Bears and Deer

[Rag Horn]

I know that a healthy lion population will take its toll on the local deer population as will an abundance of coyotes. Does a healthy bear population have an effect on the local deer population? Does anyone have any insight into the ecological relationship between these two species?

[fish]

Black bears are oportunstic feeders.

Thier diet primarly consists of soft mass, grass, forbes, and ants ( generally speaking for az)

A bear will take deer if given the chance, but only if the oportunty presents itself and the energy investment is minimal.

Typically they are better suited for investing engery into foraging rather than hunting, so the answer is no- a healthy bear population should not have an effect on the deer population.

 

[newalleye]

Biologically speaking, deer populations should suffer little consequence as the result of a healthy bear population. Bears prey much more opportunistically than lions do and aren't as capable of taking down deer in their prime. They are more apt to feed on the sick, old, young, or already dead. Likewise, much of their diet consists of plant matter and their populations ebb and flow with the ecological effects of drought and hard winters (i.e. food availability). Lions are a whole different story..

 

Just my 2 cents.

[TAM]

Perhaps bears don't hunt down many adult deer, but they sure love to eat fawns.

[CouesWhitetail]

Perhaps bears don't hunt down many adult deer, but they sure love to eat fawns.

 

 

+1 deer fawns and elk calves

[Will K]

Bears are really pretty fast. Fawns, Elk calves & cow calves dont have a chance period.

[.270]

contrary to what most folks think, bears don't eat a lotta meat. even when they do make a kill, they ain't actually killing it for the meat. they might eat a little right then, but very little. then they leave it for a few days and come back and roll it around lick all the maggots off it and leave and come back when it has more maggots on it. i've seen em do this a buncha times. sometimes they will eat a lotta of the carcas, but most of the time they act like the maggots are the prize. and they are fast. they can tear up calves of alll kinds. i don't think i've seen where i thought one killed a fawn. i'm sure they do, but never have seen one. a fawn won't grow many maggots. Lark.

[deernut]

I agree with the comments so far. Black bears will kill fawns and will even try to find them, but they don't seem to be effective enough to affect the deer recruitment over a large area. Like everything in nature, there are exception and I have seen some cases where bears are able to kill a quite a few fawns in one local area, but again, based on what I have seen, they are not much of a factor in reducing fawn recruitment. The story below is about my bear hunt in the Chiricahuas in 1997 where I went back and killed a bear that I witnessed killing a fawn (don't mess with Deernut's fawns). It was published in the NRA's Hunter Magazine in their "Member Hunts" section. (FYI, I have started a new Deernut Blog that some of you may be interested in. Not sure I have time to keep up with it, but it may be interesting if I can www.deernut.wordpress.com)

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On a warm August afternoon I was hiking in the beautiful Chiricahua Mountains along the borders with Mexico and New Mexico. During this particular trip I was accompanied by retired wildlife researcher Jerry Day and we were looking for deer/vegetation research plots located back in the rugged canyons of this mountain range. Jerry had not visited these research plots in the 40 years since he completed his research on the relationships between high deer populations and important forage plants. After a few hours of trying to keep up with my 70-year-old companion, we located the most inaccessible study plot and sat to rest. Jerry remarked that the hills had become steeper in the intervening years - either by perception or recent geologic activity.

 

Not long into our rest, we heard the bleating distress call of a Coues white-tailed deer fawn across the canyon. After a short search with binoculars, we located the fawn but only by the wild flapping wings of the hungry golden eagle which was attached, via sharp talons, to its back. The fawn was trying to seek cover in the scattered oak brush but the eagle's flapping wings slowed his progress. As we watched this remarkable scene, it was obvious the eagle would make quick work of the fawn and we would witness an event few people have the opportunity to see. Suddenly, the large bird of prey flew away and we wondered what would make this eagle abandon such a sure meal.

 

We did not wonder long, for the eagle was almost immediately replaced by a young black bear who had come running to the sound of the fawn's distress. The fawn had hid amongst the brush and the bear simply waited for some direction. It soon came with a loud bleat from the nearly scrub oak. The bear charged immediately for the sound; there was no question what he was there for. After a few minutes of cat and mouse, or rather bear and fawn, the fawn succumbed to the inevitable and the bear slept well with a full stomach that night.

 

A month later the bear season in that mountain range opened. I was confident because I knew there was a bear in that area that associated the sound of a fawn with a dinner bell. The opening weekend of bear season I went back into the same area where I saw the bear kill the fawn. After teaching a wildlife class at the University of Arizona, I left Tucson Friday evening and arrived at the end of the road in the Chiricahua Mountains at midnight. I parked my truck and strapped on my backpack already loaded with all the gear I thought I’d need to bring back a bear. I headed into the mountains by moonlight and set up a camp 1 mile from the nearest road, high on a ridge top.

