long long distance shooting

[billrquimby]

The .308 Winchester would not be my choice for 1,000-yard shooting. I'd rather have something like a .300 Weatherby, .300 Win. Mag., .375 H&H, .416 Weatherby, or one of the hot Lazeronis of .30 caliber or larger. A .50 caliber would be the ultimate if I didn't have to shoot it off my shoulder.

 

In the late 1960s, early 1970s a friend and I used to compete in the metalicas siluetas matches every weekend during the winter in Sonora. The matches were 20 rounds -- five each at undersize 1/2-inch steel cutouts of chickens (200 meters), javelinas (300 meters), turkeys (400 meters), and bighorn sheep (500 meters). Everything was fired offhand with no sling or shooting coat allowed. Rifles had to conform to rules designed to make sure competitors used regular hunting rifles and not heavy-barreled target rifles.

 

I reloaded and fired 75 to 100 rounds a week and spent and hour each day dry-firing my old Harry Lawson thumbhole .270 Win. until I burned out its barrel, but I did win a championship my second year of shooting.

 

Hitting the javelina targets at 300 meters offhand was my specialty and I knocked down all five targets quite a few times. The sheep at 500 meters were awfully tough to hit, but I managed to knock down one or two nearly every match. Hitting 50% of the 20 targets usually guaranteed a win.

 

I used a 6X Lyman Alaskan scope (anything more powerful was not allowed because it would not be a "hunting scope). and knew exactly how many clicks were needed for each range. I adjusted my trigger to 2 pounds, the minimum allowed.

 

The .308 eventually became the "standard" for metallic silhouette shooting when the sport eventually reached the USA == but it was because it had less recoil than most other calibers that were large enough to knock down the 400- and 500- yard targets. A .257 or .243 didn't have enough punch at those distances.

 

Bill

[Rembrant]

I think y'all ought to be real men like Lark and drop out of trees with a Bowie knife in your mouth.

Now that's huntin'!

Mike

[.270]

if i aint' mistaken, the reason they use the lowly .308 at them 1000 meter matches (meters is the deal now. not yards. yards ain't commie enough for the rest o' the world) is because that's the rules. most of this long range stuff is done with military rules and military ammo. the .308 is also know as the 7.65 NATO. as the .223 is known as the 5.56 NATO. 7.65 and 5.56 denoting the metric designation of the diameter. NATO means north atlantic treaty organization. another sorta U.N. outfit. they all adopted these rounds as their standards so when they got in a fight with the commies they'd all have the same ammo. that's a big reason the U.S. went to the 9mm for a sidearm and dropped the .45 acp. so they'd fit with the rest of em. at matches the ammo is usually provided. i mean folks use all kindsa different cartridges for target shooting, but there are like dozens of different classes to shoot it. but snipers and other folks all use the .308 now because it is the standard. used to the '06. know what .30/'06 means? .30 caliber, 1906 version. there is a rifle called a springfield '03/A3. it originally shot a rimmed cartridge called a .30/'03. exact same cartridge as the '06 only it had a rim like a .30/30. they changed it to rimless because it worked a lot better in a bolt action thataway. the .308 is a sawed off '06. don't know for sure why the military went to the .308, from the '06. i think it was before the NATO deal started. but anyway they did. maybe it works better in an auto. the .308 is a very accurate cartridge. velocity and all that don't mean much, because you know exactly how far you're shooting and you elevate for it. just because a gun shoots real fast don't mean the guy holding it can shoot good. it's all in the man. when you're shooting at 1000 meters and have your gun dialed in, a good shot should be able to do pretty well. the difference between the winner and the other guys is very little. as far as shooting game, do whatever ya want. i prefer getting close but have taken some animals at some rediculous ranges. farthest i even connected on a shot was 686 yds. at a running muley buck. biggest desert buck i ever shot. i was trying my best to hit him, but figured i didn't have a prayer. when he rolled over i honestly thought he musta tripped. hit him in the heart. a year later i went back with a range finder, found my brass and shot the lazer across the canyon. 686 yds. shot a coyote once that had to be close to that, but don't know for sure. anything inside o' 500 i shoot with the rifle backwards over my shoulder and sight through a mirror. don't ever sell a .308 or an '06 short. there's lotsa dead commies that did. and there's some guys like Carlos Hathcock and another guy named Mawhinney that could prove ya real wrong. Lark.

[muskrat]

Maybe some of you have seen this promo video...

 

http://www.thebestofthewest.net/7minPromo.wmv

[firstcoueswas80]

Mike, the above mentioned rifle is also a custom built rifle chambered in 270wsm. it pushes 140 accubonds at about 3200. my smallest 3 shot whole form 100 is .336" it is an accurate rifle and i have a good leupold scope on it.

[az4life]

I was watching a TV show last night (NCIS) with some related info.

