otc changes--> increase in trophy quality?

[MrBojangles]

WIll any of the otc changes lead to changes in increase trophy quality in some units? I'm kinda stuck in no mans land. 7pts non res originally wanted to do a once in a lifetime kaibab early rifle when i started but fighting an uphill battle with declining herd health, point creep and a large increase in non res applying for kaibab/strip. Could be limited by geography, but wondering if the elimination of some of the otc hunts could lead to eventually to other units becoming consistent trophy units (180+) that could be worth exploring? would be nice to be ahead of the curve when that happens.

[NOTAGS]

Save your money, don’t apply.  Our quality sucks now, apply for Utah.

[couzhtr]

Burn the points on a coues hunt and apply in Utah or Nevada for mulies 

[MrBojangles]

4 hours ago, NOTAGS said:

Save your money, don’t apply.  Our quality sucks now, apply for Utah.

eh i like supporting arizona wildlife

[creed_az_88]

Otc changes will have very little effect on trophy quality. Removing otc all together would also have very little effect on trophy quality in most places. 

[trphyhntr]

9 hours ago, creed_az_88 said:

Otc changes will have very little effect on trophy quality. Removing otc all together would also have very little effect on trophy quality in most places. 

elaborate 

[CouesFanatic]

Cutting out a few hunts will always increase trophy quality. More bucks get older.

[Sneaker]

I think your expectations need to be adjusted by alot. Unless you have a month to scout or live in the unit and are there all the time year after year or have a friend that does, no non-premium unit would a non-guided hunter be able to "expect" to find or kill a deer over 180. They are just very rare. They are there, but they are few, even a very good hard hunting out of state hunter would have to just get very lucky to even find one in say 10 days. Alot of places don't even have that kind of genetics/nutrients and there are too many rifle tags in all these general units for almost any buck to even get old enough to see that size. As most people probably do on here , I consider myself a very good hunter, and have probably only seen maybe 4 bucks truly 180 class or above south of the grand canyon in my whole life, and I've glassed and hiked and hunted and ran cameras in AZ ALOT in my life. I agree OTC archery changes hardly will affect what type of bucks the rifle guys could expect to see. If you would be happy with say 160, you could at least have a fighting chance of finding one if you are an all-in hunter on a general unit here.

[Markleo21377]

I have to echo what sneaker said. Some people throw 180” around like they are killed frequently. Even on the strip and kaibab the average deer checked is consistently below 180”. Of course the age class and genetics greatly increase your odds in those units though. I have seen plenty of deer in the desert units pushing 180 and sometimes even bigger. I had a friends dad kill a 203” desert Muley in a unit that non residents can draw with 4 points. Here is a buck killed by my buddies farm two days ago that hits the magic mark. Unit can be drawn by nonresident with 4 points. 
 

OTC units will naturally get a bit better when you get rid of some stress from the ridiculous amount of hunters in the field.
 

Those desert hunts are a grind and we spend a bunch of time to turn them up. If you decide to burn points on a hunt south of the ditch hit me up and we can give yah some assistance. Sincerely, Mark

[trphyhntr]

 

do you guy remember that kid that killed the velvet buck last year saying it was 180 and got really mad when people said it wasn’t. What happened to that guy and official score he was gonna get 

[Markleo21377]

Here’s a buck my buddy killed on his ranch in Colorado couple weeks ago….this is 178” and shows how big a deer has to be to hit 180”

[trphyhntr]

There’s plenty of 180s and near 180s in the otc units. I think this year is gonna be the best since I’ve been paying attention 

[6AYoteHunter]

Our mule deer herd took a pretty big hit the last couple years. One of the mule deer herds near my house dropped from 32 to only 5 survivors. Coues herd went from 28 to 2 in the same spot. It will take years to bounce back. Ask the guides this year. Dwuane Adams said most difficult hunt in 40+ years. My Dad said he has never seen it this bad. Areas that got hit the worse had higher populations of cats. If you find pockets that the cats missed then good bucks can be found. Don't expect to find a 180 class mule deer anywhere in the next few years. Dwuane's entire camp never saw that class deer and they have killed more 200+" deer than anyone. 

[6AYoteHunter]

What you should try to chase is 160-170" mule deer in southern units near excellent water sources or a 100+" coues. There are still enough of them around to make it a possibility. 

[creed]

I have seen way to many 180 bucks turn 160 when they hit the ground. 25 years ago I expected to see a 200" buck during the otc hunts. Then it became 180. Now a 160 buck is a really good buck. I think that drought and predators are the biggest reason why. On one ranch I hunt the old rancher was a cat killing fanatic. Deer herds were good. He sold and the next guy had the attitude that cats were  part of the environment and he wouldn't hunt them. Deer population and quality took a big hit.

Throw in habitat loss, people everywhere during the winter months and no help from G&F and the deer herds are in the shape they are in now. I have been helping family with their rifle hunts and noticed fawn survival is horrible. Doesn't say much for what the future holds.