Arizona looses court case!

[TAM]

I went to the meeting on Friday and I plan on attending the meeting today. I am optomistic that we will have some good news regarding AZG&F's request for a stay. I think just the fact that the Judge asked for a confrence call today is a good sign. If he was going to say no I think he would have already done so. I am hopeful that he asked for a confrence call because he is actually considering granting the stay.

 

It was also discussed that G&F would post the draw results for antelope, sheep, turkey, and buffalo tomorrow, July 20th, since they were not effected by the judges ruling.

 

Keep your fingers crossed!

[CouesWhitetail]

Hi Guys,

 

I have been out in the field working for the last several days. I can see this thread is a bit out of hand and yes it sure does seem like Buster is CHD.

 

I really appreciate those that have added their thoughts without resorting to name calling. What we need, as many of you have suggested in this thread, is some calm, rational way to figure out a solution to this problem.

 

I really don't see why Arizonans shouldn't have the majority of AZ tags. If having a 10% cap is discriminatory, why isn't charging more for a non-resident tag? I don't see how that is different. So then we will have to move to having equal cost and equal access to tags. That means the average hunter in AZ gets fewer and fewer tags. Hunters from outside AZ come here because what we have is so special. One method which has been discussed by groups such as the Arizona Deer Association is to have a conservation bonus point. Hunters that put in say 40 hours of conservation work during the year get a bonus point to increase their odds in the lottery. That will tilt things in favor of AZ residents because they are the ones here and have more ability to attend work projects like water developments, thinning projects or whatever.

 

I certainly encourage everyone who can to attend the AGFD meeting today.

 

Amanda

[deserthunter23]

Amanda,nice to see your post,there does have to be a way to make our point in a calm,collective way,as far as fair for Arizonans,lets make the bonus points really count for something.multiple pulls for the draw isnt much of a bonus system,even though 10% is held for the most points.use that system to help ,we all apply every year as opposed to out of state hunters who may or may not.need your imput on something else so email me at your convenience,still have some coues pics I want to post here but arent scanned,need to mail them to you,lost your last email before i could read it.thanks Steve,good luck to all in the draw when this is resolved

[COUESAZ]

I want to be there just to see lark . I pay to see him get all red faced and upset in persone. as long as it is not at me. Good luck and thank you to all those that will atend the mtg in behalf of us that can not make it. I have a job that has to be done today it is bound by good old contract law you know.

 

I may have to change from ARIZONA GUIDE to some other name after this is all over. So you guy's won't rope me together with other people involved here. I am in the same boat as all other Arizonans with this one.

[TAM]

I just got back from the Az G&F meeting. The good news is that we should all know tomorrow what we drew for all big game animals. G&F decided to keep the results from the initial draw and they will add permits to allow any non residents who would have drawn a tag if it weren't for the 10% cap. All I can say is there are a few lucky non residents this year who will get tags that don't deserve them! I hope the non residents enjoy it while they can because things are changing for next year!

[TREESTANDMAN]

Not the news I was hoping for but it could be much worse.

[muskrat]

More info from bowsite.com

 

OK- The judge declined AZGFD request to hold ruling off 'till next year.

 

THE NEW PROPOSAL:

 

AZGFDs plan that was approved by the officers and will be sent to Judge was to increase the number of tags in the disputed hunting units.

 

The original draw will remain as it sits.

 

An additional draw will be held for the additional tags.(This will appearantly suffice for the courts)

 

The increase in tags of 10.4% average for deer and 8% increase for bull elk has been deemed not a problems by the local game unit managers.

 

Now, they just need to get the court to approve and this will happen.

 

ADDITIONALLY: This is a one-year "band-aid" to help our state get through this.

 

Also, they will most likely post by tomorrow night all hunt draws with the exception of the additional draw.

[KGAINES]

Will the additional draw include all applications or just non-residents.

[coueselk]

Here's the latest and greatest from G&F's website:

 

The Arizona Game and Fish Commission today decided to allocate more hunt permits for bull elk and deer to satisfy a court ruling.

Last week, U.S. District Judge Robert Broomfield threw out Arizona?s 10 percent cap on nonresident hunt permits, saying it violated the Commerce Clause of the U.S. Constitution. Today the judge denied the state?s request for more time to comply with his order, essentially forcing Arizona to retool the hunt draw process.

 

Following today?s ruling, the choice before the commission was to either throw out the results of this year?s drawing for all elk and deer and re-conduct the draw? or to issue additional permit tags, many of them to nonresidents who may have been shut-out of the first drawing.

 

The commission chose to allocate an additional 805 hunt permits.

 

?We had to follow the judge?s order,? says Deputy Director Steve Ferrell, ?and we determined that allocating more permits would harm the fewest amount of people without significantly affecting wildlife, either.?

