Unit 9 Arizona Elk Hunt Success Photos

[couesmagnet]

Ive never guided for jay before but i did grow up with him from the 6thother grade on. We took jay on his first hunting trip in 1987 up to the kaibab archery. Ive hunted with him quite a bit but not much in the last 5 five years. I never said jay was the best, but what i was trying to say is that is a very competant hunter and if they didnt see very many big bulls in all the places they looked than they couldnt have been around every corner. Jay has done well for himself and im proud of him. Im glad you found the bulls this year in 9,its nice to hear some where there in good numbers somewhere. Im not kissing anyones butt including jays or the, ist of people provided earlier, but when i meet someone i consider on my level with regards to hunting or a higher level i always try to listen and learn. Ive also learned that a humble heart learns better than a arrogant one, or at least im trying to learn that.my last post, good luck to all in the field this year.

[Jay Scott]

azborntohunt you seem to have a specific beef with me personally and for that I am sorry. I applaud you on your success this year in Unit 9!

 

I still stand by my statement that Unit 9 was not like normal this year. I never said that there were not a few good bull out there. There were a few good ones killed and I think I have been nothing but complimentary to those that have had great success this year. I believe I have been the first to admit that others found some good ones and that we didn't.

 

I suggest you leave couesmag out of this and just continue your BEEF with me.

 

As to this statement, "Over-rating the need to master an elk call and marketing other gadgets is leading new elk hunters down the wrong path. I say, Simply with a Primos external mouth call such as the Lip Service... and nothing else... a guy with a little know how can down any big bull out there. Knowing how to move on elk is way move valuable than thinking you need to know how to call one in. Know-how comes from a willingness or ability to spend time out there."

 

If you ask anyone that as ever hunted with me, I actually call very little. I do use the cow call effectively at times though as do others.

 

You do make some valid points and I do respect your opinion.

 

I bet out of 100 archery tags there were only 5-10 bulls over 350 inches that were harvested. On a normal year, my bet is that number is twice to three times that.

 

Again I am so glad that you had great success finding some giants. As for protecting my "rep" I think I have proven to be a hard working, god fearing elk loving person. As a matter of fact just for the record I did not even take a hunter for the archery season in Unit 9. I decided to spend time with my buddy and help him and his hunter. I have learned a long time ago that the hunt is way more than inches buddy and that some years you get a big one and some years you don't. It is sure fun trying to find those big boys though!

 

God Bless you in your adventures and the rest of your hunts this year.

 

As to the rest of you guys in 8,9,10 and 7W, what was your thoughts on rut intensity and antler growth? I like to hear others opinions and findings.

[anthonyrmatthews]

Congrats on some nice bulls! Thank you also for the discussion on how the archery hunt went. I was very fortunate to get to be out hunting the first week of the hunt, but it was a brand new unit to me so my comparisons to past years would not be relevant. I did see some very nice bulls, but had a hard time getting the response I was hoping for on these bulls. I was able to call in a few smaller bulls but the big ones weren't too interested. Also, there were a lot of cows not gathered up yet. My question is: With the big rains we had, do you feel the rutting action during the hunt was comparable to drier years where the elk are closer to water sources?

[Jay Scott]

Anthony-

 

That is a great question and is one I have thought a lot about. My opinion is that with the extreme moisture the elk were spread out and not congregated like on more normal drier years. When its dry its seems they all meet up at the watering hole for a drink and it they get more animal interaction thus they tend to get more worked up. The elk seemed very spread out this year which was awesome because the people were spread out too. The drawback is a little less bugling early in the hunt. Another thing that I noticed is when elk don't have to move long distances between feed, bedding and water they seem to be way quieter because they are already content with their cows. In wet monsoon years, there is feed in the trees and they don't have to move big distances to find good grass. Glad you saw some nice bulls!

[anthonyrmatthews]

Thank you for your input! I did notice that the elk I hunted did not travel far from water, to feed, to bed. I did opt to stillhunt the middle of the day and because the elk were so spread out I was able to get some fantastic middle of the day bugling action. I love to hear how others hunts went, because I'm able to learn something new from each one. That's what's so great about this site. Thanks again!

