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ATTENTION UNIT 23 LOVERS!

Many of you know what a great resource Unit 23 is for hunting game such as Elk, Muleys, and Coues. Some of you might even enjoy the fisheries in the unit. In 2007 a local ranch was purchased by a new entity who now seeks to expand the cattle operation by 4 times what was allowed since 1979. Including into an area that the Forest Service had completely closed to grazing back in 1979.

Despite what you might have heard about cattle water tanks, any benefit they might provide is outweighed by their direct competition with with deer and elk for the limited forage and browse. Regretfully, this was clearly demonstrated in the Forest Service’s own studies done on this precise Allotment back in the 70s and 80s when their studies showed that the cattle (in smaller numbers than are now proposed for by the current ranch owner) denuded the forest so badly that Elk had left the Naegelin Rim entirely.

The deer and elk know where the springs and seeps are. If you want to help preserve Unit 23 from being overgrazed then you can visit our website at Rimneighbors.org. Check out our website and send your comments into the Forest Service. These comments are due by July 23. We do not ask for donations, nor do we get paid to do this in any way. The only payment we get is the possibility of a healthy and diverse ecosystem under the Rim so we can continue to enjoy all the hunting seasons to the fullest. I really hope that you will take the time to look at our website. Not all land is created equal. Cattle ranching is proper in some areas and improper in others. We are not against ranching. We are against overgrazing to the detriment of wildlife resources. The science is on our side. This is not a proper area for the numbers now being sought.

Don’t believe us? Read about the Forest Service findings in the 70s and 80s. Their studies are on the “Documents” page of our website. All of the claims made in our synopses and summaries found on our website are cites directly from those studies. This is a serious threat to many game species and all riparian areas in this allotment. I guarantee what you read will shock you. I am a hunter, and I care about wildlife and the health and diversity of this ecosystem.

We need all of the voices we can get. Sorry there isn’t much time left to comment but getting all this together has taken time and this is not how any of us involved make our living. Again, our website is Rimneighbors.org

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I hate running into cattle on hunts and with all the attention Unit 23 gets on forums and podcasts, etc, adding more cattle seems like the last thing the unit needs.

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  Suspect Rimneighbors.org is a wanna be CBD.   Being your group is so concerned about an application to open a grazing allotment, what is your stance on feral horses on the rim ............

Cattle grazing is a controlled process, USFS generally is very protective of critical habitat (especially allotments that have been retired).  If all the info your site identifies is true, the forest service will not approve increased grazing. 

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22 minutes ago, Swivelhead said:

  Suspect Rimneighbors.org is a wanna be CBD.   Being your group is so concerned about an application to open a grazing allotment, what is your stance on feral horses on the rim ............

Cattle grazing is a controlled process, USFS generally is very protective of critical habitat (especially allotments that have been retired).  If all the info your site identifies is true, the forest service will not approve increased grazing. 

Pay attention to what is happening at the Federal Government right now.  They are getting rid of the scientist's jobs who help to direct policy to protect sensitive eco resources.  The current administration is working behind the scenes to eliminate our protections and do just what the O.P. described,  They are moving the headquarters from D.C. to Colorado.  This is going to get ugly for sportsman if it goes unchecked.

Part of the problem is neither political party opposes these moves. Both parties are funded by interests who covet getting their grubby fingers on the vast wealth in resources of the west.  It's up to local people to resist because it'll fly under the radar of national media.  Wall Street drools looking at what we have out here like a hungry Doberman staring at a juicy steak.

Oh' and I grew up on a ranch so it's not like I am against ranching.  

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I am betting swivel is close to correct.

these groups always complain the sky is falling and that  they are hunters and fishermen, but yet you never see them give there name in full or even partially on there own website.

so who are these clowns?

 

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I have heard the cattle are destroying the planet pitch for years. All I have to say is how many of you elk hunters sit waterholes put in by cattlemen? Or how many water sources in the desert  units are kept and maintained by cattlemen?  I hunt many areas where the only water sources are from cattlemen. I agree that there can be an over grazing problem in places but give me a break. If not for cattle there would be much less game in many areas.

