G&F Deer survey coming out soon

[TREESTANDMAN]

I see no reason to shorten the archery seasons. In December/ January the # of deer taken by archery equipment is very low in comparison to the rifle hunts. Normally the areas that bucks are taken from by archery hunters during the winter hunts are in the thicker pines/oaks where most rifle hunters avoid anyway due to the inability to glass effectively. This helps to balance out the buck population by area.

[Rembrant]

Well stated Desertbull and Couesn'sheep. Not to just roll over, but times have changed. There are just too many people in this state!

We could always count on drawing an early tag on a second or third choice in the past, and now we're lucky if we get an early tag on a first choice! I've been drawn once in the last 3 years for whitetail. I'm 49 years old, an Arizona native, and have hunted almost everything I've wanted, elk, deer, turkeys, for most of my life. Anybody that thinks the hunt structures can stay the same and still get drawn isn't living in reality. Those days are gone! Time to adjust.

Treestandman, you are absolutely correct. the bowhunt is worth fighting for, for the reasons you give. But guess what? That awesome timbered archery Coues hunt will be dicovered shortly and folks will be fighting over prime realestate like we used to over bear baits, Enjoy it while it lasts.

Mike

[rthrbhntng]

I would like all the sportsmen that read this thread to understand that this is not an "AZG&F" survey. This survey was created by the members of the ADA including Amanda to get the necessary information to take back to the Dept and Commission to let them know what the deer hunters on AZ want. The dept was involved with input on the wording and content of the questions. There will be a link to the survey just like the bowhunters survey but this is a sportsmen survey not AZG&F. All deer hunters in the state need to take this survey so that the ADA can present our case with hunter numbers backing the information. Sportsmen in AZ need to band together now more than ever. The commission has made it clear that those of us that go to the meetings are a minority and without your input we will have little impact on hunting issues in the future.

THIS IS YOUR CHANCE TO BE A UNITED GROUP AND BE HEARD ON THIS ISSUE. THOSE OF US THAT ARE IN THE TRENCHES FIGHTING NEED YOUR SUPPORT AND INPUT.

Steve Clark

AES, ADA, ABA, WCC, NWTF and more.

 

Join a group and make your voice (or at least your support) count.

[stanley]

I really hope that this survey will help get some more detailed information regarding what the majority of sportsman want. It's purpose is to try to get as much information regarding hunter's opinions as possible in front of the G&F for consideratin.

 

TREESTANDMAN mentioned that it is 'painfully obvious that the majority of sportsman want the hunt structure to stay the way it is', but at the ADA board meeting last month Leonard Ordway basically said that for every hunter that feels the way we do, that there are several more that are just as happy to just have a tag in their pocket. Desertbull said that almost everyone who puts in for the early hunts gets drawn, when in fact only about 20% of the early hunts had draw odds better than 80% for 1st & 2nd choice applicants in 2004. To me, these two opinions point out that it is VERY important for all of us to take the survey. We must ensure that all of our voices are heard!!!

 

Finally, rthrbhnting is correct; This survey is being driven by the ADA, and is simply a means by which we are trying to get more information into the departments hands.

 

No matter what your opinion is, please take the survey and give your opinion!

 

S.

 

[DesertBull]

There are also 16 W.T. hunts from 2004 that had 95% or better draw odds.

If you have taken the hunters safety coarse and applied for 5 consecutive years you should be able to draw an October or Nov tag with your 2-3 bonus points at least every other year.

 

You would be surprised at how many people still mess up their chances to draw a tag by putting 50% draw hunt as their first choice and a 10% as their second, third, fouth...!

 

Personally, all I would like to see them do is leave the central units December hunts alone. Those are the only late hunts we have left that we have a decent chance to draw on a regular basis.

 

Cutting the unit 33 December hunt, for example, from 50 tags to 25 and adding 100 tags in October, ain't going to do squat to improve draw odds in October by more than a few percentage points.

 

On the other hand, cutting the unit 22 December tags from 300 to 50 and adding an October hunt will make drawing the December hunt a fantasy. Might as well put in for the Kaibab mule deer hunt, the odds will be comparable. Yes, 200-300 more people will get to hunt in October.

 

For those that like the Oct/Nov hunts, there is already good opportunity. For those that like the Late hunts, the Central units are the last units left with decent draw odds.

[SunDevil]

I know a guy that has put 33 Oct as his second choice for the past 3 years and been skunked 3 years in a row. CB

[DesertBull]

Did he put a check in the envelope with his app?

 

[SunDevil]

(post moved to Jennifer Martin thread)

[Rembrant]

"The central units are the last units left with decent drawing odds".

 

I just looked at the 04 - 05 regulations' stats for the year before:

6A=24%; 6B/8=19%; 22=22%; 23=19%.

 

Hovering around 20%. That's a 1 in 5 chance. That means by the odds you will probably get drawn for one of these units 1 time in 5 years.

I've been drawn for one of these units 3 times in 10 years. I am way ahead of the odds. If the odds even out on me I'll get 1 permit in the next 10 years.

Like everyone else, I want to get drawn more than that.

And guess what? The odds will only get worse!

So whats the answer? There is no answer to this problem.

Give me an early tag. I'll take it.

Mike

[DesertBull]

No one is proposing taking away the early tags. There are thousands of them.

 

I'll take 20% odds on unit 22 as opposed to 5% on unit 33 December.

 

Like I said before, I have already convinced myself that early hunts are the only thing I will get to hunt again because I feel that they are going to make the changes no matter what, and like you, I won't wait the years and years it will take to get a tag. I'll take the tag, and be happy with it. I just think that it stinks that they can't leave a few of the units alone.

