Unit 33, 2450 Coues tags!

[bigorange]

 

 

Where's 33?

i think its in the rockies

Border unit

[doogan]

I think its a little ridiculous too! They give out 2390 coues tags in 36b! Yeah there's deer there but not that many!

[Titanium700]

Im a 33 (yep, wherever that is) hunter too, there are lots of problems with that unit many already mentioned but there are areas you can get to if you dont mind hiking a ways to get away from everybody and find the big deer.

[SNEEKEE1]

I live in and hunt 33 year around the last couple years the mule deer have been getting hit hard its pretty sad really don't see as good of deer as you use to white tail is alright but I think they need to leave the unit alone and stop giving out so many tags to be honest. I think they need to give a mature doe tag out maybe 15 tags to start cause I watched so many mature old @ss does push the younger ones away n apparently the old ones don't put out good amounts of bucks. Whitetail are there going to take sometime to find I also agree its pretty obvious if G&F can make money off of these units there going to drain every cent out of the units I hate hunting on top of people and also hate having people on top of me. If I see someone going after deer I back off and watch from a distance but I have accidently walked over a hill and sat down and put the binos up and saw a guy stalking well he was getting close to the deer saw me got mad stopped stalk and tore off.

[Coues79]

Its a pure money standpoint for the game and fish. Tines talked about the "survey" that they conducted a few years ago. He's exactly right about that. The precedent has been set. They don't care (big wigs) about the quality of animals that are there as long as they get their money. Its amazing that as much as is discussed about "drought" and the impact that it has on numbers, the g and f keep shelling out tags like we have the numbers like back east.

 

It won't ever change guys. Money talks. We hunters in the field who "see" the changes don't matter in the so called "management" of the wildlife in this state. We still don't even have mandatory reporting.... That's a no brainer IMO

[azelkhunter2]

A few things to keep in mind when the subject of tag allotments are discussed. Several yrs ago the G&F Dept put a great deal of time and effort into a hunter / public survey, When it was all said and done the OVERWHELMING !! theme was that hunters wanted more opportunity, Not less hunters, Not bigger animals, WE wanted to hunt more often. Now with that last statement....If you added up all the members of this site we would make up less then 1/8 of 1 percent of all the licensed hunters in this state, And the members of this site cant even agree on what would be an appropriate number of tags and hunt structure....Every unit in this state gets pounded from august till the new yr...Bird hunters, Small and big game hunters the list goes on forever !!!....You can complain and let it ruin your hunt or YOU can find a way to get away from the average hunter and have a successful hunt.....I currently sit on the board for one of the many wildlife org's in the state and over the last 25 yrs have worked with and for many of the others...I will tell you..... Too this day the majority of the members still want MORE tags.....

[johnnie blaze]

A few things to keep in mind when the subject of tag allotments are discussed. Several yrs ago the G&F Dept put a great deal of time and effort into a hunter / public survey, When it was all said and done the OVERWHELMING !! theme was that hunters wanted more opportunity, Not less hunters, Not bigger animals, WE wanted to hunt more often. Now with that last statement....If you added up all the members of this site we would make up less then 1/8 of 1 percent of all the licensed hunters in this state, And the members of this site cant even agree on what would be an appropriate number of tags and hunt structure....Every unit in this state gets pounded from august till the new yr...Bird hunters, Small and big game hunters the list goes on forever !!!....You can complain and let it ruin your hunt or YOU can find a way to get away from the average hunter and have a successful hunt.....I currently sit on the board for one of the many wildlife org's in the state and over the last 25 yrs have worked with and for many of the others...I will tell you..... Too this day the majority of the members still want MORE tags.....

 

no doubt that this is true. But since when has wildlife management ever been decided by the public? Oh wait, I think it was back when we had passenger pigeons.

[azelkhunter2]

Their have been a few post that state...It's all about the money and G&F could care less about the animals...I will be the first to tell you I vehemently disagree with the department on many issues..But in this case they are only doing exactly what the MAJORITY of the hunters in this state asked for many yrs ago and what they continue to ask for to this day..In an effort to appease all sides the department put in place alternative management units with far less tags and even did away with hunts all together and would you believe that WE HUNTERS complain that there are not enough tags in those units...So please if you have solution that will make more then 250.000 hunters and outdoor enthusiast all happy....Put it out there, Take it to the Dept, Approach one of the many wildlife org's with it...Or sit behind a key board and complain....

[azelkhunter2]

Johnnie... while I agree we dont have much if any say in most things these days....We the hunters in this state do have a say, It may not be what we had in the past but the dept does listen....They put in place a new form so WE could have a voice...The turn outs have been HORRIBLE !!!..Less then 10 hunters per form...Out of over 250.000 hunters less then 10 !!....Would you listen ?

