archerycrazy Report post Posted January 12, 2012 I would like to thery every one that posted on this including John. John almost single handed kept this discussion going. This should send a very stong message to all organiztions and legislators. Don't bring any wildlife related legislation unless the Commission and Deprtment are fully involved in every aspect. A vague briefing doesn't cut the mustard. Every sportsmens organization and all or their members should be made aware of every thing that is in it. AZSFW has the resources available that should allow them to contact the leadership of all organizations. Some times it is even wise to contact the usual opponents. They may surprise you with some good ideas. You may even learn a little bit about their objections. It will cause us to craft stronger legislation. Better legislation will get support from both sides of the aisle. Just my thougts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rag Horn Report post Posted January 12, 2012 Regarding the costs of lobbyist. I am not sold on the idea legislation is the answer. Maybe enforcement of current legislation. I rarely think more laws help any situation. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bonuspointjohn Report post Posted January 13, 2012 Regarding the costs of lobbyist. I am not sold on the idea legislation is the answer. Maybe enforcement of current legislation. I rarely think more laws help any situation. I was speaking about the legislation that we helped pass 2 years ago where we have the commission appointment review board. Prior to 1986, the Arizona Wildlife Federation submitted the names to the Governor. Then Governor Babbitt decided he wanted to name whoever he wanted. From that point on it was in control of the sitting governor. When Governor Nappy took over, we had the appointments of Jennifer Martin, Bill McLean, Bob Hernbrode, Robbie Woodhouse and Norm Freeman. The marching orders to the department from that group took a decidedly "green" approach. That simple piece of legislation, that the AZSFW ran with, guaranteed that whoever the governor appoints in the future will be with the blessing of a combined group of sportsmen who are on the review board. That group is required to give the governor no less than 2 names and no more I think than 5 names. Without that creative piece of legislation, whoever the governor will be in the future could name whoever they wanted, with whatever agenda they wanted. BPJ 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bonuspointjohn Report post Posted January 13, 2012 Are you serious? You first take credit for generating $3.5 million from the sale of our animals before you even do that then you try the scary tree hugger garbage to justify your existence. You have proven without a doubt that you cannot be trusted with our resources. Thank the Lord that I don't know what a good lobbyist costs. I simply pointed out that the AZSFW was the source for the bill which generated $3.5 million dollars from the general fund when times were good. At that time the commission of McLean and Golightly fought that move every inch of the way. There was no sale of animals, please re-read the posts for clarification. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThomC Report post Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) Are you serious? You first take credit for generating $3.5 million from the sale of our animals before you even do that then you try the scary tree hugger garbage to justify your existence. You have proven without a doubt that you cannot be trusted with our resources. Thank the Lord that I don't know what a good lobbyist costs. I simply pointed out that the AZSFW was the source for the bill which generated $3.5 million dollars from the general fund when times were good. At that time the commission of McLean and Golightly fought that move every inch of the way. There was no sale of animals, please re-read the posts for clarification. For me at this point bpj has zero creditability. So keep digging that hole. And when it gets done fill it with water, that will help wildlife. Actually I will fill it with water. You just dig. Edited January 13, 2012 by ThomC Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coach Report post Posted January 13, 2012 Wow, this has to be the most active thread ever on CWT. Glad to see so many people are taking an active interest in what's happening in our state. Great discussion and I'm glad to see it remaining civil. Personally, I'm very leary of any legislation that takes tags out of the general pool and makes them available via auction or yet a second lottery. The argument for these types of tags has historically been that they will raise more money for game management than if they were left in the general pool. My issues are: 1) Since the early days when there were only a couple of these tags, to today when there are many more, I'm sure there has been some money spent on pet projects, but I haven't seen a direct impact on any of the hunts the average hunter will ever encounter. It seems like an empty promise of how much better things will be once we generate more dollars by giving up more tags. The dollars have been generated and spent, but I don't see the results. 2) This particular legislation wants even more tags set aside for high-rollers and the occasional lucky schmuck who wins one in a raffle. The proposed benefit is a larger, better funded "Sportsman's Expo" which is supposed to benefit Phoenix businesses, and oh yeah, they'll try to gain more access to areas that are currently inaccessible due to private land issues, through the same negotiating techniques that have so far failed for AZGFD. I don't see a single benefit for the average AZ hunter by funding a "bigger, better" expo. And as for access to public lands that are currently land-locked, that same $200,000 wasted on a single lobbyist could bulldoze new roads right around a lot of private ranches into the land they are denying access to. But that's a last-ditch effort. We should be able to persuade the state to stop using public money to maintain any road that is blocked by private property. Essentially, we're all paying out the nose for someone's really long driveway. That's just wrong, and should be dealt with. Long story short, the G&F commissioners voted unanimously against this bill, and from what I've seen it has no better support from the hunting community. