Question on Match Grade and Ballistic Tip (Accuracy)

[Stallone A.]

I have had much success shooting Nosler BTHP 175gr and Black Hills BTHP 165 Match Grade Bullets on targets up to 800 yards. My groups at 100yards are average quarter MOA. At 300 yards my groups find the same success. At 500 to 600 yards I am hitting steel plates 24X24. I have tested out many bullets in my rifle, Nosler Ballistic Tip 165gr Hornady Superperformance match168gr A-max and inter bond and the list goes on and on. For some reason I can not seem to find a bullet that shoots as accurate as the BTHP match grade bullets. It seems that when I shoot the ballistic tip bullets my accuracy goes to crap even at short ranges. The bullet seems to be flying way right and I have to keep changing my windage frequently. I am shooting a Remington 700 SPS .308 tactical 1:10 twist. Its bedded in a Mcmillan Stock. Does anyone have any suggestions on a hunting bullet I can use that will give me the same success as my Match Grade Bullets.

 

 

Thanks

[STOMP442]

Bullets differ dimensionally and by association fly differently. Different bearing surface lengths vary velocity which in turn changes harmonics. lots of things to consider. You say you are trying different bullets but are you changing your powder charges or adjusting seating depth with bullet changes. Each bullet you try will need to be tuned to your rifle, you may need to adjust powder charges a half grain our seating depth a couple thousandths to find the sweet spot again.

[Stallone A.]

  On 11/23/2014 at 5:42 PM, STOMP442 said:

Bullets differ dimensionally and by association fly differently. Different bearing surface lengths vary velocity which in turn changes harmonics. lots of things to consider. You say you are trying different bullets but are you changing your powder charges or adjusting seating depth with bullet changes. Each bullet you try will need to be tuned to your rifle, you may need to adjust powder charges a half grain our seating depth a couple thousandths to find the sweet spot again.

All loads are factory loads. Sorry for any miscommunication .

[rcdinaz]

Federal Premium uses a Sierra Game King which is the hunting bullet version of their match bullet.

 

Also try the HSM 168gr loads with Berger VLD's, or Remington Hog Hammer with Barnes TSX bullets. None of those are ballistic tips so they may get you what you want for a hunting bullet.

[lancetkenyon]

If the match bullets hit where you want, why not use them for hunting? I use Sierra Match Kings and Berger Target or Hybrids in a lot of different guns for hunting, and will be next week for elk with my daughter shooting. They have taken everything from rabbits, to javelina, to deer to elk. They have all performed flawlessly. Putting the bullet in the engine room is what will get you game. A HPBT match bullet should work just fine on a .308 at reasonable distances.

 

It doesn't matter what type of bullet you are using if you can't hit the game.

[308Nut]

You say your accuracy goes to crap. Can you elaborate? You're use to .25 MOA and .75 MOA can seem like crap after being spoiled.

 

Most bullet weights won't hit the same poi as other loads. This is normal.

 

I've had very inconsistent results with most 'match' bullets so I am a fan of 'hunting' bullets. The exception is the AMAX. Their labeled as match bullets and indeed they are scary consistent and accurate. Their reloading manual had stated in the past that they're suitable for thin skinned game such as deer. I've found that to be very true.

 

If you can reload, I recommend tuning loads to your rifle. If not, try more options. 'Match ammo' makers have making 308 match ammo down to a fine science. Hunting ammo not so much. I'd start with hornady 168 and 178 match ammo. By that I mean their standard match and not 'superformance'.

[HuntHarder]

First time I think I have disagreed with something Lancetkenyon has said. I would never use a match bullet for hunting. Berger does not recommend it, nor does most any other manufacturer. Reason is, they do not expand like a hunting bullet. Sure if you hit an animal in the lungs and or heart, it will die quick, but in the event you do not, the damage will be minimal. I do not like to plan for a bad shot, but in all reality, it happens, and you should take steps to ensure a humane kill.

 

The Berger VLD hunting bullets are great, and IMO shoot very close to their non hunting versions. HSM loads them commercially, and I have heard nothing good about them. Another option is to see if one of the reloaders on here is willing to help you get started in reloading. Huge advantage when you start shooting long range.

[DesertBull]

The match bullets will kill dead as stone. Just because the box does not say "hunting" does not mean it is not effective.
Thousands and thousands of animals have been killed with a SMK, Amax, Berger Hybrid, etc.

 

Hit a deer / elk in the guts with a "hunting" bullet or a "match" bullet. Makes no difference, its still a gut shot.

