Over the counter archery deer tag gone?

[mulie hunter]

<<<<<<"Point in case 12aw in 2005 1000 rifle tags with approx. 40-50% sucess. I hunted Kaibab archery in '05, And 400-500 deer were not taken during that hunt or any other! Better manage the rifle hunts first.">>>>>>>>

 

I view this differently. When a unit has a 40% to 50% hunter success on BUCK-ONLY hunting it means to me tha there are plenty of deer in that unit and MORE tags could have been issued. Typically, hunter success rates drop as more people go afield, and 20% to 30% success rates are considered good in most states.

 

A similar thing goes for a high percentage of young bucks in the "harvest." Some hunters view it with alarm, but this is an indicator of a healthy, expanding herd. When the majority of bucks taken are 3 or more years old it means reproduction has suffered for the past couple of years.

 

<<<<<<<"If some units are more crowded than others, put a draw on them, but I see no need to have a draw in units where few people go anyway and where success rates are much lower than on Kaibab">>>>>>>>

 

Back in 1969, the original plan was to have rifle permits in just a few units near Phoenix, Flagstaff and Tucson, but wildlife managers feared a "domino" effect with hunters who normally hunted these units spilling over into the adjacent open units. Before we knew it, the damned things were across the board statewide. You can be sure the same thing will happen if bowhunters are forced into a lottery like riflemen.

My point here is there is no need for a draw on the kaibab, why limit the archery hunt while increasing the rifle hunt numbers. The Kaibab has historically had 40-50% percent success no mattter the hunt permit numbers. The quality of bucks on the Kaibab is second to none in the state. The herds in '05 were no better than in previous years, some veteran Kaibab hunters are actually complaining about the deer numbers. More tags = more money for Azgfd.

[ultramag]

azgfd will make archery a draw. the question is when and how bad is it going to be.

[bowhunter4life]

give it a few more years and they will have the data from all the success rates that are required to be turned in. by only having 10 days to call it in,they know what unit and the amount of bucks harvested.

[bobbyo]

azgfd will make archery a draw. the question is when and how bad is it going to be.

Ultramag,

I believe you are right and this will eventually happen. To me it would be a disaster. I love our current archery deer situation. A total of 9 weeks is awesome. Is there a state anywhere with such a liberal season? Believe me I appreciate this and take advantage of it quite a bit. For the life of me I cannot believe that any Arizona bowhunter would even suggest changing the current system. In addition to this I am able to put in for rifle tags. I can see how some rifle only hunters might think this is unfair, since they are limited to one short crowded season. I have a simple remedy for this situation. Buy a bow. A draw only bow tag will shorten the season, raise the cost, limit the area we are able to hunt and limit hunting opportunities. What would we gain? Nothing. If you think GF will limit archery tag numbers in prime hunting areas with a draw you are being naive. There is a good chance that concentrations of hunters will increase, because once drawn for a unit you will have to hunt that unit in that designated time no matter how crowded. It is all about choice right now we have the ability to choose when and where we hunt archery deer. With a draw our choices would be drastically limited. I have never hunted the Kaibab archery season. I would like to, but I have heard what a zoo it is, so I choose not to. I would hate to see an archery draw for that hunt because too many hunters have complained about what a zoo it is. There are plenty of other great areas in Arizona to hunt quality animals. Lets not make the Kaibab that first symbolic domino.

Bob

[dave]

Mark,

My main reason for supporting a draw for archery deer is to make it possible to cap non-residents that apply. Second to that, there may be some areas that have too many hunters concentrated there. I don’t believe archery deer impacts the resource at all so that would not be my reasoning. I would encourage those that primarily hunt with firearms and want more opportunity to join us in the sport of bowhunting.

 

Mike,

They started the pie allocation thing about twenty years ago and I am not sure when they decided to only consider the first choice as the demand. They have done it that way for as long as I can remember. Don’t confuse it with the drawing, when your number is drawn they look at your first choice first and if there are no tags left, they look at your second choice. So in the drawing you have both your first and second choices considered when your number is drawn but they only consider your first choice in how they split up the pie between the weapon groups. They are not looking at the unit you put in for, they are looking at the weapon type you chose. I hope that answers your question.

 

Mr. Quimby,

Good day to you sir. Hope you are doing well.

Bill, if you believe we have less deer now and the drought has not changed that, how would you explain it?

By the way, most seasons are longer now.

 

IHunt2live,

Some parts of the central and southern units get enormous pressure from hunters, mainly from California. I am glad we have the opportunity we do to archery hunt. Even if it were to go to a draw, it could be done so in such a way that there would be tags for any resident that wanted to archery deer hunt in just about any unit they wanted to. I would never want to give that up either.

