oldguy123 Report post Posted March 10, 2015 I feel pretty confident that the pilot hired by smith is going to testify exactly what he was hired to do and exactly who told him to do what and everything that took place in order to reduce his fine... wouldn't you?? or are you going to just roll the dice and hope you don't get a year in jail and a 200K fine???? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oldguy123 Report post Posted March 10, 2015 Mr Smith wont be able to continue in the outfitting business if convicted, He cant turn over his outfitting business and then be paid by it. He is still in the outfitting business then.. If he gets paid by the business he is in the business, if he tries to hide he is in the business how does the business pay him? Next thing he will be in trouble with the IRS and then the game and fish again.. Unless they Game and Fish just says he cannot guide and hunt, If that's the case I hope they change the law so that if an outfitter is convicted they cannot participate in any business that profits from Arizona Wildlife.. This should hold true with all outfitters so if one of their employees commits an offense the outfitter is responsible for it.. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hoghntr Report post Posted March 10, 2015 cool can't wait to see how this one plays out. now i gotta ax the question. is this unethical? sounds like it was ethical to guys in the chopper. when you have guys paying 6 figures for tags, they really want some special results. folks that are willing to cross the line are in high demand when big $ are laid down. Lark. I have to be honest with you, after you used the word "ax" in the manner you did, you totally lost me for the rest of you post. Huge pet peeve of mine. I hope you did it intentionally knowing the difference between the two words. Sorry to get on my soap box, but every time I hear this one at work, it is like nails on a chalkboard. Ya sure were bunch guys ax'in questions in militray. L.O.L. make me KarAzY Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hoghntr Report post Posted March 10, 2015 All in the name of $$$ can you imagine swooping in with helo and snatching lopers right away from a fellow hunter?? Of course not! this is sinkin to pretty low level to care more about that cash than a hunters success. and do ya suppose the hunter is fully aware of cheating tactics or do they just show up and shoot a monster and celebrate.?? and $12,500 for a muley in az..I did not know guides got this kinda cash here for a mule deer.. holy crap how big was he?? MAN IM SO GLAD IM NOT A WEALTHY $ MAN! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TOBY Report post Posted March 10, 2015 I say all hunters have a demonstration outside the courthouse and get the media involved to put some pressure on "the system" to actually get a judgement and sentence deserving of the crime. It's public record so someone should be able to find court date. Maybe get some anti-bullying guide laws implemented as well and a limit to how many dozen spotters and babysitters allowed per client, etc etc. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mbiewer Report post Posted March 10, 2015 Ah... had to get a Samich..... as long as we're being technical here.... "samich" is spelled wrong.... I believe it's called a "saMMich"..... unless you were helping your buddy Sam reach a spot. jk ha ha 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JLW Report post Posted March 10, 2015 cool can't wait to see how this one plays out. now i gotta ax the question. is this unethical? sounds like it was ethical to guys in the chopper. when you have guys paying 6 figures for tags, they really want some special results. folks that are willing to cross the line are in high demand when big $ are laid down. Lark. I have to be honest with you, after you used the word "ax" in the manner you did, you totally lost me for the rest of your post. Huge pet peeve of mine. I hope you did it intentionally knowing the difference between the two words. Sorry to get on my soap box, but every time I hear this one at work, it is like nails on a chalkboard. you guys don't get his humor,,,,,, whatever happened to the member spotlight???? James 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oldguy123 Report post Posted March 10, 2015 Not all outfitters are bad. But if you have ever finally drawn a Bull or Strip tag and then been harassed by a guides "helpers" you probably would feel that there needs to be a limit on helpers.. I be the happiest guy on the mountain if a hunter was limited to two guides. Imagine having helpers drive by your camp before daylight then watching an animal you wanted to hunt nobody with a tag among them.. giving you the death stare as you come to hunt or telling you this is their clients animal or even spooking it off on purpose.. But of course they are there every year so its their spot,, right? If a "helper" is harassing a legal hunter then the outfitter should be fined, the helper fined and banned forever for working for a guide. how many helpers are to many? 5? 10? 20? It will happen to you... just draw a premium tag. