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My advice will be that if we want to talk/discuss about what's right or what's wrong we should start a topic about that some where else; not here and jack up the success of a great man/hunter that contributes a lot to widlife. It's called common sense, respect etc.

 

Thank You.

 

Ernesto C

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Congrats on a great hunt and getting to experience a great time with some great guys!!!

 

 

I am going to start a new topic in the campfire right now regarding the nonsense that is taking place in here.

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Haha I'm not sure what dischin the hunt means but if you mean that I am saying I don't agree with outfitters shooting females then yeah I guess I'm "dischin" it again. Apparently you can't read or chose not to read anything I wrote. I congratulated him on the hunt and stated my opinion that I feel an outfitter letting someone shoot a female is wrong. I guess you boys don't like opinions that aren't the same as yours? So YES I am telling you to shut your mouth :) not sure where you were going with the coyote/dead horse thing? Horrible analogy. . .did you come up with that one all by yourself? Not gonna waste my time PM'ing you old timer. You obviously don't read well or have a hard time understanding that people have opinions different than yours. I'll stop "dischin" now haha

 

Quote " I guess you boys don't like opinions that aren't the same as yours? "

 

Some times we need to apply to ourselves the advice we give to others.

 

Ernesto C

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Congrats to the hunter... what an awesome adventure and lion. Doesnt matter male or female. A downed lion is a good lion. Dont let the immaturity of one forum member bring down the awesomeness of your hunt.

 

I'm not surprised that a 22yr old punk kid is mouthing off on this forum about what he thinks is right or wrong just because he's been on a few lion hunts. Eventually he'll come to realize... maybe 10yrs from now with a bit of maturity.. that there is a time and place for debating certain things. Harvesting a lion is a once and a lifetime opportunity for most of us and I bet most of us would take that chance male or fem. Bonecollector... whether you're right or wrong, you need to chill out. You do your thing and everyone else will do their thing. You dont need to hijack a thread and start a debate over something so stupid as killing a male or female... or over any little thing you disagree with...Whether lions kill 150k deer or 5k deer or antelope just realize this hunter is within his rights.... so why ruin his moment..? Over and over you're on this forum mouth'n off. Trust me when I say someday you'll look back at your attitude and regret it... Or if you fail to learn on your own someone will put you in check i promise.

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Goodness people are you blind? Or just choosing to not read what I posted? I NEVER once went after the hunter or said he did anything wrong. From the very beginning I stated it was sad to see OUTFITTERS killing females because they are the ones that know better. And in other posts I said I couldn't blame him being excited if he was paying for the hunt and had the opportunity to kill a lion. I didn't post anything here to bash the hunter. I posted it here in Groundnpounds forum stating my opinion that killing females is wrong and then here comes the big bad old timers to the rescue pissed off that I disagree with something that they don't. Then it turns into this. Go back and read my second post on this subject and see if there was anything there that was uncalled for or wrong to say. I straight up said we aren't going to agree. I stated the facts from AZGFD and how I thought they were wrong and that was that. Then once people start coming back with comments such as Rifleman acting tough that's when I usually like to throw in a few smart remarks because I know it will make them mad. Which obviously it did.

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I just wish we could still shoot coues does...... ;) Them days are long gone and wont ever come back.

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Congratulations AZ Ground Pounders for helping out a cwt member on an awesome hunt. That was a very nice lion Matthew shot and my congratulations to him as well. Thanks for be a sponsor here on cwt and I look forward to seeing more of your success stories. Thanks for sharing and welcome aboard. :)

 