 

To All,

Putting archery deer to the draw can accomplish a couple things. What were my reasons for wanting it? It shouldn’t shorten or change any seasons, it is only accounting for who hunts and giving the Department a direct line to them for collecting hunter surveys. As it is now, the Department may not know who has or had a tag for six months or until all the vendors report. It also would allow to curve some areas that are hit too hard (by crowding not harvest). It should not prevent any resident from archery deer hunting.

[DesertBull]

I don't think it should stop any non-resident from hunting deer either. They already have a cap on everything else. Archery deer and javelina is the only thing left that we can use to plan hunts with family and friends that do not live here.

 

The only draw I would favor is for the Kaibab, but only for crowding reasons. And the crowding is not that much better after opening weekend, as everyone has the same idea about beating the crowds.

 

I would also favor a draw in areas that are not currently open to archery seasons, like the northern units in the winter and some of the desert units in the summer. I would love to bow hunt unit 37 in the summer. Everytime I write the Dept about it, they say the deer numbers won't support it, but yet they give out 700 rifle tags?

[dave]

Have you ever looked into applying for archery deer in New Mexico? It doesn't stop us from hunting there, it only regulates us.

[mulie hunter]

Desert bull I disagree with the overcrowding of the Kaibab I hunt it during the week and it is not that bad and the further you go from the roads you hardly see any other hunters. The game tanks and areas near roads are normally crowded, that's the problem alot of hunters don't want to get out and hike. I have hunted game tanks right off the road during the week with no problems. I didn't make the Kaibab hunt in '06, but my hunting buddy and his friend did, found a waterhole set up, 4 days later they were going home with 2 bucks, no complaints about overcrowding. So Again I disagree with a draw for crowding reasons. I have hunted rifle hunts with more overcrowded conditions. Remember the 1980's - early 90's some units had tags numbers in the mega thousands, why good deer pops.. If the deer population can support it don't limit the archery hunter or any other hunter. Some of you guys you are complaining about overcrowding on the Kaibab, when was the last time you tried hunting it during the week. You who favor a Kaibab draw are naive the Azgfd knows if they get a draw there it won't take much to take it statewide!!! I'll be hunting the Kaibab in Sept. If you don't hunt it don't complain.

[jim]

Just make everyone that wants to hunt archery put in for a archery tag on the spring draw for the next year. No left over tags, you either archery hunt or not. This way if your an archery hunter you still get your tag and doesn't change where you can hunt or the season dates.

[111]

I think they should make a rule where if you draw a rifle deer tag for that year then you are not allowed to hunt archery deer on the Kaibab or possibly Statewide. I wonder if that would limit the number of hunters without going to a draw for archery deer...

[mulie hunter]

I think they should make a rule where if you draw a rifle deer tag for that year then you are not allowed to hunt archery deer on the Kaibab or possibly Statewide. I wonder if that would limit the number of hunters without going to a draw for archery deer...

I think most true archery hunters could agree with that, because once you start bowhunting, I mean serious bowhunting, Rifle hunting is just not as exciting. Try having a monster mule deer feeding within 40 yards, my hearts beating so fast i'm wondering if the deer can hear it,....that's a rush I don't get from a 200 yard shot(nothing against rifle hunting,I still do it occassionally and my kids rifle hunt, so don't take that wrong)

I put in for archery Javelina, I put in for archery elk, If archery deer was a draw I would put in for that. So my choice of hunting is definetly bow and arrow. I still don't think the numbers of bowhunters is as great as the number of rifle hunters, and I know far less deer are harvested by archers.

[bobbyo]

Here is a great idea. How about we keep it the way it is. What is wrong with the way we have it? Any change means more regulation. More govt interference. A new rule for this and a new rule for that will ruin the great bow season that we have. More rules mean more govt. Don't fix things that are not broke. What are you guys a bunch of big govt liberals!

Bob

[Ron G.]

Here is a great idea. How about we keep it the way it is. What is wrong with the way we have it? Any change means more regulation. More govt interference. A new rule for this and a new rule for that will ruin the great bow season that we have. More rules mean more govt. Don't fix things that are not broke. What are you guys a bunch of big govt liberals!

Bob

 

 

I agree! Leave it alone...

[missedagain]

I'll third leaving it alone, if you don't like how crowded an area is then find another area! You know that with our g$f even if archery deer did go to a draw they would be giving out 1000's of tags and it would not solve the crowding the only thing it would do is limit hunter oppurtunity

[mulie hunter]

I'll third leaving it alone, if you don't like how crowded an area is then find another area! You know that with our g$f even if archery deer did go to a draw they would be giving out 1000's of tags and it would not solve the crowding the only thing it would do is limit hunter oppurtunity

I'll fourth leaving it alone!!!!! It's works just fine the way it is!!! So all I got to say to these last few comments is amen & Hallelujah!!!!! Preach it Brothers!!!!