Hunters are worried about global warming

[audsley]

In reality, I suspect the responses in this thread are fairly representative of the sportsmen community at large - about two global warming skeptics for every believer. But I'm not real worried about it.

 

For some time now I've observed an organized effort by environmentalists and ivory tower types to project hunters and anglers as being aligned with environmentalists on a number of issues. This often causes me great concern, but in this case I'm not sure it's a bad thing. Considering that environmentalists are usually working hard to portray hunters as short-sighted, self-centered hogs concerned only with feeding our own egos and appetites, a public campaign that portrays hunters as protectors of the natural world is probably good for our image with the non-hunting public, even if we don't necessarily deserve it.

 

What concerns me more is that none of these groups will ever take on the Green Machine on issues where they are clearly wrong-headed. Just once I'd like to see the Wildlife Management Institute, Izaak Walton, Trout Unlimited or the Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership oppose the Sierra Club, Wilderness Society or Center for Biological Diversity when they sue to stop sportsmen and wildlife managers from carrying out active management for conservation. But they are too politically correct, as well as downright green in some cases, to side with the sportsmen and wildlife they claim to represent against the anti-hunting, anti-management interests in the Green Machine.

[Outdoor Writer]

you forget that during the industrial revolution that us horrible people burned coal and kerosene to stay warm and run machinery. why isn't the sky falling in on us now because of what our forefathers did back then.why? because God has this wonderful thing thats called an environment that heals and protects itself. look at where the atom bomb was dropped.

 

Some facts to ponder:

 

The Industrial revolution in the U.S. is normally considered to have occurred from 1820-1870. Stretching it, we could say it was ongoing into the early 1900s.

 

In the U.S, the record for the amount of hard coal mined during those years was 678+ million tons in 1918. In 2006, the U.S. alone extracted over 900 million tons, nearly a 1/3 more than the record of the 1900s. Most of that went to fuel approximately 600 power plants (1,600 plant units) and 1,100 manufacturing facilities that still use coal.

 

In 2006, China extracted 2,482 MILLION tons. The world-wide production and consumption of hard coal in 2006 was 5,339 MILLION tons. None of these figures take in the soft or brown coal mined and consumed.

 

In the U.S., the population in 1860 was 31,443,321, 76,212,168 in 1900 and 92,228,496 in 1910. In 2006, the total population for the states of NY (19,306,183), TX (23,507,783), CA (36,457,549) and FL (18,090,000) alone exceed the number of people that lived in this country in 1910.

 

Of the current U.S. population of nearly 300 million -- more than 300 times the number of people here in 1910 -- 9 million households still heat with fuel oil.

 

In 1920, there were 9 million cars in the U.S. Of the current population nearly 8 of every 10 people own a car on a per capita basis. That totals about 240-250 million vehicles that consume more than 400 MILLION gals. of gas EACH DAY. In China, there are 30 million cars, and the world-wide total is over 600 million. These figures do not include heavy trucks, buses or other fossil-fueled engines used daily that include millions of lawn mowers, compressors, concrete mixers, leaf blowers, lawn edgers, small generators, etc.

 

 

-TONY

[.270]

