AZSFW Latest Tactic and ADA and AAF Positions

[40-year-AZ-hunter]

I do agree there needs to be transparency...having a representative from each critter group attend their meeting or vice versa...doesn't seem outta line or that hard to fix

 

Jack,

 

Would you extend that representation to hunters and anglers who do not belong to one of the "critter" groups? Well less than 5% of hunting license holders belong to any organized group. Right now, everyone, whether they belong to a group or not has input into the G&F process via the open Commission meetings, many dept forums for hunt recommendations, the ballot box (Governor appoints Commissioners), public records laws that allow people to see everything G&F does, etc.

 

Individuals, many of whom do much for wildlife and habitat, have no input into AZSFW or visibility into their processes. Their meetings are not announced on their own website. They do not publish minutes of their meetings. The do not provide anything resembling a "treasurers" report. Most groups do all the above. I personally asked AZSFW how an individual who did not donate $1000 could run for their Board. I was told that they can not. I asked for minutes of their meetings for the past 6 months and none have been forthcoming. I asked for any analysis they had done on the prices the tags they want would bring and how they would affect the prices of existing auction tags and received NOT even a reply. I sent a message asking how many individual, paying members (not members because they belong to an affiliate) AZSFW has. Again, no response. Not much "light of day" shines into their cave.

 

How about AZSFW calling a meeting, open to all and announced well in advance on all the forums, to solicit input from ALL hunters, anglers, or just plain citizens? How about announcing that they are stopping all lobbying on "the concept" of HB 2072 at the legislature until they have achieved such "tranparency" and regained some trust. To me, it was AZSFW that caused the rift among sportsmen. It is their responsibility to take the lead in healing the wounds.

 

Even with the outcry about the "process" of dropping HB 2072, there is NO transparency yet.

 

And, just for the record, I oppose the whole concept behind HB 2072 - tags sold by a private organization at an expo to benefit that organization, but I would gladly enter into any process designed to openly explore all possibilities for solving the problems.

 

Bruce

[40-year-AZ-hunter]

I respect your opinions but I see it differently...

 

The critter organizations trusted the AZSFW enough to donate/sponsor them...correct?

 

Jack,

 

Arizona Elk Society, Hunt of a Lifetime, Yuma Valley Rod and Gun Club, Arizona Desert Bighorn Sheep Society and others have now stopped funding AZSFW. "trusted" - past tense!

 

Bruce

[Chef]

JACK,

Thanks for coming on and giving us your views. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and you do bring some valid points.

 

I agree, there are several good folks that have done a lot for wildlife. They, unfortunately did not have the foresight in regards to seeing the backlash they have and will continue to receive from sportsmen and women in this state. One can only imagine the situation if the initial bill would have been pushed through. "Made a mistake" is not even close to describing what they did. In regards to apologizing for what they did, I have yet to grasp that notion since they continue to secretly lobby for a bill such as the initial one. Not only with Susan Gilstrap at the forefront, but now including people from all over the hunting community such as certain outfitters and guides that in my opinion, would benefit greatly from deals with those behind this push. Remember, when they said "it's a dead bill, a non-issue, let's move on..." all of a sudden we hear that proponents of the bill met with the Governors staff. Dead idea behind the bill?...yeah right.

 

All this while AZSFW continues to keep everyone in the dark with everything. When I say that, I mean, where are the minutes from their meetings? Like Allen stated, where are their plans for tackling the issues we in AZ face? Even after realizing their "mistake" in how the bill was never debated, where is the debate with them now? Exactly.

 

Right now, AZSFW is enemy #1. They have divided us sportsmen in the state. It was their doing, their decision, not ours. Worse part is, they continue to do so. I am happy to say, I have educated as many people as I can about this issue. Many are still in the dark about it, but we will continue to spread the word to those that lend an ear. In many forms, I am happy to say that it is banding us together, getting rid of some of that hunter apathy that AZSFW relied on.

 

Yes the critter groups trusted (past tense) AZSFW enough to pay the required fee to sit on the board. (call it a donation if you want to sugar coat it) No the critter organizations do not call on all their members anytime there is a need for opinion. That is exactly why I found it ludicrous that the ADA thought it was now a good idea to do just that regarding support for AZSFW. They didn't ask us BEFORE they joined, so why now? Good point you brought up, I'm being honest, because I agree with you.

 

What I find most disturbing is how even these critter orgs that sat on the AZSFWC board, were oblivious (I use that term loosely) to the initial bills mere existence.

 

Where is the transparency? Where is the communication? Where is the Trust?

I can answer the last one...gone.

[.270]

I don't care what the question is, giving rich guys a way to buy as many premium tags as they want isn't the answer. This bill is nothing more than a way the hamberlins and their buddies can get a bunch of tags every year, that any of us would love to have just one of, and then the money they spend on the tags goes straight to their pals the gilstraps, so they can lobby for more tags. It also takes the ability to manage wildlife away from the azgfd. Throw in their buddy don pee and his idea of privatizing wildlife and you really have a fiasco.

Edited March 18, 2012 by COOSEFAN
Offensive language has been removed

[AZLance]

I don't care what the question is, giving rich guys a way to buy as many premium tags as they want isn't the answer. This bill is nothing more than a way the hamberlins and their buddies can get a bunch of tags every year, that any of us would love to have just one of, and then the money they spend on the tags goes straight to their pals the gilstraps, so they can lobby for more tags. It also takes the ability to manage wildlife away from the azgfd. Throw in their buddy don pee and his idea of privatizing wildlife and you really have a fiasco.

 

Dang it Lark, now you done and offend poor old CouesFan...

