Waterfowl fun over Christmas break and a ? on ammo

[thegunsmith2506]

The boy and I got out in the woods over Christmas break chasing ducks and geese. As usual I didn't take enough pictures but I did snap a few. 

 

Anyone have suggestions for 20ga duck loads? Right now he is shooting 3in #4 Faststeel loads and they aren't working as well as I would like. My son is a pretty good shot and doesn't burn through ammo on sketchy shots so I don't mind spending a little extra on some better ammo. Last weekend he knocked the same duck down 2 times and he still got up and flew off. We watched him go down about 150yds into the trees but never found him. 

[Flatlander]

We’ve had good luck with black cloud

[CouesPursuit]

Great job, Dad! 

Kent Fasteel is good stuff and tough to beat for straight steel. If you stick with any steel, go up to size 2 at least, 1s may be good, BB may not carry enough pellets for the 20g. A box of each, patterned on a board at 40 yards may decide for you.

BB is also unnecessary for anything smaller than fat migrating mallards. 4s don't quite do it unless shooting specificly teal or head shots. I personally use 2s on an average day and lead the bird so much that I miss forward completely or get those pellets in the head. 

One consideration if you are willing to spend a little money, roll your own steel/TSS "duplex" loads. You can turn that 20 into 12g effectiveness or beyond with TSS.

Or lastly, try bismuth off the shelf, more weight in the pellet lends to smaller shot sizes and more pellets in the load. 

Genuinely, those are mergansers and are as bad as a coot for table fare, maybe just keep that in consideration (basically every other species of duck and goose tastes better).

Send me a pm if you want to get into decoying birds, there isn't much better than that!

[HuntHarder]

#4's work well on good decoying birds, but come up short at longer range.  If you have birds that are interested, but not fully committing, #3's in the fast steel was my jam.  If the birds are not committing at all and typically just flying by at 60 yards, #2's or #1's.  As @CouesPursuitsaid tho, doing a quick pattern test at your typical shot distance is a must.  It might shock you to see the dispersion of your shot.  Good luck and keep hammering those merganzers. Someone has to shoot em'. 

[yotebuster]

This is an awesome post!  Glad to see he’s getting after it.  If you’re really wanting to get technical, pattern those 4’s and see what’s up.  A 4 shot steel has more than enough energy to break a wing or neck or skull on any duck out there to 50 yards.  Most guys switch to bigger pellets when they really need to go the other directions.  I shoot 6 and 7 shot steel and bismuth most of the season here in ND.  I’ll drop to 5’s if the wind is really blowing.  Use 3’s and 4’s for geese.   I never go bigger than 3’s for anything.  I’ve watched a 3 shot steel pellet break a wing on a goose at 75+ yards many many times.  Wingshooting is all about one pellet doing the work, if that one pellet has the energy at a given range, then don’t go any bigger as all that does is cut your odds of a pellet finding a home.  You don’t kill ducks and geese with body shots, unless they’re real close, in that case any pellet will work.  If you take some BB’s and 4’s to a patterning board at 40 yards it’ll open your eyes as to how important pattern density is.  I have far far fewer cripples since ive moved to smaller shot.  If i were to offer one piece of advice to him, it would be to take that big fiber bead off the gun.  I take all the beads off all my guns, you need to be looking at the bird not the bead and that big bead will completely block it out.  The old saying is “if you’re seeing the bead you’re aren’t seeing the bird” and I cant agree with that more.  

[brent]

Awesome! Keep it up

For most circumstances over decoys I have settled on Kent 2.75" #4 out of a skeet or IC choke. Jump shooting would be better with a IC or modified choke. These have worked for teal to geese.

If using the 20ga, and don't mind pricy shells, I would find some #5 or 6 bismuths. Before the switch to non toxic for waterfowl, smaller shot sizes were the norm. So don't be scared to go smaller if using a metal heavier than steel. Obviously this has been beat to death on the waterfowl forums and YouTube so you might check there.

[firstcoueswas80]

Guys I follow on YouTube use BOSS stacked loads. If I recall, they are 3" 3 and 5 stack and when they hit mallards, they fall dead. Of course, they are sponsored by them so im sure if they have to put finishing shots in the ducks, they don't show it.

