CouesWhitetail Report post Posted October 22, 2012 Scott Adams uses Goats. Try and get ahold of him. If your just looking for help to pack gear I would say they are your best bet. My uncle uses them to pack his camp deep into the uenta mountains in Utah. He has a couple that can pack more gear then me. If your looking to pack meat a mule or horse is the way to go. Be very careful buying Mules. A good one is good but a bad one is very bad. And you can not change many mules with the attitude adjustment like you can a horse. But if you can find a good mule it will take you anyplace you point it. Scott used to use goats, but hasn't in a many years. I wish he still did (since I usually am hunting with him!)! He loved them, and I bet he might get more now that he has some space around his new house. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ScottAdams Report post Posted October 23, 2012 I had goats for about 8 years. I got rid of them about 4 years ago when I started building my house and didn't have time to properly take care of them. They were pretty handy to have. They did really well on the trail and were a lot of fun to hike with. I could walk right up on deer with them. The deer would really stare hard at them and didn't seem spooked by me. I got mine from some folks in Demming, NM. You can get goats pretty cheap when they're young but they don't get really strong until they 4 or 5 years old. I used only wethers with horns except one LaMancha that had been polled before I got him. There was a place outside of Tucson that had some LaManchas. I prefered the Boer crosses. Those Boers are stout but short-legged, when crossed with a longer legged goat I got some really good goats. I don't have any photos on this computer but I'll post some tomorrow. Amanda I might have to get some more goats, I still have the crossbuck saddles and paniers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snapshot Report post Posted October 23, 2012 Do you have to use lead ropes, or do they just follow you? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GotBowAz Report post Posted October 23, 2012 Scott, please do post your pic's if you can. I would love to see them. Also would love to hear any other experiences you had with them. If you were to purchase goats today where would you go, how old would you get them, how much would you pay for them and how many of them would you get? In other words is there a number of goats you believe is optimum for packing camps, animals etc. etc.. Also above and beyond buying the goats how much would I expect the cross back saddles, blankets and panniers set me back per goat? Would you recommend hard or soft panniers and why? Thanks for your time. GBA Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
southernxpress Report post Posted October 23, 2012 I've got two babies I don't have room to keep that I need to get rid of... I've already put the saddles and empty panniers on them just to get them use to it. They are Alpine/Boer crosses.. mom is Alpine which I have.. the dad I never saw. I use the mom for packing too. I was going to post a pic.. but I don't see where to do it from my phone.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ScottAdams Report post Posted October 23, 2012 Here's a writeup I did about 8 years ago on packgoats and a some photos from days gone by. "Excuse me, but did you say "Packgoats"?" I slowly worked my way up the trail toward the switchback. Upon arriving, I stopped and looked down the trail behind me. There, coming steadily up the trail in single file were 3 goats loaded down with saddles and panniers. I was on a seven-mile hunting trip into a remote area of SE Arizona. My personal pack weighed in at about 20 lbs. The goats were hauling the rest, Kifaru tipi, sleeping bag, sleeping pads, stove, food, water, tripods, binoculars, coffee pot, folding chair, lantern, etc. Anytime I mention packgoats someone invariably asks; “Did you say pack goats?” Goats have actually been used as beasts of burden for thousands of years, and I’ve been told that in places such as Nepal and Tibet they are still used as such. The domestic goat is about as close to the dog, mans-best-friend, as you can get. They bond to you much in the same way a dog does. Goats are not hard to deal with, especially in comparison to traditional pack animals (i.e. horses, mules). They are small enough that one can "control" them. They have a low impact on the environment, even their tracks and droppings are difficult to tell from the native wildlife. They don't take any special training, and the first time you strap a saddle to them they seem to take to it like a duck to water. I'll load anywhere from 20 to 50 lbs. per goat, depending on the terrain I'll be hiking. They will haul about 25% of their body weight (my three goats all weigh around 200 lbs). Goats don’t require any special feed. I feed mine the “stemmy” type hay that horses don’t care for. I don’t use a trailer to haul them; they just ride in the back of the truck and do just fine. When on a pack trip I don't haul feed or water for the goats. They browse on whatever is available although I may carry them a snack or two. I’ve read that when out hiking a goat's body will shift into a "desert" mode and their bodies will actually recycle their urine. I've never been out more than two nights at a time so far, but have yet to have a goat take more than a sip when on a hike even when I tried to water them. I've read where they can go up to 3 days without drinking depending on the moisture content of their feed. Most of my equipment is homemade. I was given one saddle and two sets of panniers. From that a friend of mine built 9 saddles with pannier sets for all of them. You can buy commercial cross-buck saddles and panniers. A typical equipment setup will run about $150-$250 per goat. What kind of goat should you use for packing? I would avoid the Nubians. While they are