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1 hour ago, Swivelhead said:

  Suspect Rimneighbors.org is a wanna be CBD.   Being your group is so concerned about an application to open a grazing allotment, what is your stance on feral horses on the rim ............

Cattle grazing is a controlled process, USFS generally is very protective of critical habitat (especially allotments that have been retired).  If all the info your site identifies is true, the forest service will not approve increased grazing. 

Ha, I can promise you that we have zero aspirations in becoming the next CBD. The group of us working on this is very small and this has sucked up enough time of ours as it is. If you visit our website you will see that we only involve ourselves with Unit 23 and this one Allotment. We concerned ourselves with it because it is where we hunt and recreate. Upon noticing a sudden spike in cattle numbers in the area and seeing them in places where there previously were none, we sent out some FOIA requests to the Forest Service and discovered that the active permits and regulations were not being followed as they should have been. We saw that the number of cattle they now propose is larger than the previous amount they allowed for (in the 70s) on this very same allotment that the Forest Service had demonstrated caused significant harm to the environment and quantity of game animals in the allotment. Since they weren't following proper procedure with regard to reintroduction and and cattle number increases, we decided to form this organization for this one specific purpose of making sure there was a voice to speak for the hunters, fisherman and other recreationists. All information on our website is true and cited obsessively. The information from the Forest Service Studies is readily available to you on the "Documents" page of our website for purposes of validation. 

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31 minutes ago, Delw said:

I am betting swivel is close to correct.

these groups always complain the sky is falling and that  they are hunters and fishermen, but yet you never see them give there name in full or even partially on there own website.

so who are these clowns?

 

My name is Nick Dillenburg. I stand by what I say. We are only concerned about Unit 23 and the elk and deer being driven out by an overabundance of cattle. I'd be happy to have discourse with you after you've educated yourself on the subject and read the Forest Service studies that were performed on this allotment. Funny, don't seem to see your name anywhere.

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22 minutes ago, Rim Neighbor said:

My name is Nick Dillenburg. I stand by what I say. We are only concerned about Unit 23 and the elk and deer being driven out by an overabundance of cattle. I'd be happy to have discourse with you after you've educated yourself on the subject and read the Forest Service studies that were performed on this allotment. Funny, don't seem to see your name anywhere.

Great Another f'n lawyer with a Cause and you wonder why people are skeptical.

you didnt look to hard then

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58 minutes ago, Rim Neighbor said:

Ha, I can promise you that we have zero aspirations in becoming the next CBD. The group of us working on this is very small and this has sucked up enough time of ours as it is. If you visit our website you will see that we only involve ourselves with Unit 23 and this one Allotment. We concerned ourselves with it because it is where we hunt and recreate. Upon noticing a sudden spike in cattle numbers in the area and seeing them in places where there previously were none, we sent out some FOIA requests to the Forest Service and discovered that the active permits and regulations were not being followed as they should have been. We saw that the number of cattle they now propose is larger than the previous amount they allowed for (in the 70s) on this very same allotment that the Forest Service had demonstrated caused significant harm to the environment and quantity of game animals in the allotment. Since they weren't following proper procedure with regard to reintroduction and and cattle number increases, we decided to form this organization for this one specific purpose of making sure there was a voice to speak for the hunters, fisherman and other recreationists. All information on our website is true and cited obsessively. The information from the Forest Service Studies is readily available to you on the "Documents" page of our website for purposes of validation. 

If this statement is true why not go full CBD on them and sue all the way up to the 9th circuit?  BTW, it won't be long and you'll be A$$ deep in feral horses in 23.  That will be uncontrolled grazing without any way to remediate.  Might as well let the cows have at it.  At least we can eat them.

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1 hour ago, creed said:

I have heard the cattle are destroying the planet pitch for years. All I have to say is how many of you elk hunters sit waterholes put in by cattlemen? Or how many water sources in the desert  units are kept and maintained by cattlemen?  I hunt many areas where the only water sources are from cattlemen. I agree that there can be an over grazing problem in places but give me a break. If not for cattle there would be much less game in many areas.

He is talking about a spot in 23n where there are not a lot of cattleman’s water tanks but more natural springs and creeks. He also said they are not against cattle.....

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