 

BTW, the "odds" that are printed in the back of the regs are very misleading. When they say that 20% drew unit XX, they are not taking into account the people that put unit XX as a second choice but drew their first choice. They need to break it down into to first choice applicants and second choice applicants.

[Red Rabbit]

I'd like to respectfully make a correction to a prior post: Desertbull said that almost everyone who puts in for the early hunts gets drawn, when in fact only about 20% of the early hunts had draw odds better than 80% for 1st & 2nd choice applicants in 2004.

 

In looking over the draw odds from 2004, there were 26 October and November whitetail hunts in the southern units 29-36. All of the October hunts and 8 of the 13 November hunts had draw odds above 80%, or at total of 81% of the early October and November hunts had 80%+ draw odds. 10 of those hunts had 100% draw odds!

 

Statewide in 2005, there were a total of 16,580 WT permits to be issued according to the regs. 6875 (41%) in October, 6900 (42%) in November, and 2805 (17%) in December.

 

For the Southern units 29-36, a total of 14,030 permits were to be given.

6400 (46%) in October, 6900 (49%) in November, and 730 (5%) in December.

 

"at the ADA board meeting last month Leonard Ordway basically said that for every hunter that feels the way we do, that there are several more that are just as happy to just have a tag in their pocket."

I wonder where Leonard Ordway got that number? I hope this survey puts the kabosh on the WT deer changes like the elk survey did to the propsed archery changes.

 

Doug~ RR

[Couesnut]

I have a ??? & some comments,

Where was this survey i never could find it ....DUHH....

I've bow hunted for 35 yrs. (not as much lately) & i don't get why some guys want to hunt WT in Dec. & compete with the gun hunts. Rarely is the rut going that early. Bow hunting has become so popular in the last 10 plus yrs. It's to crowed as it is.

Move it to ONLY Jan. when the rut is on, & Sept. when they are batchlerd up & can be patternd. Be happy with 2 months man!

I would love to see #22 Dec. tags reduced. I drew that tag a couple of yrs ago, & it was a cluster F*. Due to the Fire, Forest Serv. closers, Tons of rain, the close prox. to Phx. & the Bow season being open. Plus Recreationalist, Quads, Siteseers, Bikers,Hikers & Tweekers, There were crowds everywhere.

I could go on & on about the Quallity of deer hunting in AZ. these days....Too dang many YAHOOS". If the raised the price of a Dec. tag to 300.00$ it would be fine with me.

Coues deer have become very popular & the quallity has gone down hill.

I remember when there was over 100,000 deer tags & I rarely saw anyone in the field????????It seems like every Point. Tit & ridge has 4 guys glassing from it.

Allright I'm losing it ....To much Typing... Need a beer..

Thanks DH

[missedagain]

I had a 22 Dec. tag this year, I hunted 11 days and saw 1 other hunter off the road the whole time.

Why hunt the Dec. archery? Because it is an archers best and last chance to harvest a deer and still be able to apply in the next drawing.

For those who say they would rather just have a mediocre (at best) tag then wait for an exeptional tag then 32 and 33 early whitetail has 83% draw odds, 34a early =98% draw odds, 34b early = 100% draw odds.

Those that want just any tag already have good odds why ruin (even more) the odds for those that would rather wait for an exceptional tag.

[TREESTANDMAN]

I have a ??? & some comments,

Where was this survey i never could find it ....DUHH....

I've bow hunted for 35 yrs. (not as much lately) & i don't get why some guys want to hunt WT in Dec. & compete with the gun hunts. Rarely is the rut going that early. Bow hunting has become so popular in the last 10 plus yrs. It's to crowed as it is.

Move it to ONLY Jan. when the rut is on, & Sept. when they are batchlerd up & can be patternd.  Be happy with 2 months man!

I would love to see #22 Dec. tags reduced. I drew that tag a couple of yrs ago, & it was a cluster F*. Due to the Fire, Forest Serv. closers, Tons of rain,  the close prox. to Phx. & the Bow season being open. Plus Recreationalist, Quads, Siteseers, Bikers,Hikers & Tweekers, There were crowds everywhere.

I could go on & on about the Quallity of deer hunting in AZ. these days....Too dang many YAHOOS". If the raised the price of a Dec. tag to 300.00$ it would be fine with me.

Coues deer have become very popular & the quallity has gone down hill.

I remember when there was over 100,000 deer tags & I rarely saw anyone in the field????????It seems like every Point. Tit & ridge has 4 guys glassing from it.

Allright I'm losing it ....To much Typing... Need a beer..

Thanks DH

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Couesnut,

 

The scrape phase of the rut usually starts in late november from what I have found and just gets better until about the end of december. I prefer to archery hunt the last 2 weeks of december. The buck are always rutting that early. Most archery hunters do not compete w/ gun hunters during the december hunt anyway. I don't think I've ever seen a gun hunter up in the pines where I archery hunt. Even in the lower southern units there aren't enough december rifle tags to cause conflicts between archery hunters and gun hunters.

 

I've recieved several surveys from AZGFD by email.

 

I've found that typically the ridges and points that have hunters glassing from are close to roads. To avoid that you may want to try getting off the roads.

[CouesWhitetail]

Ok, guys the survey is up and live.

 

We will be running the survey until the commission meeting April 22.

 

If you feel you know enough about the proposal to vote, you can go do that. If you want to take more time to learn about it, feel free to do that also. We just need responses by mid-April.

 

Remember, you can only take the survey 1 time.

 

You can go vote anytime by visiting the Arizona Deer Association website

 

 

Amanda