Crossbow permit repeal

[wildwoody]

LMAO

[cactusjack]

Only 3?

[AzDiamondHeat]

"at least"....

[cactusjack]

Pushed back, 3 to 2 vote.  

[elkaholic]

On 5/9/2025 at 11:04 AM, cactusjack said:

Pushed back, 3 to 2 vote.  

I guess this means that crossbows will remain legal during archery season 

[654321]

1 minute ago, elkaholic said:

I guess this means that crossbows will remain legal during archery season 

For now.  The same thing happened on the trail camera ban.  It just took a little longer but in the end trail cameras were banned.

[cactusjack]

32 minutes ago, elkaholic said:

I guess this means that crossbows will remain legal during archery season 

Crossbow permits were good until Jan 2026,  so all the Fall hunts were covered. 

I agree that they are probably going to do the same thing anyway.  

I did think it's funny that Commissioner Buchanan referred to the Pope and Young definition of archery equipment.  He did miss the part of electronic equipment on bows. 

1. Electronic or battery-powered devices shall not be attached to a hunting bow, with the exception of recording devices that cast no light towards the target and do not aid in rangefinding, sighting or shooting the bow.

So if we are against technology, and following the rules of Pope and Young, 

• By the use of electronic devices for attracting, locating or pursuing game or guiding the hunter to such game, or by the use of a bow or arrow to which any electronic device is attached with the exception of lighted nocks and recording devices that cast no light towards the target and do not aid in rangefinding, sighting or shooting the bow.

Garmin sights, illuminatedsights, radios and Onx are used, ban them too?

 

[knothead]

It helps when you include the entire definition of a hunting bow from Pope & Young:

I. Hunting Bow

1. A hunting bow for big game shall be a longbow, flat bow, recurve bow, compound bow or any combination of these designs meeting the following requirements and restrictions:
   1. A device for launching an arrow, which derives its propulsive energy solely from the bending and recovery of two limbs.
   2. The bow must be hand drawn by a single and direct, uninterrupted pulling action of the shooter. The bowstring must be moved from brace height to the full draw position by the muscle power of the shooter’s body. The energy used to propel the arrow shall not be derived from any other source such as hydraulic, pneumatic, mechanical or similar devices. These limitations shall not exclude the mechanical leverage advantage provided by eccentric wheels or cams so long as the available energy stored in the bent limbs of the bow is the sole result of a single, continuous, and direct pulling effort by the shooter.
   3. The bow must be hand-held. One hand shall hold the bow and the other hand draw the bowstring. The bowstring must be moved and/or held at all points in the draw cycle entirely by the muscle power of the shooter until release. The bowstring must be released as a direct and conscious action of the shooter’s either relaxing the tension of the fingers or triggering the release action of a hand-held release aid.
2. Exceptions: Physically handicapped bowhunters shall be excepted from the requirements of holding or shooting the bow with their hands.
3. Exclusions:
   1. The following shall not be considered a hunting bow:
      1. A crossbow.
      2. Any device with a gun-type stock or incorporating any device or mechanism that holds the bowstring at partial or full draw without the shooter’s muscle power.
      3. Electronic or battery-powered devices shall not be attached to a hunting bow, with the exception of recording devices that cast no light towards the target and do not aid in rangefinding, sighting or shooting the bow.
      4. No portion of the bow’s riser (handle) or any track, trough, channel or other device that attaches directly to the bow’s riser shall contact, support, and/or guide the arrow from a point rearward of the bow’s brace height.
4. Let-Off for Compound Bows: * There is no maximum let-off for a hand-held, hand-released bow. We do gather statistics on this data, therefore we state how let-off should be measured.
   1. Definition of let-off: That characteristic of a bow that results in a reduction of the force necessary to increase the draw length after the highest level of draw force has been reached. This is characteristic generally associated with, but not restricted to, compound bows.
   2. The maximum let-off on a compound bow shall be measured at a point in the draw cycle after the peak draw weight has been attained. It shall be measured near the end of the draw cycle where the minimum holding force is reached. This point in the draw cycle on a compound bow is known as "the bottom of the valley."
   3. Determination of the percent of let-off: The values of the peak draw force and the let-off force shall be used to calculate the percent of let-off. The peak force is the maximum force obtained during the draw cycle. The let-off force is the lowest force reached following the peak force during a single uninterrupted draw cycle. In all cases, both the highest and lowest force shall be read from a scale during a single and continual pull condition, without relaxation. This technique eliminates the introduction of hysteresis, which can distort the reading.
      1. % Let-off = 100 X [(Peak Draw Force) - (Minimum Holding Force)] / (Peak Draw Force)

[cactusjack]

Im not disputing the fact that they do not consider crossbows huntingbows.  That was a given. Im pointing out that is the only part of Pope and Young they are concerned with. 

[cactusjack]

The comment period for proposed rule change starts in July, goes for 30 days. 

Proposed changes.

Cancel all current Crossbow permits and CHAMP permits- everyone will have to recertify under the new requirements. 

Only medical doctors that specialize in certain fields can sign now.  Orthopedic and DO's were the 2 proposed.  No more chiropractor, nurse practitioner or physician assistants.  

Crossbow permits are only good for 1 year. 

CHAMP are permanent. 

No more magnified optics or red dots on crossbows.  - to which Commissioner Buchanan added that they should " look at all the primitive weapon seasons". Mentioned Garmin gps, red dots and magnified sights being on compound bows.  Then he went on to mention muzzleloaders with optics shooting 500 to 800 meters.  So good job Pope and Young and Az Record Book, playing with matches in the barn. 

No more tripods or bipods for Crossbow permit holders.  The CHAMP permit holders use of them was not really clear.  I don't think this one will fly.   

 

My take away,  had Pope and Young and Az Record Book focused on who certified both Crossbow and CHAMP permits, and had not pulled the Technology thread, it would have approved in May. 

My VA Orthopedic surgeon told me about the program, printed out my permit paperwork and signed it. I wasn't aware of the other issues in both the CHAMP and Crossbow permit groups. 

Most of the people who have legitimate reasons for the permits would have been ok with it.

And yes, the phrase primitive weapon seasons was used.

[BOHNTR]

Quote

Mentioned Garmin gps, red dots and magnified sights being on compound bows.  Then he went on to mention muzzleloaders with optics shooting 500 to 800 meters.  So good job Pope and Young and Az Record Book, playing with matches in the barn.  

I'm not sure that's a bad thing.  

[cactusjack]

Bowhtr, I agree that things have long since passed the point of being primitive.  Get ready for the flood of used Garmin sights, magnified lenses and clarifiers. 

OTC deer tags are the next target. 

[HuntHarder]

Was a matter of time!  Ive enjoyed the heck out of my Garmin sights. When they get banned, back to the pin sights. Other states have already banned them.  No big deal.  Again a step in the right direction.  

[jdown]

About time for all the above! 

[EarlyBronco]

So if someone already has a champ permit they have to go get another one ?