personable, they usually don’t make real good packers. But just about any goat will pack including the pygmies. Of course you will want a big strong goat for packing. I have 5 goats and 3 are good packers. The other 2 are really pets, they didn't cut it, and although they will pack they tend to tire easily. Of my three good packers two are LaMancha crosses and one of those is a LaMancha/Sannen cross. My best packer as far as strength, stamina and overall muscle conformation, is a Boer crossed with some Spanish mixture. He's a really strong good-looking goat and a tireless packer. I will be looking for some more of the Boer crosses for my next generation of packers. Goats do well on extended hikes but it does depend on the terrain, weight of the load and the physical condition of the goat. You can't let a goat sit in a corral for six months and then strap a pack to him and expect him to perform like a champ on a 5 or 6 mile hike. They do require some conditioning. I keep my goats over at a friend’s place. He fenced in a cliff behind his house and the goats climb around on the rocks and stay in fair shape although they are a little on the heavy side. I've had my goats on a few long hikes. On the longest we went 7 miles in, hunted deer for 2 days and then hiked 7 miles out. Each goat had about 25 lbs. The goats were tired but they did well. As for handling steep, rocky terrain where no trails exist? That's where the packgoat really excels! Goats are mountain animals and handle the rocks and steepness better than I do with a loaded pack. Several months ago I took the goats on a brutally steep and rough overnight hike. In one area I had to use both hands to climb up a steep slope; the goats with saddles and loaded panniers just dug in bounded up the hill like bighorn sheep, nearly running me over in the process! Rockslides don't seem to bother them a bit, and in areas with big boulders, they just bounce from one to the next. As a general rule if you can hike there with a pack on, so can they. Neutered billies, called wethers, are the preferred sex and with a little searching one should be able to find a mature wether. There are some outfits that specifically breed for packers. I purchased all my goats very young and didn’t pay more than $50 for any of them. One of my better packers was actually given to me and my best packer was purchased for $35. At three years of age the goats can carry full loads and are good for another 8 years or so. An Internet search for “packgoat” will bring up several websites where you can get more information on goats and supplies. As I continue to age it seems the packs get a little heavier and the trails a little longer and steeper. I’m just now starting to feel the effects of years of hunting and hiking on my back and knees. The packgoats are certainly a welcome addition to my "hunting gear", and the more weight the goats carry the less I have to carry. It makes for a much more enjoyable outing, which after all is the real reason we spend time in the outdoors to begin with. Training the young ones. This goat pictured below was my best packer. He was a mixture of Boer and I don't know what else. He was a real beast on the trail. I do have leadropes that I used but they will just naturally follow you without having to be led. I would tie them off at camp and when I would glass. I have soft paniers with plastic inserts (Trash cans). Packgoats.doc Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GotBowAz Report post Posted October 23, 2012 southernxpress, sent you a PM. Scott, thank you so much for the pictures and that incredible write up. I think I'm sold. Now to find breeders or pack goats locally. New Mexico isn't that far to get good pack goats. Do you know of any breeders here for the Boer's you mentioned? GBA Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
COUESAZ Report post Posted October 23, 2012 Oh my goodness has it been that long ago when Scott had fiats and wrote that story. No wonder I'm 40 years old now. The years have flown by. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Non-Typical Solutions Report post Posted October 23, 2012 That is some pretty awesome stuff there Scott, I have done several trips using my brothers mules and thoroughly enjoyed it. I like the ride in and out. Maybe a combo, mule to ride and goats to pack. That is great..............thanks for sharing your packing info.................. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CouesWhitetail Report post Posted October 23, 2012 Man, great write up and info Scott! I really hope someday we get to hunt with goats! They look fun, makes me want to get some, but I don't have room to keep them....If you decide to get some Scott, I will help with the cost.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ScottAdams Report post Posted October 23, 2012 Ok, You might have to help me convince Ronda. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
200"mulie Report post Posted October 23, 2012 http://www.llama.org/packing_llama.htm Always wanted to try llamas, they can scale rough terrain and can see a lot beter than you can .... but i wouldn't take one in the desert.... dont think it would bode well. Only in the high mountains. The goats do look cute lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Outdoor Writer Report post Posted October 23, 2012 Scott, Before I got to this page, I was thinking of posting the article I wrote on you and your goats quite a few years back. BUT...I'm in Mazatlan. Mex. right now and remembered I don't have the article on my laptop. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ScottAdams Report post Posted October 24, 2012 Post it when you get back Tony. I'd like to read it again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ForkHorn Report post Posted October 24, 2012 Please do post it if you don't mind . This is a great thread. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