 

There was a sniper situation involved and the main character (Mark Harmon) was supposed to be a military sniper some years earlier before becoming an NCIS agent.

 

Through the dialog, they made the point that the .308 is the most popular rifle round ever and that it is a favorite among snipers. Shooting 1 inch groups at 600 meters was quite easy for trained snipers.

 

Back to my point, Long Range shooting is interesting and somewhat of an art. That art is achieved with lots and lots of practice. It does not come easy in time, materials or efforts.

 

Using all of your abilities while hunting is to be expected, but if you have not practiced A LOT and become proficient, at long range shooting, do not expect that miracle shot when you have buck fever. I truly respect and admire those who have this ability! I do not consider my own ability of "sniper" quality and my fear in discussions like this, is that some amateur or novice will sight in at 100yds with 2 inch groupings and expect to be able to shoot a buck at 600 yards just because someone else has done it.

 

We all have limits to our distance shooting, and should always try to stalk to within that limit attempting to create the best opportunity to make a clean kill. I might max out at 400 yards in good conditions but lots of wind, poor light with no rifle rest and poor footing could change that to 200 yards in some cases.

 

Long distance shooting also creates problems with knowing what is beyond your target. A 400 yard shot across a canyon to a target on the ridge provides you no definite safe backstop.

 

Bottom Line, practice practice practice Know your limits and don't take low percentage shots because they are LOW PERCENTAGE.

 

Stay Safe while I put my soapbox away.

[More D]

Great topic and even better reading!

 

Some great points brought up by all.

 

Mine was last year at 406 yards, exactly 6 yards past my self emposed limit. The mulie was too pretty and bigger than I had ever taken before. My practicing at the turkeys in 3-points paid off. I did forget to account for the "light wind". In the end I did get him and am very proud of him because I prepaired and practiced for it.

I will say that every thing I have taken before has been at less than 100 yards.

 

 

 

 

 

I have a question Lark: When was the .270 introduced?

 

 

 

 

[trufletch]

My longest was 2 years ago at a coues, 362 yards with a 270 Remington action, laid into a composite stock with a Leupold VXIII 3.5X10 and handloads. I felt comfortable with the shot and dropped where he stood. Don't know that I would want to take a shot any further than that though. the deer looked about the size of a groundhog. Shoot the distances you are comfortable with and can be reasonably assured of a quick, clean kill. Say what you want about the 308, but several years ago I had the opportunity to train with US Army Ranger snipers at Fort Bening(?) and man can they make those 308's sing. I got to see them shoot at 1000 yards and watched them routinely shoot shirt buttons on mannequins at over 750 yards. Most of those guys have been operational al over the world and know their weapons and equipment inside out. You can have the best equipment in the world, fastest, flat shooting cartridge the world has ever seen, and if you don't practice, practice, practice, you will never do it justice. Practice with your chosen weapon, be intimately familiar with your equipment and know everythings limitations(especially your own) and the hunt will go fine. I feel the hunt starts at 500 yards. I always try to get as close as I can, minimizes those bad shots and keeps me from wounding an animal. Once again, just my 2 cents.

 

trufletch

[.270]

mored, 1925, when winchester introduced the model 54. Lark.

[Guest Reynaldo de la Torre]

I was talking to a guy the other day at a gunstore here in town he was buying brass to reload 308 shells. he was saying it is accurate at roughly 1000 yards (dont know his exact setup) but wondering how possible that really is? thats about 3/4 of a mile if my math is right. whats the longest shot any of you guys have ever taken with accurcy?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

The 308 has been used by military snipers for years. Yes 1000 yards baby!

I made a shot 3 years ago with a .243 that was 500 yards with no scope. Yes there wil be guys who say "not". But I've been using my 243 for 20 + years.

It is the longest I have ever attempted - but conditions were right and I have lots of experience with my Remington. There is a new breed of hunters who buy BIG rifles and learn how to shoot them and shoot deer so far that they don't even know that anyone is around. Anybody can do that. My dad 87 yrs old made lots of long shots with is 30-06 (no scope) in his day. Experience!

[az4life]

Here is a new Twist.

 

Maybe the AZGFD should have a "Slot Hunt" for Big game. Sort of like the trout restrictions where you toss back anything under a foot and over a 18inches.

 

Might be interesting. It certainly would encourage more practice at longer shots.

 

I can see it now, We could see hunters stalking AWAY from deer, complaining that they have to get another 150 yards away so they are legal.

 

Maybe the Slot limit could be for selected calibers. 30/30 has to be within 150 yards and a 300 win mag has to be 300 yards out to 700 yards.

 

Okay, well ya never know what is on the way in the AZGFD minds.

[az4life]

Maybe some of you have seen this promo video...

 

http://www.thebestofthewest.net/7minPromo.wmv

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Looked the clip over and one point they basically said, all it take si money to get the equipment to see it and shoot it.