 

Saturday morning I left camp and hiked along the ridge, stopping at intervals to set up and call like a fawn in distress with a predator call. I was fully camouflaged and my fawn imitation was apparently right on the mark, because a few white-tailed does walked up to within 10 yards of me looking very agitated and making the soft buzzing noise they use to locate their fawns at close range.

 

At noon, I sat under an oak tree at the end of the ridge to eat lunch and shortly after sitting down I saw a bear look at me from behind a clump of tall grass from a mere 6 yards away. I was stunned at this unexpected, although not uninvited, lunch guest. He immediately saw his error (or my rifle) and backed up quickly. I sat in disbelief for a second and tried to recount what I ate and if it could cause such hallucinations. I stood up with my rifle and the bear was still standing 10 yards away looking at me. I realized then that he was a very small yearling so I lowered my rifle and he scampered down the slope.

 

Mid-afternoon that day, I was calling from the next high ridge overlooking a large canyon and saw a bear one-half mile down canyon swimming across a small pond. At that distance, I was not sure if he heard my calling or if I happened to spy him before he was within hearing range. He stopped on the near side of the pond and shook off. I screamed like a fawn with the call and he immediately broke into a run at full speed towards me! It took a while for him to cover all that ground so I kept calling to keep him on track. Bears really look much larger when you are on the ground and they are running full speed at you -- you start to wonder if even your high-powered rifle is enough for this sudden incarnation of Nature's wrath. As he approached I stopped calling because I didn’t care for him to know my exact location. When he closed the distance to 25 yards, I dropped him in his tracks (that's close enough, thank you).

 

I quickly went to work skinning the beast where he lay. There were no trees of suitable size to hang him within the distance I could drag him alone. I first skinned back the hide on one side and boned all meat off that side, and then repeated the procedure on the other side. After the outside meat was boned, the animal was dressed to retrieve the tenderloins. Since it would take more than one trip to get meat, hide, and camp gear out to the truck, all meat was placed into cheesecloth meat bags and secured high in an oak tree 100 yards away. The head and hide were strapped to the daypack and brought back to my ridge top camp. The camp was hastily disassembled and repacked onto the pack frame and then the bear head and hide was added and tied down securely.

 

I packed (staggered) the head/hide and camp gear out that night (1 mile of very rugged terrain), slept in my truck through a terrible storm. The next morning I left the truck at first light with an empty pack frame and full canteen, heading back to my secluded cache of meat hung high in the oak tree. The cool rain during the night kept the meat chilled. I was thankful for that rain but not the torrential downpour that hammered me when I was halfway out of the mountains with the meat on my back. I took one of those shortcuts that are never shorter, thinking I could cut right over the last ridge instead of contouring around. The backside of the ridge was almost too steep to negotiate with my meat-laden pack and consisted of a field of jumbled granite. I could hardly walk with the rain pelting me hard, but the sharp crackle of the lightning so close to my packframe helped quicken my pace off the ridge top.

 

Besides a freezer full of meat and a beautiful rug, I also came home with chigger bites, sunburn, a twisted ankle, blisters on hands and feet, bruised knee, and aches in muscles I didn't even know I had. My fellow biologists said they had never seen a deer biologist go through so much trouble to avenge the loss of one fawn.

 

[Rag Horn]

Nice write up thanks for sharing. It sure will give a guy the itch to do some bear calling. Thanks to all for the info.

[CouesWhitetail]

Awesome story Jim!!! What an adventure!

[Guest Bandido]

I saw a bear eating a small doe once. Although she was dying - she was still alive. Gruesome sight. I had to leave. A bear has to be a bear and a deer has to be a deer. Some eat and some get eaten (better them than me).

[Ernesto C]

I bet a bobcat will kill more fawns than a bear.

[hoghntr]

I know this... I have not been the same hunter since the first time i saw a bear run full speed. If these things eat mostly things with no heart beat, no legs, or more than 4 legs why did God make them so darn fast???

[bobbyo]

Deernut is keeping it a secret, but deer are murder on Bears! Deer will try to kill Bears at every opportunity. Ever see a deer at full speed? They are amazingly fast and could easily run down a bear. I really feel bad for the poor bears they don't really have a chance with all those killer Deer out there. Don't believe me? Go out in the woods and look. You will see 100-200 300 deer before you might catch a glimpse of a bear. No wonder a bear will try to kill a fawn before they turn into killers. Deer are definitely winning the war. Pity the Bear.

Mr. Empirical

 

[deernut]

That's why I support the Right to Arm Bears.

 

JIM