TJ

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It was in unit 24A (Rifleman) which I believe is one of the top two units in the state for desert sheep as far as the number of large rams killed each year and the number of sheep within the unit. Actually during my hunt we didn't know at the shot but in case it was a female I asked the question. I just want to tell a few little back stories, on subject of the amount of lions people see and that being correlated to the population number. For lions, lion sighings is not even considered in the estimation of the number of lions in a unit. The experience I have with this is in trapping. It is not lions but Bobcats. I have seen fewer Bobcats in the wild than I have seen mountain lions to this day (that doesn't include seeing them in a trap). In an area about a 1,000 square feet on private ground next to the Gila River TomGobbler (forum handle) and I trapped 24 Bobcats in a month in 5 leg hold traps in a 1,000 square foot area in one months time.If you don't believe me he has pictures. I drive by the area at all times during the day about 5 times a week and have never seen a Bobcat in that area. So sightings have no bearing as far as population goes. The second story is over a 10 year period. When I got out of college and came back to Yuma 14 years ago, I met a great family at church that were desert sheep nuts. I would go out with them in 2001, 2002 to the Kofas every chance I got. We would see sheep everywhere. We made camp in the bottom of Burro Canyon one trip and at last light as I was starting a fire I had multiple monster rams come skyline themselves to look and see what I was doing. They taught me about all of these sheep and showed me tons of them, on average seeing 50+ sheep on average in a 1 1/2 day trip. They also hunted monster muleys in the Kofas with some 180" bucks on there walls and scouting with them there were tons of quality bucks in the Kofas.. In 2003 I hiked 2 miles one way to a tank to set a trail camera. We waited 3 weeks and I hiked back to see what we had on it. To my surprise we had a buck that I sent the picture to Dwayne Adams and he said it was a 200" buck. We hunted him and the 10 other good bucks that lived around the tank during rifle season and Bow season, killing one nice high 170's buck. The next season we were so pumped to see how big our big buck had gotten. I hiked in again the next year. The area was very green and the same water hole had the same amount of water with it being 105-110 the deer in the past would visit that tank usually once every day or two. Well when I went to retrieve the camera 3 weeks later, this being 2004 I believe, the next year expecting to see the huge selection of big bucks, all that had come in for that previous 3 weeks was a single doe and 30 minutes behind her was a mature nice sized lion. Well the next 8 years of battling with the feds trying to tell them the lions were taking a huge toll on the deer and sheep we finally got them to agree when they looked at the 2001 estimated population of sheep that was way over a 1,000 animals and they had been transplanting sheep to unit 22 and 24A years prior to 2001. Then they looked at the 2009 estimates which were under 200 animals and 2010 I believe their survey in one of the units they did not see one sheep. Which concerned them greatly so they caught and collard lions to see if in fact they were the cause. Every lion caught became an offending lion after it killed 10 sheep.or deer. Most of the collard lions would reach the offending point within 2 months and would be removed when they went off the refuge. Since then they have taken a ton of lions out of the three units and the population of deer and sheep has come back up to around 400 sheep this last survey despite the low amount of precipitation. My point is If you went out today into a new area and saw tons of monster sheep and deer every where you looked and hunted deer there and new you had a chance everyday of killing a monster passing up 160" bucks all the time and seeing sheep every where you went and 10 years from now you went to hunt deer in your favorite spots and you hunted for 6 days and saw one doe and did not see a single sheep during the trip it would make you angry to find out the reason for this was almost all because of lions even though you never saw one in the unit. It would leave a bad taste in your mouth for lions. When you pull a stripped spinal cord connected to a 180" magnificent Desert Kofa Ram out of a Palo Verde that had been covered by a lion and had lion tracks all around it is not a moment that will make you love them lions trust me. That is the problem we are having is we are not seeing lions so we think they are not there or are in low numbers until populations of other game animals start taking a huge nose dive and by the time the research is done to figure out lions are the cause it is to late. I was 22 once and thought I knew a lot but the last 12 years since I was 22 has taught me that back then when I thought I knew it all I didn't and I will freely admit I know only a little more since then and know nothing compared to older hunters that have a ton of time under their belt being out in the desert or forest that will tell you something that you have not seen with your own eyes but disagree with them because one of your friends read something or talked to the Game Wardens brother or it is the new thing to do, you may want to take a step back and put your ego aside and listen to them because theey are telling you from first hand experience. I know now that I really don't know that much despite spending thousands of hours hunting and scouting the different units in this state. The only way to know truthfully that something is right or wrong in this situation is to see it for yourself or talk to people that are experts in that certain field that have seen it all and to take information and form your own opinion.I have no bad feelings at all but this is exactly why I didn't post the story myself. I see lots of things on here that I disagree with but unless it is someone asking for your opinion just keep your fingers off of the key board when you have negative thoughts about a thread that is just congratulating an individual for something he has done that he or a friend wants to share with other friends on here. I know you will have a HaHa retort but if you have any respect you would just say congrats man thats a pretty lion and leave it at that..

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Last thing the outfitter didn't shoot the lion I did. It's my tag and thats the lion I wanted. If you are a good outfitter you advise people what you think they should do but you never tell them what they can and can't do with their own tag as long as it is legal.

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Anyways this is all about The AZ Ground Pounders. I talked to them yesterday and they had treed one nice Tom and two females the last 5 days and had to let the nice Tom go because of no clients. I am telling you now is the time to get that lion you have always wanted and these guys have the record and the dogs to get it done the right way and you will have one of the best hunting adventures you have ever experienced. What better way to spend your 2012 tax refund. :) These guys are great people and have great skills that they want to prove to anyone. I guarantee if you do a hunt with these guys you will never regret it. You will leave witha great trophy and a few new friends. Thanks AZGP for everything, I am still pumped up when I talk about it. Now I just need to figure out how to speed Clay up by 6 months to get the mount back :D

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Great lion Mathew! I can assure you, with a lion I missed years ago, and any future lion I see; I am shooting not looking for balls!

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Matthew,

Even though we have never met I've always appreciated your posts and this one is no different. Class act for sure and I respect the way you have handled the situation. Congratulations on a dang nice lion.

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We will meet someday soon and the feeling is mutual. Thanks

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I'm only gonna say kudos to bonecollector if he is a houndsman that at the young age of 22 he already respects his sport to stick up for what he believes. I know plenty of lion hunters that are twice his age that kill any lion that trees. This argument is obviously not going to go over well on a site dedicated to coues deer but his facts on deer numbers and kills are hard to argue with. The issue is you have these outfitters that brag how they never kill females but as soon as they catch one with a client. Boom. If they were in the snow then they knew it was a female and shouldn't have dumped out on it if they really didn't want to kill a female. I also blame it on the outfitters not the hunter.

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