Teachers and Guns

[Non-Typical Solutions]

I wanted to do a poll on this just because I am curious but did not feel comfortable setting that up.

 

What do you think?

 

AZ bill 2656 would allow schools the option of having trained teachers with weapons on campus.

 

Other states are trying to put similar bills into action.

 

One problem I worry about is 3 day training, is that really enough training?

 

Also, is the gun locker for storage after hours, or is that where the gun is kept in case of emergency? If it is locked up then why have a gun there in the first place?

 

AEA, the teachers union strongly opposes the bill, but I don't belong to any union and rarely have sided on the side of AEA anyway.

 

I am all in favor of being proactive and think there has to be a solution.

 

I volunteered to my boss to go through training the day after the latest school shooting, figured teachers packing was going to be a hot issue as soon as I heard about the shooting.

[Coues79]

I'm a parent and I would love to have several teachers on campus packing concealed. Heaven for bid my children are in the school like sitting ducks hoping that the police get there in time.

 

I think overall, it needs to come down to each district making the decision. You may have 95% of the community that backs the measure; why not allow it then. You may have 95% of a district that doesn't want it happening. Why force it on them then? Allow for the option in the law and let the local levels decide, followed by a rigorous training with levels of assessments that have to be passed in order for a person to be held reliable.

 

If the gun is locked up what is the freaking purpose then? Sometimes people are plain ignorant and don't have a clue.

[THE RIFLEMAN]

Remember the "Rule of 21" when it comes to self defense! If your gun/weapon is holstered,sheathed or in your pocket/purse an attacker with a knife in hand starting from 21 feet away can close the distance and kill you before you can draw and defend!!

Having a gun locked up in a gun safe is pretty usless!

On this topic people who carry concealed or otherwise for defense usually do so with an empty chamber or even a totally empty gun - Just as useles as a gun locked in a safe!!!

LOCKED , COCKED & READY TO ROCK IS THE ONLY WAY TO CARRY FIREARMS FOR SELF DEFENSE!!!

1911 style guns with the dual safety feature is my preferred CCW pistol!

[Snapshot]

COnsidering our current public schools systems are full of liberals, it make me wonder where the "Teachers Packing guns" thing is going to go. I would much sooner see a higly trained armed guard on campus, that has two way radio communication with all staff and teachers. Maybe teachers with Tasers? Who knows? With current school closures and an over budget school system, I doubt if they could afford an armed guard per school.....of coarse unless they raise school taxes to pay for it.

 

I would be concerned with scenarios of kids with disfunctional families, and one day "Little Billy" brings his Dad's handgun to school in his backpack.

 

A gun is only as good as the person carrying it. When the SHTF, somebody who can control their emotions, and go into defense mode, without panic, would be an asset. Are teachers capable of that? Maybe some.

[firstcoueswas80]

I love the idea but three days is nothing!

[Coues79]

COnsidering our current public schools systems are full of liberals, it make me wonder where the "Teachers Packing guns" thing is going to go. I would much sooner see a higly trained armed guard on campus, that has two way radio communication with all staff and teachers. Maybe teachers with Tasers? Who knows? With current school closures and an over budget school system, I doubt if they could afford an armed guard per school.....of coarse unless they raise school taxes to pay for it.

 

I would be concerned with scenarios of kids with disfunctional families, and one day "Little Billy" brings his Dad's handgun to school in his backpack.

 

A gun is only as good as the person carrying it. When the SHTF, somebody who can control their emotions, and go into defense mode, without panic, would be an asset. Are teachers capable of that? Maybe some.

I can see your point but let's not over generalize all teachers being liberal and incapable of handling that situation. Again, local levels should be making the criterion and selecting who is capable of doing this. Effective training will be essential.

[TwoGuns]

As a high school teacher, I would have some serious hesitations about this. Teachers already face more scrutiny and liability than just about everyone but police.

 

I think this is sorta a lose lose situation. Most likely damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

I don't know what the right answer to this problem, but if it comes down to arming teachers as a first line of defense...sign me up.

 

 

[Pine Donkey]

This topic is very complex, yet so often, the proposed solutions are just quick fix ideas. There is no quick fix to the potential of mass violence in a public school, nor is there any solution that is a "pretty" fix. Arming some staff members might be part of a solution, but many other steps need to be taken. A couple decades ago state governments, forced by federal legislation and precedence set through law suits, began to scale back the State mental systems and pushed many of those onto the public education system. The education system is ot designed or equipted to handle these patients, so they are passed on into society. Fear of law suits, privacy acts, and evaluation systems, punish schools that do not follow this approach. Our government has failed to enforce existing gun laws. All the while our society has continually looked for areas to place blame...bad childhood, poverty, ethnicity, social structure...rather than acknowledge that evil exists in our world and sometimes evil people attack our children.