[lancetkenyon]

  On 11/23/2014 at 8:03 PM, HuntHarder said:

First time I think I have disagreed with something Lancetkenyon has said. I would never use a match bullet for hunting. Berger does not recommend it, nor does most any other manufacturer. Reason is, they do not expand like a hunting bullet. Sure if you hit an animal in the lungs and or heart, it will die quick, but in the event you do not, the damage will be minimal. I do not like to plan for a bad shot, but in all reality, it happens, and you should take steps to ensure a humane kill.

 

The Berger VLD hunting bullets are great, and IMO shoot very close to their non hunting versions. HSM loads them commercially, and I have heard nothing good about them. Another option is to see if one of the reloaders on here is willing to help you get started in reloading. Huge advantage when you start shooting long range.

I have no problem with people who disagree with me. I am just going upon my own observations and experience.

 

Here are a couple great threads on the subject of hunting with match bullets. Beware, gory photos in these threads.

http://snipershide.scout.com/forums/5538-hunt-fish/13277896-new-post-your-match-bullet-kill-thread?s=541

http://forum.snipershide.info/showthread.php?t=106997

[HuntHarder]

Yeah, no doubt they will kill animals, just not the preferred tool for the job. Same principal of why FMJ ammo designed for military use is not legal for hunting or why LEO's carry hollow points instead of match target ammo. All will get the job done, if the shooter does theirs'. I did notice in your picture of that nice muley, you say you used Berger VLD hunting. Nice Buck!

 

The thicker jackets on match bullets are just not ideal for hunting in my opinion.

[5guyshunting]

  On 11/23/2014 at 11:18 PM, lancetkenyon said:

 

  On 11/23/2014 at 8:03 PM, HuntHarder said:

First time I think I have disagreed with something Lancetkenyon has said. I would never use a match bullet for hunting. Berger does not recommend it, nor does most any other manufacturer. Reason is, they do not expand like a hunting bullet. Sure if you hit an animal in the lungs and or heart, it will die quick, but in the event you do not, the damage will be minimal. I do not like to plan for a bad shot, but in all reality, it happens, and you should take steps to ensure a humane kill. The Berger VLD hunting bullets are great, and IMO shoot very close to their non hunting versions. HSM loads them commercially, and I have heard nothing good about them. Another option is to see if one of the reloaders on here is willing to help you get started in reloading. Huge advantage when you start shooting long range.

I have no problem with people who disagree with me. I am just going upon my own observations and experience.Here are a couple great threads on the subject of hunting with match bullets. Beware, gory photos in these threads.http://snipershide.scout.com/forums/5538-hunt-fish/13277896-new-post-your-match-bullet-kill-thread?s=541http://forum.snipershide.info/showthread.php?t=106997

 

I am so offended and scarred for life after those gory photos.

 

 

 

Just joking , good link. Thanks.

[STOMP442]

Hard to find factory ammo that gives consistent results in any rifle. sometimes people get lucky but that's why most serious shooters end up making their own to fit their needs and find what the rifle likes. I agree with lance though put the bullet in the right spot and you wont have any problems. If that match ammo shoots as good as you claim and reloading is out of the question then stick with what works.

[pwrguy]

I love the Amax for deer. 2 deer last year 1 antelope this year. Devastating wound channel that left no doubt of the outcome with a shot in or close to the vitals. The deer were at 580 and 620 yards, the antelope was at 300. I would most likely choose another bullet for anything larger than a deer, but hard to beat the consistency and price of the amax for hunting or target.

[lancetkenyon]

The loads we are taking this week for my daughter's elk hunt vary a bit. Depending on shot distance, and that the primary gun will have nothing happen to it, she will be shooting a .300RUM w. 175 SMK at 3361fps. I KNOW it is extremely accurate out to 1370 yards, as we were shooting today. We will limit out shots to absolutely no further than 850 though. Still travelling at 1835fps and retains 1300+ft/lbs at the approximate elevation and weather conditions we should be shooting in. And she can hit at that distance all day long.

 

The backup rifle will be my .25-06 Ackley with a 115 Berger VLD hunting. I will have no problem letting her shoot to 800 with that also. Should still be going about 2015fps & retain around 1035ft/lbs. I have no fear that combo would do the trick on an elk.

[Stallone A.]

Thanks everybody for all your info. I did not want to make this a battle discussion ( I apologize).

I have used a 300 ultra mag for about 10 years and I just switched over to the .308

I had always used Remington 180gr scirocco bonded power level III bullets and never had to worry about anything.

They alway shot well and have harvested many deer with this round.

I just wanted to test out my new rifle that I have been shooting for a year now and gets its first coues under its belt.

I have been only shooting BTHP ammo out of this gun and have not shot anything else.

I bought 6 boxes of different hunting ammo to test out and nothing has made me feel confident enough to harvest an animal at long range.

 

I may have to take old faithful on this years hunt and do some more testing on the .308

 

Thanks for all the replies.