future generations to enjoy at the same quality we once enjoyed. And if you dont draw the tag you want there are still plentiful options of other places to hunt with your beloved over the counter tag. heck i would give up chasin deer for a year or two and concentrate on quail if i thought it would improve quantity and/or quality. i dont beleive they are there for us to harvest all of them and hunt as much as WE want.

[Rembrant]

Not happy about this one but the thought occured to me, what advantage does G&F see in archery deer draws when this is obviously a great "opportunity" hunt without a draw.

Could it be so G&F can collect $7.50 application fees from archery deer hunters? I sure hope not because then it convinces me that all they care about is $$$, not about game or opportunity.

Lee

 

 

Lee,

Wouldn't the Dept make more money with unlimited tag sales? When forced to make a choice, a lot of bow hunters will choose the rifle hunt and forsake the bow hunt, so the Dept won't get that app fee or the tag fee.

So, it's not all about the money.

They are in the business of maximizing the resource. It's been going on for decades in the form of splitting units, separating mule deer from whitetail hunts, statifying hunts etc.

All this is because of the ever increasing demand (too many people) on the resource.

Historically bowhunters have had limited success on deer. Lately we've been getting a lot better at it, which translates to increased demand on the resource. When should the Dept step in and protect the resource? 10 years from now? after you and me and all our buddies get our trophy deer? What about the resource?

Mike

[donniedent]

Do you think the G&F did enough homework on archery statistics for hunters in any particular unit, let alone the actual hunter success rates? Do you think the rifle hunt numbers in any of these particular units are going down? Do you think the affects of this "draw" system will affect the deer heard in a positive way? If so will the rifle hunt numbers go up? Also will it allow the archery tags to go up accordingly? We will have to wait and see. Point is, too many questions, not enough answers. Basically majority rules guys and gals. Majority of people hunt with rifles, they are catering to the majority. MAJORITY=MONEY hands down!

 

I think G&F knows what they want to see happen and will take the steps it requires to make them happen, with or without us. I think we could see some good effects from the draw in the future but thats not why G&F did what they did. They did what they did to even things out as they saw fit. You know the whole 20% thing. I see why they did it. I also think there is alot more double dipping going on than most of us realize. Thats another problem altogether. I also think the amount of archers failing to report their harvest have caused this problem. Lots of shadey guys out there fellas, we can thank them for this.

 

Fact is, we don't have alot of deer out there and even though I can't stand how G&F goes about things, its gonna leave more deer out there.

 

I'm still wondering who is gonna put in for a unit 7 early archery deer tag first or second choice. Not many! I also think you Kiabab guys are gonna love having less California and Utah plates up there too. Its too bad they didn't move a select few tags to rut hunts in these units as well. If they got creative, they could find ways to do a draw and still keep archers happy. But do they really care??

 

Donnie