i'm gonna hafta dig into my files and come up with the particulars, but here's some facts to ponder. this past winter, 07/08, is the coldest in decades. just read that the other day, but it wasn't widely reported. the guy who owns the weather channel said it. the coldest decade in the 20th century was the 90's. the warmest was the 30's. the sun is hotter now than at any time since we've been able to measure it. scientific evidence proves that earth has gone through dozens of mini-ice ages and warming periods in the past, oh, 20,000 years. a group of real sicientists who don't depend on gov't grants for research, like the guy who owns the weather channel and the guy the gov't hires to predict hurricanes and a buncha other real authorities had a big conference in nyc 3 weeks ago to talk about the globabl warming BS and nobody reported on it. the same guy that really started the global warming deal (no it wasn't al gore. sorry kids) tried like heck to get folks to buy into globabl cooling and an impending ice age, in the late 60's and early 70's. i remember all the media about it. same guy, but it never sold and after we sent up the first space shuttle and could see a hole in the ozone layer and it was automatically blamed on hair spray propellant and freon, he got folks, especially the clinton bunch, to buy into it and now it is gospel. even thought they are trying to base billions of years of weather and trends on about 25 years of data. the govt' has flat out said to folks who depend on gov't grants to buy into global warming or lose their money. al gores movie has at least 10 "lies" in it that have been proven in british court. the hundreds of presently active volcanos put out more greenhouse gases than all of industry, every year. the pollution put out making the batteries for hybrid cars is about 20 times more than can be expected to be saved by driving a hybrid car, in it's life. canada is in a real quandry about what to do with the millions of gallons of contaminated waste they have after manufacturing said batterys. electricity produced with nuclear energy is the safest, cleanest, most efficient form of power. a solar cell will have to be in service for 50 years to cover the pollution it took to create the cell. no matter what the size. solar power is cool if that's the only way of getting juice, but it ain't a good deal for the envornment. and, now this is no bull, listen to what i'm gonna tell ya, WE LIVE IN A DESERT, WE ARE ALWAYS IN A DROUGHT, EVEN IF WE GET "NORMAL" RAINFALL FOR A YEAR, IT IS ALWAYS HOT HERE 9 MONTHS OUT OF THE YEAR, AND WE NEVER GET ENOUGH RAIN!!!! don't drink the koolaid fellers. real live weather scientists are real adamant about this global warming bull. most of them think in less than 20 years, we'll see a turn the other way and it will be cooler for awhile. folks are making big bucks off of this lie. and it is a lie. Lark.

[Outdoor Writer]

Lark,

 

It appears you attempted to counter "my facts to ponder," by making a huge assumption that I believe my "facts" somehow relate to a cause for global warming. If that's what you did, you misassumed. Those facts were meant to merely disprove the implication that what occurred during the Industrial Revolution was somehow worse than what has taken place since then. It didn't even come close. Thus, anything "healing" since then is pretty much farfetched; the only thing that has happened is that everything has gotten consistently worse by a factor of a 100 times or more.

 

Does any of it have an effect on either global warming or coooling? Depends on the scientists you read. But I sure know one thing: those big black clouds over every major city in the world cannot be good for people or the environment. In fact, for a lot of people who already have breathing problems, breathing that s....t is worse than drinking the Koolaid. -TONY

[SilentButDeadly]

i'm gonna hafta dig into my files and come up with the particulars, but here's some facts to ponder. this past winter, 07/08, is the coldest in decades. just read that the other day, but it wasn't widely reported. the guy who owns the weather channel said it. the coldest decade in the 20th century was the 90's. the warmest was the 30's. the sun is hotter now than at any time since we've been able to measure it. scientific evidence proves that earth has gone through dozens of mini-ice ages and warming periods in the past, oh, 20,000 years. a group of real sicientists who don't depend on gov't grants for research, like the guy who owns the weather channel and the guy the gov't hires to predict hurricanes and a buncha other real authorities had a big conference in nyc 3 weeks ago to talk about the globabl warming BS and nobody reported on it. the same guy that really started the global warming deal (no it wasn't al gore. sorry kids) tried like heck to get folks to buy into globabl cooling and an impending ice age, in the late 60's and early 70's. i remember all the media about it. same guy, but it never sold and after we sent up the first space shuttle and could see a hole in the ozone layer and it was automatically blamed on hair spray propellant and freon, he got folks, especially the clinton bunch, to buy into it and now it is gospel. even thought they are trying to base billions of years of weather and trends on about 25 years of data. the govt' has flat out said to folks who depend on gov't grants to buy into global warming or lose their money. al gores movie has at least 10 "lies" in it that have been proven in british court. the hundreds of presently active volcanos put out more greenhouse gases than all of industry, every year. the pollution put out making the batteries for hybrid cars is about 20 times more than can be expected to be saved by driving a hybrid car, in it's life. canada is in a real quandry about what to do with the millions of gallons of contaminated waste they have after manufacturing said batterys. electricity produced with nuclear energy is the safest, cleanest, most efficient form of power. a solar cell will have to be in service for 50 years to cover the pollution it took to create the cell. no matter what the size. solar power is cool if that's the only way of getting juice, but it ain't a good deal for the envornment. and, now this is no bull, listen to what i'm gonna tell ya, WE LIVE IN A DESERT, WE ARE ALWAYS IN A DROUGHT, EVEN IF WE GET "NORMAL" RAINFALL FOR A YEAR, IT IS ALWAYS HOT HERE 9 MONTHS OUT OF THE YEAR, AND WE NEVER GET ENOUGH RAIN!!!! don't drink the koolaid fellers. real live weather scientists are real adamant about this global warming bull. most of them think in less than 20 years, we'll see a turn the other way and it will be cooler for awhile. folks are making big bucks off of this lie. and it is a lie. Lark.