[johnnie blaze]

Why would I complain to a "wildlife org"? Shouldn't I complain to a game and fish wildlife biologist? You know....the ones that are suppose to decide the well being of our wildlife? Screw the 250,000 hunters. Do what's right by the wildlife.....once upon a time, game and fish officers were not only law enforcement.

[AZLance]

Ok, Unit 33 is a Disaster! I have hunted there my entire hunting carreer and guided there for whitetail for many years. And yes, 33 is a great unit where you can get away from other hunters and most of my hunts I have never seen another hunter, and in 22 years of hunting and guiding, I have only seen Game and Fish 3 times (once in 1993 had WM Jon McGehee check my deer on the drive home, Once ran into WM Katie Pruss while scouting back in 1993, and once in 2000 had WM Bob Fink come to camp while I was guiding). As For WM Martin Guerena, I have heard he was assigned to this unit for several years now, but have never seen him.

 

So lets look at the numbers for unit 33: (I got these tag numbers and hunt success numbers from the 2014 Hunt Reg booklet)

 

Oct Jr. Hunt 151 tags --- 64% = 97 bucks taken / 2

October General Hunt 700 tags --- 37% = 259 bucks taken

November General Hunt 700 tags --- 26% = 182 bucks taken

November Jr. Hunt 176 tags --- 38% = 67 bucks taken / 2

Late November Gen. Hunt 700 tags --- 35% = 245 bucks taken

November Muzzle Hunt 200 tags --- 11% = 22 bucks taken / 2

December Gen Hunt 50 tags --- 60% = 30 bucks taken

 

Total Whitetail bucks taken in 2013 = 828 bucks taken ( I divided the Jr. hunts and Muzzleloader hunt in half due to it being any antlered deer)

 

I know 33 is a large unit, but a big part of it is Saguaro National Park. Im not sure any unit can sustain killing 800+ bucks a year. And these numbers I provided above have been pretty consintant for the past few years. I understand that they did a survey, and the hunters spoke and wanted more opportunity. But for the love of God, put the deer as the priority. Like I said, I have hunted this unit for 22 years, and I have noticed a big decline in the deer numbers. And its not just WT, Mule deer herds that used to be large, are non-existent in some areas. The WT buck to doe ratio used to be pretty good at 4:1, but nowadays glassing up 100 does for every buck is crazy. This cant be sound management. The WMs need to speak up, dont be afraid to go against management if you see something wrong. Promotion at the expense of the wildlife cant be your only goal in life.

 

Yes, Hunters want more opportunity, but the opportunity to actually see a buck is dwindling. I think I can speak for most hunters, yes we want more opportunity, but not just the opportunity to go camping and see no deer.

 

P.S. I have never seen Tony Mandile in the field either...

[johnnie blaze]

And those are just reported kills, and not including archery.

[MattMan]

The WT buck to doe ratio used to be pretty good at 4:1, but nowadays glassing up 100 does for every buck is crazy. This cant be sound management.

 

To quote what one of the WMs you mentioned told me last year in a southern unit - "We can have a ridiculously low buck to doe ratio, like 100:1, and still get all the does bred. So what we're doing management wise is working."

 

[520HUNT]

 

The WT buck to doe ratio used to be pretty good at 4:1, but nowadays glassing up 100 does for every buck is crazy. This cant be sound management.

 

To quote what one of the WMs you mentioned told me last year in a southern unit - "We can have a ridiculously low buck to doe ratio, like 100:1, and still get all the does bred. So what we're doing management wise is working."

Do these WMs actually have degrees? Or are they making this $hit up as they go? Insanity!

[Tines]

To echo Lance, the animals must take priority. The dept should answer to their conscience and professional obligations, not some ridiculously weighted survey.

 

If hunters complain they're not drawing a tag every year in their favorite unit then it seems pretty simple. G and F can explain it in one statement- "I understand your frustration but responsible game management and the quality of a hunt takes precedence over your wants". PERIOD. End of discussion.

 

There's always leftover permits in other units.

 

The problem with their survey was obvious from the beginning. I run into a LOT of hunters in and out of the field each year. Many of them have great intentions but most haven't a clue to hunting let alone sound game management. Not to sound arrogant but i RARELY run into a hunter where i walk away thinking "that guy knows what he's doing/talking about". Those, my friends, are the majority who took that survey. I assure you that the dept knew exactly how the majority would respond to a rhetorical question like "would you like more hunting opportunity?".