[ready2hunt]

This year was no more "wet" than last year. Some areas received higher moister than others but overall for the state it was still a dry one. Check your rain totals for our monsoon season.

 

Jay you put up great bulls every year. Not sure what the negative comments are for??? (3) posts from someone and they are knocking your business. (And YES we all know this is a public forum and everyone has the right to share their opinion). I appreciate you sponsoring the site w/the other sponsors.

 

I must be a below average hunter because I would be happy with either of those bulls you posted up. Oh, and these 375-380 bulls that were mentioned? It's safe to say that if I saw those bulls and had a tag in my pocket- no amount of scent blocker would mask the crap in my pants.

 

[anthonyrmatthews]

Ready2hunt...I looked at the 2013 monsoon totals and here are some of the #'s for the areas Jay is talking about. Flagstaff had 189% of the average rainfall per year, Bellemont 193%, Grand Canyon Airport 171%, but Seligman only had 96%. I personally don't ever remember it being this "wet". I do know that during the archery hunts there are usually rains, but this year there was standing water everywhere I hunted. I also don't remember the mosquitoes being so bad! I felt like I was being eaten alive at times. I love your comment at the end too...LOL

[ready2hunt]

Yes I agree with all that. The north got pounded. Unit 1 was horrible with mosquitos! Spent a week up there and was done lol. My uncle told me if I thought that was bad then I should never hunt Alaska.

[azborn2hunt]

Jay, its just a different opinion of what Unit 9 was like for me this year. Please don't feel a need to say I have a "personal beef with you" just because I have a different opinion from yours. You asked for it remember. I have said some nice things about you too. Sure I have thrown-in a lil sarcasm... that's what guys do, so don't play the victim card that I'm someone who has a beef with you personally. And then play the hero card and say "leave cmag out of it", "deal me me if you have a beef". Come on man, We are just talking here, why make this more than it is? Stay on topic . I know you're not comfortable with people with a differ opinion than yours on your sponsored forum(mix with some sarcasm, I know I know). Instead of rallying the troops against me, why not ask me some clarifying questions about my experience to demonstrate you actually are interested in others opinion, including those who don't support yours.

You say u stand by your statement that poor antler growth is your answer to diehards question of him expecting to see larger bulls from you in 9. I think its a true statement and you should stick with it. Its true that you guided Mr. Ott to the 'location' where antler size was smaller than usual. Location, not smaller antler is my opinion of the best topic this year... and not to say that unit wide "extreme droughted" bulls was your problem... and topic you started. To diehards observation, Remember, you were the one who created this expectation that people have of you and your skills. Own it when you have an off archery hunt in 9. The spot light is on you more than anyone else because of the endless flood of vids/pics when someone simply googles elk in Arizona. ( sarcasm again... I apologize in advance). Its just an observed fact nothing more.

Location, location. location. You're familiar with that, right Jay. Every year is different in 9 and scouting is always necessary. Some years only vary slightly where bulls are... this year varied widely from past years. I only can assume it was the massive monsoon we had up there. We were lucky (blessed) and went out looking in unconventional places. Elk were using these places in numbers unlike past years. They seemed pocketed more that most years. But it didn't happen unit August. All summer we found them in the usual places. Then the rains fells an forced us into scramble mode.

Location is the topic for me; Elk are mostly grazers. Elk burn a lot of energy in the fall (cows included). God has wired them to know how to find the best energy source available at that time of year. It still amazes me how they find these places for fast. Look for the good grasses (growing densely together in large expanses). Grass is everywhere but there are many pockets that will make you look twice.