 

I'll try and break this down,

 

Lark is right about some of this stuff, but let me fix the ones I think he is wrong on:

 

This winter (07-08) was the coldest since 2001, but is still slightly warmer than the 20th century average: http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2008/2...13_coolest.html

An interesting side note - yet to unfold - is how long it takes the snow packs to melt off this spring.

 

According to the IPCC the 1990s were the warmest on record not the coldest: http://www.ipcc.ch/ipccreports/tar/vol4/en...wg1figspm-1.htm

 

The sun is brighter, but here is a link to a figure showing all the different forcings that we think effect climate, you can decide for yourself: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Climate...Attribution.png

 

Yes, there is lots of evidence of past climate change, warmer and colder, so why is it so hard for people to accept that it is getting warmer right now even if people aren't causing it?

 

Scientists who depend upon research grants are objective in their work, and they get the grants because other people are interested in finding out what the answers are to the questions they want to ask. People who work for vested interests (such as the oil and gas companies) that might be at risk to law changes that curtail their business are objective, but not always... It is analogous to working for a cigarette company who is fighting tobacco legislation because it *might* cause cancer. Also, consider that if you aggregate ALL climate change scientists, the amount of money they receive to do this research is in the MILLIONS of dollars, while the energy lobby is a TRILLION dollar a year industry - who has more at stake? where would you put your dollars if your business *might* be found to be the greatest threat humanity has ever encountered?

 

Al Gore did lie, but the message is still the same, global warming is real,

 

Volcanoes produce ~145-250 MILLION TONS of CO2 a year, humans produce ~30 BILLION TONS, http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/Hazards/What/VolGas/volgas.html

 

It would take all of the oil in the world to make enough solar panels to power the world, solar is NOT the answer to our energy problems,

 

I make money (an hourly wage, not even a salary) to study this stuff - so maybe I'm biased, but I'm trying my best not to be.

 

Tyson

[.270]

the stuff i read about the big anti global warming deal a couple weeks ago is where they said the 90's were the coolest decade in the 20th century. and the 30's, during the big dustbowl was the warmest, no matter what the 90's were.

 

whether we are warmer, cooler, or the same, right now, depends on who is supplying the data. there is a big difference in the 2 camps. so it's whoever a guy wants to believe. i prefer to not believe much al gore or any of his friends want me to believe. i could be wrong a few things, but i ain't wrong when i say al gore and his pals are liars. not just about global warming either. they lie to suit themselves.

 

my whole problem with global boils down to 2 things. 1. the guy that started has been looking for a profitable cause and finally found one. 2. you can't base what these same scientists say is billions of years of history, on a couple decades. not even a century. remember the kyoto accord? the one bush axed. one of the smartest things he's done. all it said was that modern countries, like us, great britain, germany, france, etc. would decrease their emissions so that 3rd world polluters could put out even more than they already did. the united states is the cleanest place on earth. our power plants and other industrial facilities are light years ahead of any 3rd world country. so are our cars, trucks, trains, planes, etc. i read awhile back that new American automobiles' exhaust is nearly as clean as the air they suck in the filter. that's how efficient they are. total combustion of gasoline has one emmission. water.