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hoghntr Report post Posted March 10, 2015 Not all outfitters are bad. But if you have ever finally drawn a Bull or Strip tag and then been harassed by a guides "helpers" you probably would feel that there needs to be a limit on helpers.. I be the happiest guy on the mountain if a hunter was limited to two guides. Imagine having helpers drive by your camp before daylight then watching an animal you wanted to hunt nobody with a tag among them.. giving you the death stare as you come to hunt or telling you this is their clients animal or even spooking it off on purpose.. But of course they are there every year so its their spot,, right? If a "helper" is harassing a legal hunter the, then the outfitter should be fined the helper fined and banned forever for working for a guide. how many helpers is to many? 5? 10? 20? It will happen to you just draw a premium tag heck I even had this happen when I drew an early 22 archery bull elk tag. I met an old fart there was a local I told him what bull I was after he told me his son had the hunt that followed mine and they were after the same bull so then for the next two weeks these old retired farts chased that bull around bugling and screaming at him and just pushing him away from me at all times.*Nice I was hunting with dislocated ribs and a collapsed hip and half dozen old farts couldn't even let me have a fair chance. **But how do ya prove harrasement? btw it's the bull in my avatar they so kindly kept in contact with 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DesertBull Report post Posted March 10, 2015 I wonder if this incident is related to this..... http://www.coueswhitetail.com/forums/topic/56221-azgfd-does-it-again/?do=findComment&comment=541743 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MULEPACKHUNTER Report post Posted March 10, 2015 I like it, sounds like they lose all their big money for hunting if they landlock. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bonecollector777 Report post Posted March 10, 2015 I'm not on either side but from what I have read the only evidence is a few guys saying this happened. These days we all have cameras and phones so why didn't someone get some video or pictures? It may have happened but I think it's gonna be tough to convict someone off he said she said evidence. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oldguy123 Report post Posted March 10, 2015 I'm not on either side but from what I have read the only evidence is a few guys saying this happened. These days we all have cameras and phones so why didn't someone get some video or pictures? It may have happened but I think it's gonna be tough to convict someone off he said she said evidence. The Pilot. He wont go down for some guy that hired him if all this is true. 1 year and $200,000 FFA probably has rules on flying and committing a crime, so he may lose his pilots license? may lose everything over this? His attorney will tell him its either that or take a chance and I bet the evidence and testimony is overwhelming. NO,, he is going to sing like a cactus wren in mating season Smith is really the only the guy they want .. I love the hiring a professional wildlife herding pilot from Texas to herd cattle on another ranch through a fence in Aug story though. We all know ranchers herd cattle in August, because they stray so far from the water in June and July.. seriously I bet that was the only pilot in Aug within 1000 miles herding "cattle" 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
.270 Report post Posted March 10, 2015 i'm sorry offended ya slider, if i ax you your address will you tell me to it so i can send you a dollar. use it to buy a sense of humor. i keep telling you guys to give up on ethics. there are too many opinions to use "ethics" as a reason to change things. nobody has the same opinion on anything. everyones likes and dislikes vary. use the laws as they're written to your best ability. if something is legal but doesn't seem ok to you, then don't do it, but don't hammer folks that do. this helicopter deal is a direct effect of $$$. guys with a lotta money think they deserve better than joe hunter. they paid several years wages for a regular guy, for their tag and then that much again for their posse and they want results. the folks that guide these guys are attracted to the money, celebrity and power these guys have and get sucked into the tornado. don't know this smith guy, but he's in a lotta trouble. seems like i saw him on a hunting show in mexico chasing coues deer once. if it's the same guy he was a real jerk even on tv. whatever. this kinda action is offensive to everyone. if you axed this smith guy before this happened he would say it was something that folks shouldn't do. same with the guys that hunt with him. as long they don't get smeared they don't care what went into the equation as long as they get the answer they want. Lark. 10 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest wdenike Report post Posted March 10, 2015 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ROFLMAO^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ As far as ethics go. Pretty soon we'll have ta ax permission and fill background checks to buy ammo. Pretty sure we all have bigger fitch to fry. Take care, Willie Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