[Pixman]

Jay, its just a different opinion of what Unit 9 was like for me this year. Please don't feel a need to say I have a "personal beef with you" just because I have a different opinion from yours. You asked for it remember. I have said some nice things about you too. Sure I have thrown-in a lil sarcasm... that's what guys do, so don't play the victim card that I'm someone who has a beef with you personally. And then play the hero card and say "leave cmag out of it", "deal me me if you have a beef". Come on man, We are just talking here, why make this more than it is? Stay on topic . I know you're not comfortable with people with a differ opinion than yours on your sponsored forum(mix with some sarcasm, I know I know). Instead of rallying the troops against me, why not ask me some clarifying questions about my experience to demonstrate you actually are interested in others opinion, including those who don't support yours.

You say u stand by your statement that poor antler growth is your answer to diehards question of him expecting to see larger bulls from you in 9. I think its a true statement and you should stick with it. Its true that you guided Mr. Ott to the 'location' where antler size was smaller than usual. Location, not smaller antler is my opinion of the best topic this year... and not to say that unit wide "extreme droughted" bulls was your problem... and topic you started. To diehards observation, Remember, you were the one who created this expectation that people have of you and your skills. Own it when you have an off archery hunt in 9. The spot light is on you more than anyone else because of the endless flood of vids/pics when someone simply googles elk in Arizona. ( sarcasm again... I apologize in advance). Its just an observed fact nothing more.

Location, location. location. You're familiar with that, right Jay. Every year is different in 9 and scouting is always necessary. Some years only vary slightly where bulls are... this year varied widely from past years. I only can assume it was the massive monsoon we had up there. We were lucky (blessed) and went out looking in unconventional places. Elk were using these places in numbers unlike past years. They seemed pocketed more that most years. But it didn't happen unit August. All summer we found them in the usual places. Then the rains fells an forced us into scramble mode.

Location is the topic for me; Elk are mostly grazers. Elk burn a lot of energy in the fall (cows included). God has wired them to know how to find the best energy source available at that time of year. It still amazes me how they find these places for fast. Look for the good grasses (growing densely together in large expanses). Grass is everywhere but there are many pockets that will make you look twice.

 

 

So do you have any pics or video of bulls from that area to show us? Not saying you have to prove it just curious and I always enjoy seeing big bulls!

[Kaffer62]

Come on azborn to hunt. Lets see them pics

[Jay Scott]

AZborn-

You Said,”Jay, its just a different opinion of what Unit 9 was like for me this year. Please don't feel a need to say I have a "personal beef with you" just because I have a different opinion from yours. You asked for it remember. I have said some nice things about you too. Sure I have thrown-in a lil sarcasm... that's what guys do, so don't play the victim card that I'm someone who has a beef with you personally. And then play the hero card and say "leave cmag out of it", "deal me me if you have a beef". Come on man, We are just talking here, why make this more than it is? Stay on topic . I know you're not comfortable with people with a differ opinion than yours on your sponsored forum(mix with some sarcasm, I know I know). Instead of rallying the troops against me, why not ask me some clarifying questions about my experience to demonstrate you actually are interested in others opinion, including those who don't support yours.”

 

Again, I am glad you and your buddies had a great time in Unit 9 and found some “monsters”. I have tried to be nothing but complimentary in this conversation. I have not rallied any troops against you. I am perfectly fine with opinions that are different from mine. I actually usually learn something everytime I have a healthy debate. I would prefer this specific debate be between just you and me. I am perfectly fine with having a debate or conversation about our topic. Do I appreciate some of your sarcasm? No I do not. Do I honor your opinion as a member of this site that we all like because it is so different than others? Yes I do. To your statement about great hunters, I am perfectly aware that there are some great hunters out there that are not guides. I know some guys that are not guides that are twice as good of a hunter and elk caller than myself. And yes, I am aware that lots of people help other hunters for free and that is great. It is so nice and pleasant to see friends rally around other friends to help out. I too help a lot of people for absolutely no compensation at all. Also, once the archery hunt began I did not go on foot chasing bulls in the thick jungles. I mainly glassed the whole time trying to find a good bull for Darr and his hunter to go after. We did not feel that it was a good thing for me to going charging through the brush chasing bugles when someone had a coveted archery tag in their pocket. If you see that as another excuse for not finding a giant than so be it. We thought that was the courteous thing to do considering that some guys had burned 16 years to get this tag. You asked me for some questions? Ok. Here you go.