 

When one of the horrific situations happen, things have already gone bad. People are going to be wounded and die. At that point there is no way to make it OK, the goal must be to eliminate the threat, and that is done by killing the shooter.

 

The training that one must go through to be prepared to run toward the shooting, step past dead and dying, and confront the shooter goes far beyond a three day course. Many who are drawn to the teaching profession, especially elementary education, have a compassionate, personality that is better suited to lending aid than mounting a counter attack. The type of personality needed to protect students is also vastly different than the average CCW person.

 

Arming a staff member is not about self defense, it is about protection of others. Those are two greatly different things. Lessons have been learned through previous shootings. Law enforcement officials now realize that not all officers are able to perform as needed in an active shooter type of situation. Years of training have taught the officers to secure the site, and get reinforcement before moving in. This was the initial tactic at Columbine High...it did not work. The shooters continued to kill while plans were made. Active shooter training takes a different approach, one that is based on first on scene is the first to enter to eliminate the threat.

 

I have spent many years working alongside teachers. A few of them might be good candidates to carry a gun in school, others might be trained to be competent, yet many others should never be considered. On my staff we have a sheriff deputy who retired after a career of service, but still works part time for the department. This teacher can legally carry on campus. We have another former deputy who is a maintenance worker. These, along with our JROTC instructors may be good candidates for this type if program.

 

The biggest benefit of this type of legislation might not be the armed teacher themself, but rather the image that is created. Currently schools are "gun free zones". That is just an invitation to evil doers. By allowing local districts to choose if they want to participate in ths program, that image can be changed. Once the Governing Board votes to join the program, a sign is placed on the front gate the states "This School Participates in the Armed Staff Program". If staff members are armed, their identity needs to be kept concealed. Those individuals also must also be placed in strategic locations around campus.

 

Student safety is something that I live everyday. It will never matter to a loving parent, how good the teachers are, how successful the athletic program is, how nice the facilities are, if their child is not safe.

 

Sorry for the long post, but this is not a simple solution subject.

[firstcoueswas80]

This is, in no way shape it form meant to be an attack in any teacher but.....

 

Flight or fight is what the basis for protection/defense is. Your brain only registers those two reactions.... Knowing as many teachers as i do, most of them would hide in the closet before they engaged a bad guy. In my opinion, this reaction can not be trained into, or out of a person.

[Pine Donkey]

I agree Casey, fight or flight is a big part of it, but even when a teacher has the fight instinct, there is much more needed. 24 hours of training does not make a "fighter" a competent person in a horrific situation. There is so much more to it.

[Non-Typical Solutions]

_{I am about 3 years from retiring from teaching. I would love to go through training as part of a program to help schools be better prepared.}

 

_{I like the idea that people out there know that schools are not going to stand in the corner and get gunned down. I have always argued with my administration about our lockdown procedures. Mainly because of what happened in Newtown.}

_{Teachers definitely get alot dumped on their plate like Pine Donkey said and as Casey said.....there are few teachers I would even think about putting in that situation, but at my school there are at least two that I would trust and put a gun in their hand....after proper training.}

_{I would really worry about my wifes school......honestly she would be the one I would trust there, but to ask her to charge at a crazy killer, even I don't want her doing that.}

 

_{Tough tough deal, not to be taken lightly and what a burden to worry about. Our kids are having to grow up in a messed up world.}

[THE RIFLEMAN]

The USA is falling way behind in education .... Is this due to to the teachers or the students? I hear of kids graduating from high school and still not being able to read and write!

If this is an indication of how well a teacher can learn then 3 days of training in firearms self defense is about all any of these slouches could handle!!!!

[JLW]

officers at road construction sights is ok but not ok in our schools? WTH!

I would want someone that is PROPERLY trained... not some 3 day lamo!

 

 

James

[PelaPapas]

I am all for teachers to carry. My opinion is that training needs to be alot more than just 3 days! There should be an extensive training course, then every so often a "refresher" course. Just my .2 cents.

[Non-Typical Solutions]

I probably watch too many Die Hard movies.....but isn't there some way to neutralize a situation......stun grenade, mace bomb.....something that would cause havoc for the intruder??

 

 

As for the teachers in our country just like any other profession there are good ones and bad ones.

 

As Pine Donkey said earlier, society has dropped a mess in the lap of the teacher and our educational system has allowed itself to get backed into a corner.

 

When teaching spanish became a priority over teaching math and english...........

When not hurting Johnny's feelings by holding him back.........

No child left behind...........

Discipline was taken away from the teacher..........

Un ending list of the demise of our educational system.....

 

And honestly, are you going to get the best people out there with the huge pay teachers get????

 

I still think there are enough good teachers out there that would be willing to take on the task of arming themselves somehow in order to protect their students..................