 

Those hunters already drawn for bull elk or drawn for antlered deer in Hunt Units 12A, 12B, 13A and 13B will receive permits as planned before the court ruling was issued.

 

In order to accommodate the judge?s order, an additional list of applicants will be assembled, consisting of hunters who had the lowest random numbers issued during the draw process. That list will then be sorted without using the nonresident cap, resulting in an additional 805 hunters who will receive a permit. Although most of the new permits will go to nonresidents, some Arizonans will benefit, too, because some will be for residents who applied to hunt with nonresident friends.

 

?Given the constraints imposed by the judge, we think this system is the best choice to benefit all Arizona hunters,? says Ferrell. ?If we had to conduct the entire draw again, many hunters would not receive their permits in time to adequately plan their trip, and that would affect a lot of people who make their living in hunting-related businesses. And in terms of the effect on wildlife, because only a small number of hunt units are affected, we?ve determined that a one-time increase in permits will not significantly affect wildlife resources.?

 

The additional permits will affect a relatively small percentage of hunt units?only 42 of 165 elk hunt units, and 9 of 108 deer hunt units.

 

?Most important,? says Ferrell, ? is that every Arizona hunter who was already drawn this fall will receive a permit. We?re not taking away any permits from residents.?

 

The delay in the draw process will also cause a slight delay in permit mailings. Hunters selected in the original drawing can check to see whether they?ve been awarded a permit by checking the department Web site, azgfd.com, July 21. Hunters who receive the additional tags will be notified no later than Aug. 10 for hunts that begin in mid-September.

 

Those hunters who were successful in the original drawing will receive their permits in the mail by July 30, and those who receive one of the additional permits?resident and nonresident?will receive their permits by Aug. 30.

 

Meantime, the department is poised to release the names of applicants who have been drawn for species not affected by the court ruling: buffalo, bighorn sheep, turkey and antelope. Hunters who put in for those species can learn their status no later than 5 p.m. on July 20.

 

More than 100 hunters attended today?s commission meeting. More than 270,000 people applied for big game permits for the fall hunt.

 

Before the close of the meeting today, Game and Fish Director Duane Shroufe thanked his staff for working ?12 to 16 hour days since this ruling came down.? He also thanked the Game and Fish Commission for its decisiveness and hunters for their support of the department. Shroufe said this ruling would affect many other states besides Arizona.

 

The Game and Fish Commission will discuss long-term options to address the court ruling at a meeting to be held in Flagstaff, Aug. 13-14.

[Arizona Griz]

This is probably the best "band-aid" solution for this year. At least it won't effect the residents. I am sure there will be a different solution next year.

 

Arizona Griz.

[Guest Buster]

I'm starting to get the idea that I'm not welcome on this forum, LOL.

 

First, when states inadvertantly over-draw resulting in over-kill in a unit, they typically reduce the tag quota the following year to make up for it. I wonder if this will happen for the impacted units next year?

 

Second, I have a real hard time believing that the additional non-resident tags will result in only 8 or 10% increase in tag numbers. The 'primo' units and hunts are LOADED with non-resident applicants. As an example, in 1994 AZGFD blew it and allowed everybody in the same pool for the 13A muley hunt. Anybody remember that? There were 100 tags total, with the 10% nonres cap. Turned out that 52 non-residents and 48 residents got tags. If that 52% is representative of that application pool, over half of the applicants were non-residents! Since trophy hunting for elk and deer is even more popular today, and there are plenty of magazines and application services telling you which hunts/units are the primo ones, I can't help but think that there are plenty of non-resident apps in those pools.

 

Buster

[trufletch]

Anybody know if the meeting on Aug 13, 14th in Flagstaff is an open meeting with public input? Maybe head up to the cool pines, get out of the heat and throw in our two-cents. We need to make sure our voice is heard on a regular basis. I couldn't make the recent trips to Phoenix but Flagstaff in Aug. sounds like a good idea.

 

trufletch

[couesking]

This has turned into a big mess because some poeple other than Arizonan's feel this is unfair. First of all if you are not from Arizona I think you shouldn't have much say in what we do. We ought to think about having out of staters use Arizona residential guides only. This would keep the money in our state not in New Mexico. I don't mean have an arizona guides license I mean proof of residents in Arizona. Just a thought. It is funny how states do not have any power anymore. It comes down to who's got the money or who knows someone.

[JSR]

How come people are not beating down Utah for their Mountain goat tags. They issue 1 tag per year to NR's. So, if AZ sets aside 1 NR bull ELk tag and 1 Buck tag north of the CO River, the courts should be satisfied?

[Guest Busters Mom]

Come home now Buster and let the BIG boys play!