1) Did you find a specific area where every bull had a big back end and not droughted? Or did you find a random bull over 360 in the midst of droughted bulls? (not asking or looking for specific areas or names of areas on a map) I did not find specific areas where the bulls were not droughted in general.

2) Are you agreeing that antler growth overall was less than normal? I believe it was down overall.

3) Do you agree that there were far less bulls under 360 than a normal in Unit 9? I believe there were far less bulls under 360 this year than normal.

4) Did you find one specific type of browse that you feel the bulls that you found that were over 360 were feeding on? I did not find one constant that I could put my finger on that made one bull have big antler and his buddy did not.

5) The two bulls that were shot over 400 came from one area, do you feel they fed on something to make them big like normal or do you think their age allowed them to be big regardless of feed throughout the spring and summer?

I do not know what they fed on other than grass at the Best Western in Tusayan to be that much better than most of the other bulls.

6) Do you feel that those bulls over 400 spent the entire summer in one spot then remained there for the rut or do you feel they moved to rut? I think the two giants that got killed must have summered together in the “promised land”

7) Do you mind posting a picture of the bull you harvested so we can admire?

 

 

You Said, “You say u stand by your statement that poor antler growth is your answer to diehards question of him expecting to see larger bulls from you in 9. I think its a true statement and you should stick with it. Its true that you guided Mr. Ott to the 'location' where antler size was smaller than usual. Location, not smaller antler is my opinion of the best topic this year... and not to say that unit wide "extreme droughted" bulls was your problem... and topic you started. To diehards observation, Remember, you were the one who created this expectation that people have of you and your skills. Own it when you have an off archery hunt in 9. The spot light is on you more than anyone else because of the endless flood of vids/pics when someone simply googles elk in Arizona. ( sarcasm again... I apologize in advance). Its just an observed fact nothing more.”

 

I believe antler growth was way down in general in Unit 9 this year, I think the spring was too dry and too cold. I believe that I got a lesson in need for getting bulls started off great in the spring in order to have normal to good antlers. As to the Google comment, I cannot control google searches. You might have to take that up with Google. As for Diehards statement I agreed with him in being disappointed with the size of bulls seen and harvested this year in unit 9 by us and others. Overall, I believe the majority of other hunters in Unit 9, 10, 8 and 7W were disappointed with antler growth. I still believe that this year was way down on antler size quality. Was it still a great fun hunt? Absolutlely. Did we still try very hard to find a good one? Absolutely. Did other hunters give equal effort? Absolutely. Is it my opinion that Unit 9 was nothing like what we are all used to? Absolutely. Did a few fortunate hunters harvest some fantastic bulls? Absolutely.

As far as expectations of my findings or performance, no one has higher expectations than myself. I push myself to great lengths to do everything I can to find trophy animals. The reality of hunting and scouting is sometimes you find them and sometimes you don’t. I go out each morning with high expectations for what might lie in front of me that day. I will say again I am so glad that you found a few great bulls. I would argue that if you believe that overall antler growth this year in Unit 9 was anything close to “normal” then we have a different opinion of “normal”. I will also say for the record that trail camera pictures and seeing the bulls in person are two totally different things. I am not in any way saying you didn’t see these monsters with your own eyes or that you are strictly talking about trail cameras but I did want to make that point. I have seen the 7-8 giants on the top five guide services in Unit 9 trail cam pics. There is no doubt that this summer the same monsters were on the cams like always. Only two of those bulls were harvested (Scratch/Rhino and Scooby/Flare). Typically those bulls run for the park and stay there once the hunt starts. This year was no different in my opinion.

 

You Said,”Location, location. location. You're familiar with that, right Jay. Every year is different in 9 and scouting is always necessary. Some years only vary slightly where bulls are... this year varied widely from past years. I only can assume it was the massive monsoon we had up there. We were lucky (blessed) and went out looking in unconventional places. Elk were using these places in numbers unlike past years. They seemed pocketed more that most years. But it didn't happen unit August. All summer we found them in the usual places. Then the rains fells an forced us into scramble mode.”