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bonuspointjohn Report post Posted January 13, 2012 Wow, this has to be the most active thread ever on CWT. Glad to see so many people are taking an active interest in what's happening in our state. Great discussion and I'm glad to see it remaining civil. Personally, I'm very leary of any legislation that takes tags out of the general pool and makes them available via auction or yet a second lottery. The argument for these types of tags has historically been that they will raise more money game management than if they were left in the general pool. My issues are: 1) Since the early days when there were only a couple of these tags, to today when there are many more, I'm sure there has been some money spent on pet projects, but I haven't seen a direct impact on any of the hunts the average hunter will ever encounter. It seems like an empty promise of how much better things will be once we generate more dollars by giving up more tags. The dollars have been generated and spent, but I don't see the results. 2) This particular legislation wants even more tags set aside for high-rollers and the occasional lucky schmuck who wins one in a raffle. The proposed benefit is a larger, better funded "Sportsman's Expo" which is supposed to benefit Phoenix businesses, and oh yeah, they'll try to gain more access to areas that are currently inaccessible due to private land issues, through the same negotiating techniques that have so far failed for AZGFD. I don't see a single benefit for the average AZ hunter by funding a "bigger, better" expo. And as for access to public lands that are currently land-locked, that same $200,000 wasted on a single lobbyist could bulldoze new roads right around a lot of private ranches into the land they are denying access to. But that's a last-ditch effort. We should be able to persuade the state to stop using public money to maintain any road that is blocked by private property. Essentially, we're all paying out the nose for someone's really long driveway. That's just wrong, and should be dealt with. Long story short, the G&F commissioners voted unanimously against this bill, and from what I've seen it has no better support from the hunting community. We agreed w/ Representative Weiers that sportsmen do not want any part of the bill, just attempting to clean up some inaccuracies, but that seems to be pointless. The AZSFW has done some good things.....but most of the comments refuse to even acknowledge that. Best of luck to all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
.270 Report post Posted January 13, 2012 am i the only one that bpj reminds of bagdad bob? while the whole country is gettin' blown up and saddam is in hiding and his statue is gettin' knocked over by a tank he's out there talkin' about how the republican guard has the Americans on the run. the good guys won, the bad guys lost. deal with it. and i don't think the treehuggers really care. the only thing i worry about is what is the board member who doesn't make anything of this outfit who's wife make hunnders o' thousands o' bucks offa the deal is gonna do for a job now? and what are the 4 or 5 guides that are on the board, that doesn't have any guides on it, gonna do with all the money they ain't gonna make offa this deal now? hope nobody bought a new truck already. poor guys. maybe obama will bail em out. ok, right this minute i am starting a "conservation" club. everbody is a member but it don't cost nothin' and we don't do nothin'. but, we will nost waste any money payin' a board member's ol' lady to lobby somethin' that will go down in flames either. so everbody gets to keep their tags and it don't cost nothin'. the amount o' cash wasted on this deal coulda really done some good, somewhere. but the only folks that made anything off it are the lobbyist and poor rich guys didn't get their tags. what a deal. Lark. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
glasmup Report post Posted January 13, 2012 GREAT JOB to all those who wrote emails and made some phone calls to stop this!!! Proud to be a hunter in AZ today!! WE have lots of issues to complain about but to see this get shot down this quick shows we can get our poop in a group and get something done!!!!! Now maybe we should boycott certain businesses that are owned and ran by certain fellers that have now shown their true colors!!! BYE BYE OUTDOORSMANS!!!!!! I will never buy anything from you guys again....... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AZLance Report post Posted January 13, 2012 Dammit Lark, I was trying to run on the treadmill and read the newest post, when I read your last post. Well needless to say, I almost had a serious accident, luckily I was able to hit the stop button just as I was flying off the back of the treadmill!!!! BAGHDAD BOB???? SERIOUSLY? That has to be one of the funniest things I have ever read... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AZBULLHUNTER Report post Posted January 13, 2012 GREAT JOB to all those who wrote emails and made some phone calls to stop this!!! Proud to be a hunter in AZ today!! WE have lots of issues to complain about but to see this get shot down this quick shows we can get our poop in a group and get something done!!!!! Now maybe we should boycott certain businesses that are owned and ran by certain fellers that have now shown their true colors!!! BYE BYE OUTDOORSMANS!!!!!! I will never buy anything from you guys again....... No more outdoorsman for me either 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
elkaholic Report post Posted January 13, 2012 GREAT JOB to all those who wrote emails and made some phone calls to stop this!!! Proud to be a hunter in AZ today!! WE have lots of issues to complain about but to see this get shot down this quick shows we can get our poop in a group and get something done!!!!! Now maybe we should boycott certain businesses that are owned and ran by certain fellers that have now shown their true colors!!! BYE BYE OUTDOORSMANS!!!!!! I will never buy anything from you guys again....... No more outdoorsman for me either Never been in there , so guess i can pass 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rag Horn Report post Posted January 13, 2012 I may be headed to dance lessons with pbj after this but Chris and the outdoorsman have always been really good to me over the years. Granted I have only had a few transactions and interactions over the last few years with them but I have always felt like I got a fair shake with them. In addition to great customer service. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
.270 Report post Posted January 13, 2012 what is outdoorsmans? Lark. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
archerycrazy Report post Posted January 13, 2012 Please don't try to lump Mclean, Freeman and Woodhouse in with Hernbrode and Martin. Hernbrode and Martin might be offended. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