[yotebuster]

12 minutes ago, firstcoueswas80 said:

Guys I follow on YouTube use BOSS stacked loads. If I recall, they are 3" 3 and 5 stack and when they hit mallards, they fall dead. Of course, they are sponsored by them so im sure if they have to put finishing shots in the ducks, they don't show it.

Boss bismuth is what I shoot for 95% of what I do.  #6 out of my 28ga with an extra full choke.  Patterns extremely well and will absolutely crush anything you put the pattern on out to 50 yards.   I have never understood stacked loads.  I think they’re mostly a sales gimmick.  If you ever watch ultra slow footage of a shot column, it strings due to weight and aerodynamic differences in pellets.  Everyone wants a short shot string, even to the point where guys somehow thing a 3.5” vs 2.75” shell will string more or less.  The truth is, that doesn’t matter (well it makes 3/4” difference I guess) what does matter is misshapen pellets or miss sized pellets.  They will string your shot out 15 feet plus at distance.   When you do a stacked load, you’re guaranteeing a long strung out shot string, and costing yourself a lot of pellets with having the larger pellets in there, if the smaller ones will do the job at given distance. 

[yotebuster]

One more tip, especially for sub guages.   Watch Roger’s and Midway in February and march.  They will have some fantastic closeouts on 20 and 28ga bismuth (steel as well if that’s your go to).  I have never paid more then $1.10-1.25 a shell for my bismuth and most of it has been less then $1 a shell.  If you buy steel at retail you will be right in the same price range.   

[CatfishKev]

8 hours ago, thegunsmith2506 said:

The boy and I got out in the woods over Christmas break chasing ducks and geese. As usual I didn't take enough pictures but I did snap a few. 

 

Anyone have suggestions for 20ga duck loads? Right now he is shooting 3in #4 Faststeel loads and they aren't working as well as I would like. My son is a pretty good shot and doesn't burn through ammo on sketchy shots so I don't mind spending a little extra on some better ammo. Last weekend he knocked the same duck down 2 times and he still got up and flew off. We watched him go down about 150yds into the trees but never found him. 

Do you get many geese up there?  I'm told they fly in with the cranes down here at a low percentage but never seen one myself.  

Great job too, that looks super fun!

[thegunsmith2506]

1 hour ago, CatfishKev said:

Do you get many geese up there?  I'm told they fly in with the cranes down here at a low percentage but never seen one myself.  

Great job too, that looks super fun!

We get enough geese to keep us out looking for them. Today we saw about 50 or so with snow. Hopefully they stick around 

[thegunsmith2506]

Thanks everyone! I use to load my own 12ga for predators and patterned everything.  We shot some dove loads before dove season but I had no idea he was going to enjoy jumping ponds this much. I have never patterned steel but I'm going to learn now. I picked up #2s, #1s, and #6 today. We will spend some time getting him set up. 

 

Those mergansars weren't great but trying to keep an 11yo from shooting a legal duck is hard. The mallards and geese were much better. 

[GreyGhost85]

I shot a bunch of ducks and geese in northern nm and southern colorado a couple weeks ago. Had a few different rounds and the black clouds seem to work the best for everyone. The guy we hunted with hunts waterfowl 50+ days a year and swears by black clouds #4 for all around. Apparently they have a different kind of wad that makes the bb’s release quicker rather than coming out in a string. 

[yotebuster]

1 hour ago, GreyGhost85 said:

I shot a bunch of ducks and geese in northern nm and southern colorado a couple weeks ago. Had a few different rounds and the black clouds seem to work the best for everyone. The guy we hunted with hunts waterfowl 50+ days a year and swears by black clouds #4 for all around. Apparently they have a different kind of wad that makes the bb’s release quicker rather than coming out in a string. 

Black cloud is good stuff.  Wish they made the flight control wad without the flight stopper pellets though.   Those things rip the heck out of the meat.  Unnecessary in my opinion since most all waterfowl dies from a broken wing or a head or neck shot.  If they’re close you can body kill them, but if they’re close you don’t need the fancy pellets either.