 

mother nature puts out more "greenhouse" gases than industry. forest fires, volcanos, peat bogs, animal flatulence (hog farts to the folks in AJ), rotting logs, human breath, etc. everything that releases co2 does. and guess what, everything alive gives off co2. folks are making billions off of this scare. and i'm convinced it is a scare. we may be a fraction of a degree warmer than in past centuries. but simple tree ring studies show that there have been some real warm, dry times in the past. can ya say anazazi? ain't that why scientists say they moved off and faded away?

 

don't listen to the crap. these folks have the same agenda as the far left endangered species fanatics, the far left gun control fanatics, the far left school fanatics, far left wetlands fanatics, etc, etc. they want to control you. you aren't smart enough to make up your own mind. what they say is the truth and if you don't believe it, they'll punish until you do. look at what obama said this past weekend when he didn't think anyone was recording it. he said that because that is how these folks feel. the "typical" person isn't intelligent enough to make a decision and they need the govt' to make em for em. that's how elite folks think. sift through it and figure out what is true and what is just more greenhouse gas. don't drink the koolaid. just because a politician or even a buncha scientists say so, don't make it so. there are plenty credible folks that say different. folks that i tent to believe. it's become politically correct to buy into it. well, i ain't never been or ever will be politically correct. but i try like heck to be correct. like cherbornik, said "good thing we don't step in it". Lark.

[Guest 300ultramag.]

I rollerskate to work! its down hill both ways.

I also figured out prepetual motion. The biggest word i know is

Antidisestablishmentarianism! That one word is like some 30 letters long.

 

All useless facts, i know kind of like this thread, USELESS.

 

If u google this thread, like u google all the facts about Global Warming i think it brings up the definition of a (RETARD)

 

Thats funny that he called u guys retards. Global Warming is real! Just ask Chuck Norris

[4Falls]

I rollerskate to work! its down hill both ways.

I also figured out prepetual motion. The biggest word i know is

Antidisestablishmentarianism! That one word is like some 30 letters long.

 

All useless facts, i know kind of like this thread, USELESS.

 

If u google this thread, like u google all the facts about Global Warming i think it brings up the definition of a (RETARD)

 

Thats funny that he called u guys retards. Global Warming is real! Just ask Chuck Norris

 

 

You've got to be the only guy in Happy Jack who even owns skates. Bet you're pretty popular.

[.270]

retard is ok. usually when a guy who has nothing to stand on starts to name call it's always "nazi". Lark.

[DesertBull]

Maybe if Gore and Hillary held their breath for a few years, we could solve the CO2 problem?

[wetmule]

http://www.greeleytrib.com/article/2008040...ADERS/365808976

[KGAINES]

Well for all the people out there that believe that global warming is going to end the world, what is the solution, kill all the people, seems to me that when you listen to gore that is who he blames, for someone so opposed to a big military and nuclear weapons he is fighting the inevitable world war three will eliminate billions of people thus saving the world, I wonder if michael moore will make a movie about that, maybe he will advocate mass suicides to save the world. Do we need to eliminate houses and move back into caves again, all forms of travel except for animals again, we need to eliminate all medical advances and just let people die when they are sick again, lets get back to the day when the average lifespan was maybe forty again. I think I will take what we have now and progress, maybe we will get lucky in this century if some Einstein type comes along and has all the answers we all have questions for, that is as long as we don't discount him for an idiot or retard, since he don't go along with what the masses believe.

[.270]

wetmule, great article. all you fellers read it and read any other "true" article about this farce. weather changes all the time. and that is what are we are seeing. a change in the weather. no big catastrophe, just a change in the weather. don't drink the koolaid. think for yourself. Lark.

[.270]

here's another interesting one. Lark.

 

http://www.jacksonholenews.com/print.php?a...47&pid=news

[azyoung]

Another link - So who are you to you believe? I don’t think 99% of all scientists agree that we are experiencing man made global warmming.

 

 

http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/Arti...004/global.html

 

If they want us to believe all this hype then they should utilize a more believable spokesperson – Al Gore is not a believable person or has a very honest track record

 

azyoung