[COOSEFAN]

Didn't offend me but what was said most definitely would offend other members of this site.

 

We will be more aggresive in moderating as things have gotten out of control lately.

 

CouesWhitetail.com is a site where visitors of all ages are welcome and i've always been proud of the fact that CWT.com has always had the most respectful, courteous, and knowledgeable membership of them all!

 

I am all for everyone having the ability to voice their opinions, state facts, and ultimately agree to disagree in the end if necessary, and I would ask that we all try to be respectful and mindful of our language while on the open forum.

 

Thanks, JIM>

[AZLance]

Just for the record, Lark, I was not offended!

[.270]

I give up. After all the crap smack said to me after he was put up to it by these same guys. And you edit my post? Who's side are you on? You want us to all be fence riders? Sounds like azsfw has bought off somebody else. Lark.

[CouesWhitetail]

As I posted earlier in this thread and as Jim explained again, this whole debate has gotten out of hand due to a lack of moderation. We are going to take a harder line on moderating in an effort to bring some civility back to the forum. No one is asking you to be a fence rider, just keep the language civil please. I know everyone here is perfectly capable of getting their point across without swearing or slanderous comments.

[COOSEFAN]

I give up. After all the crap smack said to me after he was put up to it by these same guys. And you edit my post? Who's side are you on? You want us to all be fence riders? Sounds like azsfw has bought off somebody else. Lark.

 

 

As I've stated, we are going to be more aggressive from now on with moderating. Sorry Lark if something wasn't moderated prior that offended you.

 

And for the record, you know exactly what I deleted and why. Out of respect for your opinions and our ability to respectfully argue, state opinions and disagree if we choose, I did not delete your entire post. I also don't care if you are for it, against it, or even if you are a fence rider...everyone is entitled to their opinion and choice. JIM>

[biglakejake]

trying to get my little brain around what is just happening here...............something seems a little off kilter.......a man who has outfitted at least 2 auction tag holders-and who would probably not mind taking on another 2 or 10 or 350 auction tag hunters-is helping to moderate a discussion about expanding the auction tag program. a man who does not seem to have an opinion on 2072 but who would be a serious benefactor to this legislation is a moderator of the discussion? i had started to like jim 'cuz he seemed like he was a hard hunter and a real arizona booster. but now this dog-n-pony show just won't hunt. not for me.

 

did i miss something? has the kool-aid already been served?

 

2010 was a tough year for me. lost my two oldest hunting buds after 40 years in the field. one passed on and will be missed. the other turned over on his friends to get into bed with the hamberlins and is better entirely forgotten. i hope 2012 turns out better than it has started-CWT needs its sponsors AND its members to survive-with the right tools it takes only a minute to scrape off that sticker.

 

lee

[elkaholic]

kinda wondering - JIM - was that your first imput on this subject, that has been discussed /argued etc. for weeks ,when you edited a post.

 

A question ! do you support azsfw or bill 2072?

 

i do not recall seeing you ever making a comment.

[coueshunter]

before anyone jumps to conclusions, amanda has asked all moderators to try and use their judgement to keep the forum clean/no attacks/bad language/etc....Jim made a call and that is that....we don't want to over moderate, but we need to keep civility. sorry if this causes some to speculate......allen Taylor......there is no hidden agenda

[COOSEFAN]

I appreciate your concerns but let me set the facts straight about who Mullins Outfitters is before you form an opinion based off assumptions.

 

 

Mullins Outfitters has guided 1 Auction Tag hunter. We are not against guiding Auction tags but we also don't try for them. The 1 Auction tag hunter that we guided was a close friend of ours prior to him buying the tag, so it worked perfectly for us and we shared an incredible hunt with him. We have never bought or sold a bull or information leading to one, and because of that we have not attracted any other Auction tag holders as clients. I am not saying that is wrong, we just don't do it and pride ourselves in having the ability to find our own bulls with hard work and a great team.

 

We have guided 4 Super Raffle tag hunters. All 4 of those hunters were "average joe" hunters that got lucky and won the tag. We love helping anyone fulfill a dream and especially the "average joe" hunter, I LIVE for that! On several of those Raffle tag hunts we actually donated our services or greatly reduced the price to help make it possible for the hunter to increase his chances of killing a dream bull. Our reputation speaks for itself, I would encourage or challenge anyone to call ANY of our clients, successful or not, and see what they have to say about my outfit!

 

With that said, we, at Mullins Outfitters, do not support the bill. My dad had voted against this bill well before half of you even knew what it was about! I HATE political issues and anyone that has been on CWT.com for any length of time would know that I am usually absent from the Political forum. This issue however has been too big to ignore so here I am. I am a firm beleiver that EVERYONE has the right to their own choice and decisions and even if it differs from mine, I still respect them for it. Just because I have not been vocal in this does not automatically make me a bad guy, a good guy, a supporter or an opposer. For all the other folks who have not made a public stance, I don't care, some are my friends, some are not, it's their choice to do whatever they want and I'm not going to bash them for their decision.

 

Thanks if you read through this, and again, I ask that everyone try to be respectful in your words and debates.

 

I will not delete anyones posts or comments UNLESS it is fowl language or a personal attack.

 

Thanks, JIM>

[Chef]

Thanks for clearing that up Allen.

 

In case you missed it, Jim acknowledeged that it was he that edited the post. That is not required and is his doing. He obviously saved Amanda a lot of grief and in turn knew that people would question him. I commend him for that and if you all need Jim to explain himself, you either don't know Jim Mullins or haven't been here long enough.

 

I look forward to the forum returning to the civil days of old.