 

I am familiar with location and agree that location is everything. I will say that I literally covered every inch of the unit except for the upper basin because I had some friends hunting there and did not want to intrude on their area. I never found a constant variable where the back ends weren’t droughted. I think the pines seemed to be a little less droughted but not by much. I want to be clear that I still know that a few good bulls were harvested in all areas of Unit 9 this year. I just never saw anything (other than 1) that was over what I thought was 360.

 

This brings up another point, what I think is 360 some might think is 350 and some might think is 370. It is hard to have this debate when the constant variable of scoring is all over the map high and low. I am more conservative than some and more aggressive than others.

To your other point, I found elk in all corners of the unit. I never had trouble finding elk anyplace I went. What I had was a hard time finding bulls over 360 inches.

 

 

You Said, “Location is the topic for me; Elk are mostly grazers. Elk burn a lot of energy in the fall (cows included). God has wired them to know how to find the best energy source available at that time of year. It still amazes me how they find these places for fast. Look for the good grasses (growing densely together in large expanses). Grass is everywhere but there are many pockets that will make you look twice.”

I agree with this last paragraph.

 

Elk are plentiful in Unit 9 and this year was no different.

 

I look forward to your pics and response. Hopefully, I can learn something from this.

[couesmagnet]

I've got a brand new theory on the antler growth this year. We as hunters have shot out most of the genes for bulls with big 5ths. The few bulls that were left with good genes for 5ths were shot this year. Next year all bulls will have week 5ths cause that's all that's left. Now rain has nothing to do with it anymore, and the only "pockets" left will be in the park. Happy fence jumping to all next year. Obviously kidding on this.

[123456]

Jay, you guys kill good bulls every year, and this year looks no different. Everyone will always have a difference of opinion on a particular hunt. I stated in another post about 7E, and another guy said he had a completely different experience than I did.

 

Well this may have been true, however, on the whole, I believe it was a tough year north of Flagstaff. I had the pleasure to help out a long time friend of yours on his hunt in 7E. We helped Rick track his bull and eventually cut it up and load him up. He returned the favor the next morning when my hunting partner got his on top of a steep mountain. (We saved a rear quarter for Rick because we knew he used to play college football and he had muscle milk in his cooler.) LOL! After we had harvested all 3 of our bulls, we all gave a high 5 and were pretty excited to go 3 for 3 in what seemed like a tougher than usual archery bull hunt.

 

The Elk were spread out, and the rut was pretty weak where we were hunting. Rick was hunting a totally different part of the unit, and it didn't sound like he was exactly setting the unit on fire as well. I know that between us 3, we spent almost the whole hunt busting our butts, hiking until my boots wanted to quit, and sitting long periods of time in a blind or stand. I will say Rick killed an excellent bull, and he said it was the biggest he had seen through out the whole hunt. I never did tape it, but I would think it was somewhere in the 320's. We only saw 2 bulls that I would think would beat that. The vast majority of the people I have talked to, that hunted north of Flagstaff, would agree with your statement on antler growth and also agree that the elk were spread out this year. There is always going to be someone who wants to poke when a guide does not kill 375" bulls every time. As long as your hunters had a great time, that is all the matters. Oh yeah, and those bulls are not small by any means, most people would be elated to shoot bulls that big, I know I would. Keep up the good work!

[bonecollector]

Jay, its just a different opinion of what Unit 9 was like for me this year. Please don't feel a need to say I have a "personal beef with you" just because I have a different opinion from yours. You asked for it remember. I have said some nice things about you too. Sure I have thrown-in a lil sarcasm...

 

I think its pretty evident you have beef with Jay. You only joined the forum to come on here and bash him. I dont know Jay so I have no dog in this race. I dont know what your trying to prove here but why dont you just give it a rest already!!!