 

one of those shots was 1078 yards? You gotta be kidding! Might as well sit on your porch in AZ and pop a whitetail buck in TX. Hey I think they do that now!

[muskrat]

Regarding snipers - I spent 13 years in the Canadian Military (yes, we have one!) For a long time, our snipers also used 7.62mm. Now, the snipers use a .50 cal McMillan as their long range weapon, and have just selected the .338 Lapua as their medium range sniper rifle. A Cdn Sniper Det broke the combat kill record, while supporting US troops in Op Anaconda a couple of years ago... 2430 metres

 

Regarding the video above... my concern with taking shots that long would be the animal moving.. that's a pretty long time-of-flight on that round, relatively speaking. Seems a lot could happen between trigger break and impact...

[Guest Ernesto C]

Each and one of us should know our own limitations..............What is ok for some maybe not ok for others.I will be one of the guys that say "no" to a 500 yard shot with a 243 at a deer. If I'm target practicing well.........yea maybe just to see where I'll hit.

 

If you know your gun well,if you know you can hit a deer at 350,400 or more yards,if you feel confident that you can make that shot,go for it!

I will do that only as the last resort,like the last day the last hour.....maybe.

 

I personally will not shot over 450 yards,why? cause if I try I will be guessing and I'm not sure if I can hit that deer..........I will need to pratice,practice and pratice more if I want to make a 500 yard or more shot.

I wont hesitate taking taking a 450 yard shot with my trusty and legendary Remington 700 in 30-06 caliber.

A couple of years ago while antelope hunting in Wyoming I was truly blessed by the Lord with two antelope in a row.There were two antelope at 400 plus yards,I got on a prone position using my bipod and drop the first one,the other one run about 10 yards or so and stop...........aim for that one too,shot and drop like a ton of bricks.Thank you God.

 

Like I said.....know your rifle and know what you are capable to do.Good and happy hunting everyone.....God bless.

 

Ernesto C

 

Unload guns when not in use

[KGAINES]

if i aint' mistaken, the reason they use the lowly .308 at them 1000 meter matches (meters is the deal now.  not yards.  yards ain't commie enough for the rest o' the world) is because that's the rules.  most of this long range stuff is done with military rules and military ammo.  the .308 is also know as the 7.65 NATO.  as the .223 is known as the 5.56 NATO.  7.65 and 5.56 denoting the metric designation of the diameter.  NATO means north atlantic treaty organization.  another sorta U.N. outfit.  they all adopted these rounds as their standards so when they got in a fight with the commies they'd all have the same ammo.  that's a big reason the U.S. went to the 9mm for a sidearm and dropped the .45 acp.  so they'd fit with the rest of em.  at matches the ammo is usually provided.  i mean folks use all kindsa different cartridges for target shooting, but there are like dozens of different classes to shoot it.  but snipers and other folks all use the .308 now because it is the standard.  used to the '06.  know what .30/'06 means?  .30 caliber, 1906 version.  there is a rifle called a springfield '03/A3.  it originally shot a rimmed cartridge called a .30/'03.  exact same cartridge as the '06 only it had a rim like a .30/30.  they changed it to rimless because it worked a lot better in a bolt action thataway.  the .308 is a sawed off '06.  don't know for sure why the military went to the .308, from the '06.  i think it was before the NATO deal started.  but anyway they did.  maybe it works better in an auto.  the .308 is a very accurate cartridge.  velocity and all that don't mean much, because you know exactly how far you're shooting and you elevate for it.  just because a gun shoots real fast don't mean the guy holding it can shoot good.  it's all in the man.  when you're shooting at 1000 meters and have your gun dialed in, a good shot should be able to do pretty well.  the difference between the winner and the other guys is very little.  as far as shooting game, do whatever ya want.  i prefer getting close but have taken some animals at some rediculous ranges.  farthest i even connected on a shot was 686 yds.  at a running muley buck.  biggest desert buck i ever shot.  i was trying my best to hit him, but figured i didn't have a prayer.  when he rolled over i honestly thought he musta tripped.  hit him in the heart.  a year later i went back with a range finder, found my brass and shot the lazer across the canyon.  686 yds.  shot a coyote once that had to be close to that,  but don't know for sure.  anything inside o' 500 i shoot with the rifle backwards over my shoulder and sight through a mirror.  don't ever sell a .308 or an '06 short.  there's lotsa dead commies that did.  and there's some guys like Carlos Hathcock and another guy named Mawhinney that could prove ya real wrong.  Lark.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

http://www.marinescoutsniper.com/sniper%20pages/Carlos.html

I read both books written on him, I would hate to be a bad guy with him out there, and if he would have had some of todays improvements he would have been even better. That is a good article on him and some of his opinions on shooting.